XenForo 2.0 Discussion

[Neutral Singh]

I don't mind feedback being blunt, as long as you don't mind me being similarly so.

Such a comparison is extremely short sighted and partly inaccurate.

1. Development started in 2009, not 2010.
2. The lawsuit kicked in about 18 months after development started, and by the time it reared its head, the software was just approaching Beta 1 so was practically finished.
3. XenForo 1.0.0 was released just under two years after development began.
4. That means it took two years to develop XenForo 1.0.0 vs the coming up to three years to develop XenForo 2.0.0.

So, how has it taken longer for three developers to develop XenForo 2.0.0 vs. the two developers it took to develop XenForo 1.0.0? Most people can appreciate and understand...

Quite simply, in 2009-2010, Mike and Kier were developing XenForo 1.0.0, whereas Mike, Kier and I are rewriting/developing:

• XenForo 1.5.14
• XenForo Resource Manager 1.2.5
• XenForo Media Gallery 1.1.13
• XenForo Enhanced Search 1.1.7
• A load of new features for XenForo 2.0 and all of the above

While we're doing that monumental task, we're also supporting and maintaining all of the above. We're also fielding and spending time that should be spent developing answering questions such as this.

In the middle of the three years we're talking about, Mike and I took pretty much 4-6 months off developing XenForo 2.0.0 so we could release XenForo 1.5.0. Amongst all of this, we're still answering tickets, support questions on the forum, writing documentation for things and doing our best to keep people informed of where we are.

If you ever get the opportunity, install XenForo 1.0.0 some time and compare it side by side to XenForo 1.5.13. XenForo 1.0.0 was a XenForo that only had a fraction of the support commitments, a fraction of the functionality, a fraction (basically none) additional products to support. No responsive design. In fact, if you look through the Have You Seen forum from pages 1-4 you will see all of these familiar looking features that we're using extensively now that probably weren't even conceived in that initial 2 year development period. And when you're developing a product from scratch you have basically no customer expectations to meet, there's room to take an iterative approach to things and there's just basically no barriers in front of you.

We've held our hands up to the fact that the announcement was perhaps a bit early, and in an ideal world we'd definitely like to be further forward now than we are. But when you actually think about the absolute mammoth task that we've had in front of us, 3 years is really no time at all.

Great explanation! And i can wait for as long as it would take to make it a Gold release!

However, the bottom line is you guys, the developers, are over burdened and need more dedicated full-time paid people in your support staff team, so that you guys can focus solely on the development of the scrips without worrying too much about writing manuals, support tickets and other stuff.

 

[DieselMinded]

take your time and do it right you guys got a lot of the market share doing what you do. just keep doing it.

i would like to see a new forum called xf 2.0 wish list

give us a place to help, were in this together

 

[Hoolio]

....the bottom line is you guys, the developers, are over burdened and need more dedicated full-time paid people in your support staff team, so that you guys can focus solely on the development of the scrips without worrying too much about writing manuals, support tickets and other stuff.

Yeah it would be a bummer if there was only a few days a week spent on XF 2 dev

 

[Chris D]

However, the bottom line is you guys, the developers, are over burdened and need more dedicated full-time paid people in your support staff team, so that you guys can focus solely on the development of the scrips without worrying too much about writing manuals, support tickets and other stuff.

Yeah it would be a bummer if there was only a few days a week spent on XF 2 dev

Actually, working on support tickets and answering queries on the forum is entirely a personal choice. "A few days a week"? At the minimum, 5 days a week are spent on XF2 development. It's often a good break / change of scenery doing support related stuff.

 

[Hoolio]

Fantastic! Our XF 2 build continues on.

 

[Jake B.]

5 days a week are spent on XF2 development.

only 5? I expected at least 9 days a week.

 

[Wildcat Media]

Add-on developers and style designers are already working on 2.0 versions (which is why we've had the developer preview to start with...) and it's going to ultimately be within their interests to turn that around as soon as possible.

A note to the add-on and style designers: please make some sort of note in your current product that you are working on a version for 2.0. This lets me know if the product has been abandoned or not, and makes a big difference in whether or not I would purchase it now and then upgrade when it's ready, or find an alternative which is being readied for 2.0.

Buying add-ons adds up. Being stuck with dead, abandoned add-ons is something none of us forum owners want to deal with. True, we can simply remove them from the forum, but forum users (you know, the people we actually host the forums for, to visit and enjoy daily) come to depend on them.

 

[Bionic Rooster]

only 5? I expected at least 9 days a week.

According to the Beatles there are only 8 days a week.

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[Reflect]

Need to take a good hard look at the license agreement for react.js.

http://react-etc.net/entry/your-license-to-use-react-js-can-be-revoked-if-you-compete-with-facebook

With a clause like that in the licensing agreement, there's no way I'd want to use it.

Lurker here. No trolling or flames intended.

FYI The React licensing has been clarified since this post. Please see:

http://react-etc.net/entry/react-patents-facebook-license-faq-adoption-by-apple-and-microsoft

So.. I have a very serious question. I'm not a React fanboy, I just want to make the right decision for the future of my community. I run a 500k member forum (vB), and have been patiently waiting for XF2 to arrive so I can make the switch. Very excited about it getting released, and moving over to XF2.

As the years have rolled by in XF2's 3 year long development, we've all seen a major shift towards websites' UIs becoming faster and more desktop like, with React and Angular as example JS frameworks. Low latency UI is going to be a major driver behind web development in the coming years and I think any website that doesn't see this coming will be left behind.

I have done quite a bit of searching on this forum and haven't found a clear clarification of XF's plans to integrate this low latency UI revolution. I can see that XF2 does in fact have various client-side loading going on. So two questions if I may ask:

1) What does XF2 currently do to speed up the interface in terms of client side JS?
2) Does the XF2 framework, started 3 years ago, have integration of React/Angular/(etc?) as part of it's future, or will we be stuck with a high latency client-server model for the next 5 years before XF3 comes around?

Thank you very much, your replies will help guide my decision to wait for XF2 or keep my eye out for another platform that will leverage these new UI frameworks.

 

[Chris D]

There are no current plans to change JS framework from jQuery but of course we'll always look to use what we feel is the best fit for our product.

I particularly have an interest in React so it would certainly be a contender.

 

[Reflect]

Thanks very much for your reply Chris. I appreciate it! Great to hear you are on the same page.

 

[Digital Doctor]

A note to the add-on and style designers: please make some sort of note in your current product that you are working on a version for 2.0. This lets me know if the product has been abandoned or not, and makes a big difference in whether or not I would purchase it now and then upgrade when it's ready, or find an alternative which is being readied for 2.0.

Like a trivial update to a 1.x addon that has a title .... working on a 2.0 version.

 

[sheel]

@ Reflect etc.: Don't be deceived by the hype all major JS stuff seems to get these days.
React can greatly improve things ... for certain types of sites, certain actions on it, etc.etc. . For some others, it's just horrible bloat.

It's not a magic bullet.

And even their official website stopped promising increased speed some time ago.

 

[Sean James]

Cant wait, good work XenForo!

 

[Lucas]

Loving every part of XF2!

 

[jmurrayhead]

I find myself wondering if the reason why XF2 looks the way it does is because that plays better on a phone screen, and if the focus is on that. I realize mobile is certainly a big trend and hugely significant in society in general, but personally the last thing I would want to do in terms of forums is use them by phone. I'm a desktop guy. Give me a nice big keyboard to do real typing and a normal size screen. Or is that not it?

What's wrong with the way it looks on desktop?

 

[Mr Lucky]

I find myself wondering if the reason why XF2 looks the way it does is because that plays better on a phone screen, and if the focus is on that. I realize mobile is certainly a big trend and hugely significant in society in general, but personally the last thing I would want to do in terms of forums is use them by phone. I'm a desktop guy. Give me a nice big keyboard to do real typing and a normal size screen. Or is that not it?

I think there is some small amount of compromise, but as it is so easy with CSS to programme a style that suits any screen size, it needn't be too much of a compromise. I like the xf2 style on both mobile and desktop.

I think the only area of compromise I dislike is that the alerts need to clicked on (as opposed to hovering) before cancelling, which I was told is because of mobile design being consistent on desktop. Which I really don't get. But apart from that I think it's ll good, a very nice clean and easily customisable style.

 

[Chris D]

Not really consistent with just a mobile UI in general. You'd be hard pushed these days to find hover to activate menus anywhere in any software. If you broaden that to even desktop OS' and apps then click to activate is pretty much universally the expected behaviour.

 

[Mr Lucky]

. You'd be hard pushed these days to find hover to activate menus anywhere in any software.

I wasn't that hard pushed to find this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk

 

[Forsaken]

I wasn't that hard pushed to find this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk

Amazon offers a completely different experience on mobile, as does every ecommerce platform.

Because consistent user experience is a huge thing in the checkout process, Amazon and other companies cannot update their system to more modern trends to the same degree as other niches. If they would do so, they would frustrate people who do not do well with changes.