XenForo 2.0 Discussion

[Pierce]

Even the NSA.

Haha yeah guess that's why I used it.

 

[imno007]

I got an email this morning from IPB announcing Invision Community 4.2 (beta), which I have to admit has some pretty cool features. I figure this is good news for all of you looking for more social media integration/features with XF, because I feel pretty confident that XF will next be setting its sights on keeping up with the competition.

 

[Bionic Rooster]

I figure this is good news for all of you looking for more social media integration/features with XF, because I feel pretty confident that XF will next be setting its sights on keeping up with the competition.

In my opinion and from my understanding of what defines "social media" a forum platform is in fact in and of itself a "social media" platform.
XF already provides the following feature and to assume it doesn't and suggest it needs integration/features in addition to what it already provides is bloat.

Social media are computer-mediated technologies that facilitate the creation and sharing of information, ideas, career interests and other forms of expression via virtual communities and networks. ... Social media are interactive Web 2.0 Internet-based applications.

 

[imno007]

In my opinion and from my understanding of what defines "social media" a forum platform is in fact in and of itself a "social media" platform.
XF already provides the following feature and to assume it doesn't and suggest it needs integration/features in addition to what it already provides is bloat.

I think it safe to say that I was referring to its popular or "colloquial" usage here. Perhaps unfortunately many people today tend to think of "social media" as being synonymous with Facebook and Twitter and Pinterest, etc. I feel pretty confident that my target audience in this case had no problem understanding my message.

 

[Bionic Rooster]

I feel pretty confident that my target audience in this case had no problem understanding my message.

Unless you identify specifically who the individuals are that are your "target audience" is here its safe to say anyone who reads this is the "target audience"
People tend to put everything into one basket or category such as "social media" and tend to deny or ignore that the platform they are asking to have this integrated into is already a social media tool. It's like people always asking for CMS (Content Management System) to be integrated into XF when XF as it is manages content.

 

[imno007]

Unless you identify specifically who the individuals are that are your "target audience" is here its safe to say anyone who reads this is the "target audience"
People tend to put everything into one basket or category such as "social media" and tend to deny or ignore that the platform they are asking to have this integrated into is already a social media tool. It's like people always asking for CMS (Content Management System) to be integrated into XF when XF as it is manages content.

The target audience is, as I said, "all of you looking for more social media integration/features with XF." I think it reasonable to assume that one can deduce from that that it means anyone looking for more social media features such as those found on Facebook - considering all the people in this thread doing comparisons between XF and Facebook and Twitter, etc. Let me be very specific and rephrase my original sentence so this does't turn into an argument over semantics, where one side pretends he didn't/doesn't understand what I was talking about for the sake of proving a point: "I figure this is good news for all of you looking for more social media (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) integration/features with XF because I feel pretty confident that XF will next be setting its sights on keeping up with the competition."

 

[RobinHood]

People tend to put everything into one basket or category such as "social media" and tend to deny or ignore that the platform they are asking to have this integrated into is already a social media tool. It's like people always asking for CMS (Content Management System) to be integrated into XF when XF as it is manages content.

Sure it's a social media tool, but it's also a community platform. The big social media sites are types of community platform, forums are a type of community platform, they all have slightly different approaches and takes on the matter, but the fact is they are collections of tools and features that bring people together to communicate and interact with each other. That's different from comparing it to a curated content management system.

XF already provides the following feature and to assume it doesn't and suggest it needs integration/features in addition to what it already provides is bloat.

Yeah, lets not add any new features because the product is perfect and to do so would be bloat

What do you want out of XF2 if you don't want new features?


I think some of the new features in IPS look great, particularly clubs. There are some great tools to help better foster and build community, particularly local community.

It's actually quite refreshing to see some cool stock features coming from a competitor. Competition is great.

I can't wait to see what XF are able to do to complete and start ramping up the release of their own new features once they've finished all the behind the scenes legwork on XF2. Bring it on

 

[imno007]

Yeah, lets not add any new features because the product is perfect and to do so would be bloat

What do you want out of XF2 if you don't want new features?


I think some of the new features in IPS look great, particularly clubs. There are some great tools to help better foster and build community, particularly local community.

It's actually quite refreshing to see some cool stock features coming from a competitor. Competition is great.

I can't wait to see what XF are able to do to complete and start ramping up the release of their own new features once they've finished all the behind the scenes legwork on XF2. Bring it on

Yeah, it's a bit like having a board of directors and shareholders to answer to - a software has to be continually developed and improved on to stay relevant and increase profits or it will eventually lose out to the competition. It might even be that bloat is inevitable in the long run, but hopefully that will be many years off for XF. I imagine that will be mitigated over the next several years by more official addon development.

And I really like those Clubs too!

 

[Aivaras]

What do you want out of XF2 if you don't want new features?

1. Sustainability and stability in an environment that is all too rapidly changing. In a world like ours it takes a lot of running to stay in one place (home).

2. Development of the parts of the software that are underdeveloped.

The most powerful feature of the software is it's operator. No software can provide that.

 

[TPerry]

I think some of the new features in IPS look great

But... and this is a BIG BUT... you did NOT see those features in 4.0 of IPS. It's been a long road (and about 2 1/2 years) to get there. So, having the expectation of them being in XF 2.0 is a tad premature considering it's a major rewrite.

 

[RobinHood]

But... and this is a BIG BUT... you did NOT see those features in 4.0 of IPS.

I'm aware of that, I'm also aware that IPS seems to have lots of other issues that XF doesn't.

I do try to be considerate of the fact that it must be incredibly tough for the XF team to be working for so long and hard on parts of the software that the vast majority of us will never see or fully understand and appreciate.

I know none of those IPS features are going to be in 2.0, they xf team have been pretty clear about what will or won't be at this point. And I'm not even expecting any of the IPS features listed to be in XF 2.X.

What I am hoping for, is that once 2.0 is out and they've done all the back end groundwork they want to do, the XF team can get into some kind of rhythm again for improving existing features and adding new ones on some sort of consistent basis.

There's been quite a few black holes in the XF timeline where it's felt like things have been stagnant for one reason or another.

It's encouraging to read how excited some of the developers are about XF2 on the demo forum.

It's encouraging they now have 50% more dev power now Chris is on the team.

It's also good to see some great ideas coming from a competitor and actually shipping right now. It benefits no one to only have dying competition like vb. Otherwise where's the extra pressure to make the product even better?

Hopefully the XF team and the 3rd party XF devs can take inspiration from the best of these new features and let it influence the direction they take to make the XF ecosystem even better and push forward the forum industry as a whole.

 

[Jake B.]

But... and this is a BIG BUT... you did NOT see those features in 4.0 of IPS. It's been a long road (and about 2 1/2 years) to get there. So, having the expectation of them being in XF 2.0 is a tad premature considering it's a major rewrite.

I think a lot of it comes down to XF2 being announced almost 3 years ago. That said, I think it'd be a terrible idea if they tried to add in all of these extra major features on 2.0.0, just look how that went for IPS with the 4.0 release

 

[StarArmy]

There's also another layer here that shows me how the software needs to catch up to how people "expect to use it".

I swear the more time that passes, the more frequently I get asked by people how to create a thread on the forum, quite a bunch of people that aren't used to forums so I get this idea of what are the frequent struggles for new people to find a forum welcoming and friendly to get used to.

Then after quite the feedback, this small-big feature to create a thread from the homepage appears on xF 2.0.

What if we add a "Quick reply" to actual topic list (view forum) pages that is a fast way to create new topics (threads)? Making the "here's where you type stuff" area super obvious could encourage participation.

 

[TPerry]

I think a lot of it comes down to XF2 being announced almost 3 years ago. That said, I think it'd be a terrible idea if they tried to add in all of these extra major features on 2.0.0, just look how that went for IPS with the 4.0 release

Yeah, the early announcement was probably a bad mis-step for it. They should have already had started the core coding before announcing it. It has led to some higher expectations than what they were wanting to do.

 

[Chris D]

They should have already had started the core coding before announcing it.

We did...

 

[Gamorreaner]

Yeah, the early announcement was probably a bad mis-step for it. They should have already had started the core coding before announcing it. It has led to some higher expectations than what they were wanting to do.

When you shift development to a new product the development of the old will necessarily slow down, also the focus of what things you will add to the old one and which not. So telling their customers that they were already working on the new product wasn't wrong.

 

[jmurrayhead]

Kier was clearly beavering away on XF2 back in 2015.

Fear not, I am still here and all is well. I'm beavering away on XF2 primarily, while Mike and Chris are hard at work bringing you 1.5.

 

[xenfans]

I'm aware of that, I'm also aware that IPS seems to have lots of other issues that XF doesn't.

I do try to be considerate of the fact that it must be incredibly tough for the XF team to be working for so long and hard on parts of the software that the vast majority of us will never see or fully understand and appreciate.

I know none of those IPS features are going to be in 2.0, they xf team have been pretty clear about what will or won't be at this point. And I'm not even expecting any of the IPS features listed to be in XF 2.X.

What I am hoping for, is that once 2.0 is out and they've done all the back end groundwork they want to do, the XF team can get into some kind of rhythm again for improving existing features and adding new ones on some sort of consistent basis.

There's been quite a few black holes in the XF timeline where it's felt like things have been stagnant for one reason or another.

It's encouraging to read how excited some of the developers are about XF2 on the demo forum.

It's encouraging they now have 50% more dev power now Chris is on the team.

It's also good to see some great ideas coming from a competitor and actually shipping right now. It benefits no one to only have dying competition like vb. Otherwise where's the extra pressure to make the product even better?

Hopefully the XF team and the 3rd party XF devs can take inspiration from the best of these new features and let it influence the direction they take to make the XF ecosystem even better and push forward the forum industry as a whole.

I am confident that what xf2 is on the demo site is basically what it will be feature wise. extras now are the GUI web interface to plugins, themes and installer/upgrade and importer.

Don't expect anything surprising beyond this point, i've tried asking around but all i got in the last 3 months was that this is basically it, .. nothing planned.

Fingers crossed 2.1 will jump on this, and quick.
And then 2.2 again and 2.3 again!

It's 2018 by the time we upgrade our sites to 2.0, if we do so (can't really see a lot of benefits over 1.5 at this point to be honest)
and investing money in a modern forum solution that helps build a community, keep those users, and improve user engagement .. giving it a respectable place within other "user interactive communities" like social networks, etc .. .. sigh, even while i am typing this, i already know it's not going to happen.

 

[xenfans]

We did...

It's just surprising that in 2010 it took a certain period of time after kier/mike left to build a whole product from the ground up (and that is while dealing with a lawsuit), but it has already taken years to get version 2 into a developer beta. But I know, .. ppl always hate me for my blunt opinions .. i am just thinking about myself and the sites i help admin and run .. we want to move forward and build communities, not feel stagnated on old feature sets from 2010 and paying people hundreds of dollars for custom dev work and plugins to just get something creative done with thread's media or the way a forum list is displayed. And i guess i am just a tad bitter, because it's been the same with ipb, vb, and xenforo, when you ask for features, that instead of feeling suggestions we push forward are embraced that they get push back first ..

Let's rewrite the core engine first, then maybe in two years we get new features .. and then wait another year for those features to be complete ..

I will stop rambling, i know it's not welcome here.. It's only our sites we put real money in..

 

[Chris D]

I don't mind feedback being blunt, as long as you don't mind me being similarly so.

Such a comparison is extremely short sighted and partly inaccurate.

1. Development started in 2009, not 2010.
2. The lawsuit kicked in about 18 months after development started, and by the time it reared its head, the software was just approaching Beta 1 so was practically finished.
3. XenForo 1.0.0 was released just under two years after development began.
4. That means it took two years to develop XenForo 1.0.0 vs the coming up to three years to develop XenForo 2.0.0.

So, how has it taken longer for three developers to develop XenForo 2.0.0 vs. the two developers it took to develop XenForo 1.0.0? Most people can appreciate and understand...

Quite simply, in 2009-2010, Mike and Kier were developing XenForo 1.0.0, whereas Mike, Kier and I are rewriting/developing:

• XenForo 1.5.14
• XenForo Resource Manager 1.2.5
• XenForo Media Gallery 1.1.13
• XenForo Enhanced Search 1.1.7
• A load of new features for XenForo 2.0 and all of the above

While we're doing that monumental task, we're also supporting and maintaining all of the above. We're also fielding and spending time that should be spent developing answering questions such as this.

In the middle of the three years we're talking about, Mike and I took pretty much 4-6 months off developing XenForo 2.0.0 so we could release XenForo 1.5.0. Amongst all of this, we're still answering tickets, support questions on the forum, writing documentation for things and doing our best to keep people informed of where we are.

If you ever get the opportunity, install XenForo 1.0.0 some time and compare it side by side to XenForo 1.5.13. XenForo 1.0.0 was a XenForo that only had a fraction of the support commitments, a fraction of the functionality, a fraction (basically none) additional products to support. No responsive design. In fact, if you look through the Have You Seen forum from pages 1-4 you will see all of these familiar looking features that we're using extensively now that probably weren't even conceived in that initial 2 year development period. And when you're developing a product from scratch you have basically no customer expectations to meet, there's room to take an iterative approach to things and there's just basically no barriers in front of you.

We've held our hands up to the fact that the announcement was perhaps a bit early, and in an ideal world we'd definitely like to be further forward now than we are. But when you actually think about the absolute mammoth task that we've had in front of us, 3 years is really no time at all.