XenForo 2.0 Discussion

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I think the concern is that it'll be another 1 (maybe 2?) years until the code is stable, all the addons have been updated to XF2, etc. Will the codebase being developed now (which will then be 5 years old) still be ok or will the whole process need to start again?

Basically is this a one-off overhaul or are you always chasing your own tail trying to keep "modern" without time to actually work on new features.
 
It will only be released once we feel it is stable, and that certainly won't be 1-2 years away. Add-on developers and style designers are already working on 2.0 versions (which is why we've had the developer preview to start with...) and it's going to ultimately be within their interests to turn that around as soon as possible.

When we release it, the code base will be brand new and as modern and up to date as it possibly can be. It won't have already aged three years as soon as it is released.

To a certain extent, the very reason we're doing what we're doing now is so we don't have to do this again. Of course technology, methodology, experience and developer skill improves over time but what we have, which has so far been ratified by a majority of the feedback we've received from developers, is a strong and stable platform which will expedite first and third party development for many years to come.
 
Chris D said:
I don't mind feedback being blunt, as long as you don't mind me being similarly so.

Such a comparison is extremely short sighted and partly inaccurate.
  1. Development started in 2009, not 2010.
  2. The lawsuit kicked in about 18 months after development started, and by the time it reared its head, the software was just approaching Beta 1 so was practically finished.
  3. XenForo 1.0.0 was released just under two years after development began.
  4. That means it took two years to develop XenForo 1.0.0 vs the coming up to three years to develop XenForo 2.0.0.
So, how has it taken longer for three developers to develop XenForo 2.0.0 vs. the two developers it took to develop XenForo 1.0.0? Most people can appreciate and understand...

Quite simply, in 2009-2010, Mike and Kier were developing XenForo 1.0.0, whereas Mike, Kier and I are rewriting/developing:
While we're doing that monumental task, we're also supporting and maintaining all of the above. We're also fielding and spending time that should be spent developing answering questions such as this.

In the middle of the three years we're talking about, Mike and I took pretty much 4-6 months off developing XenForo 2.0.0 so we could release XenForo 1.5.0. Amongst all of this, we're still answering tickets, support questions on the forum, writing documentation for things and doing our best to keep people informed of where we are.

If you ever get the opportunity, install XenForo 1.0.0 some time and compare it side by side to XenForo 1.5.13. XenForo 1.0.0 was a XenForo that only had a fraction of the support commitments, a fraction of the functionality, a fraction (basically none) additional products to support. No responsive design. In fact, if you look through the Have You Seen forum from pages 1-4 you will see all of these familiar looking features that we're using extensively now that probably weren't even conceived in that initial 2 year development period. And when you're developing a product from scratch you have basically no customer expectations to meet, there's room to take an iterative approach to things and there's just basically no barriers in front of you.

We've held our hands up to the fact that the announcement was perhaps a bit early, and in an ideal world we'd definitely like to be further forward now than we are. But when you actually think about the absolute mammoth task that we've had in front of us, 3 years is really no time at all.
Click to expand...
I appreciate it that you took the time to give some more information and your point of view based on facts and helping complete the image. While some points appear completely different to me over the last few years, or back then in 2010, .. While using the forums and talking to the staff there, and users, it just feels we're stagnating and struggling to get things the way we want them to achieve what needs to be done. The discussions made by me and others in the past here keep ending on getting push back. That's my experience, wether you are busy with ticket and other stuff or not. But don't get me wrong, I know there are new versions and over time new things have been introduced - I am not claiming nothing happened.
 
xenfans said:
It's 2018 by the time we upgrade our sites to 2.0, if we do so (can't really see a lot of benefits over 1.5 at this point to be honest)
and investing money in a modern forum solution that helps build a community, keep those users, and improve user engagement .. giving it a respectable place within other "user interactive communities" like social networks, etc .. .. sigh, even while i am typing this, i already know it's not going to happen.
Click to expand...

I've been here since day one as well and I don't see any need to assimilate with social media, do what you deem "essential" yourself and let the three developers build a balanced product that isnt vbulletin 4. I know social media is killing other forums but I personally don't suffer this fate and I don't see why xenforo needs to mimick that crap anyway and turn into a facebook API plugin just so you're not left in the dark over there somehow. If you've spent hundreds on add-ons (as I have too) then when you move to xenforo 2 that is your choice, don't even try throw that back at people here - you decided you need all that extra stuff that was never promised in the xf1 or 2 core to begin with.
 
Yes please don't build vBulletin 4, haha :) I think everybody here can at least agree on that :D

And please don't see me posting a 'negative' opinion as if I am not happy with anything. There's a lot of two thumbs up stuff going on.

And I never said by the way that anything was promised, or that I am expecting it. And the 'desires' that we wish forum products have, isn't just my own wish. I've been involved with community building and still help out daily with plenty that we have discussions about what's next and loads of it is very very similar.
 
Chris D said:
I don't mind feedback being blunt, as long as you don't mind me being similarly so.

Such a comparison is extremely short sighted and partly inaccurate.
  1. Development started in 2009, not 2010.
  2. The lawsuit kicked in about 18 months after development started, and by the time it reared its head, the software was just approaching Beta 1 so was practically finished.
  3. XenForo 1.0.0 was released just under two years after development began.
  4. That means it took two years to develop XenForo 1.0.0 vs the coming up to three years to develop XenForo 2.0.0.
So, how has it taken longer for three developers to develop XenForo 2.0.0 vs. the two developers it took to develop XenForo 1.0.0? Most people can appreciate and understand...

Quite simply, in 2009-2010, Mike and Kier were developing XenForo 1.0.0, whereas Mike, Kier and I are rewriting/developing:
While we're doing that monumental task, we're also supporting and maintaining all of the above. We're also fielding and spending time that should be spent developing answering questions such as this.

In the middle of the three years we're talking about, Mike and I took pretty much 4-6 months off developing XenForo 2.0.0 so we could release XenForo 1.5.0. Amongst all of this, we're still answering tickets, support questions on the forum, writing documentation for things and doing our best to keep people informed of where we are.

If you ever get the opportunity, install XenForo 1.0.0 some time and compare it side by side to XenForo 1.5.13. XenForo 1.0.0 was a XenForo that only had a fraction of the support commitments, a fraction of the functionality, a fraction (basically none) additional products to support. No responsive design. In fact, if you look through the Have You Seen forum from pages 1-4 you will see all of these familiar looking features that we're using extensively now that probably weren't even conceived in that initial 2 year development period. And when you're developing a product from scratch you have basically no customer expectations to meet, there's room to take an iterative approach to things and there's just basically no barriers in front of you.

We've held our hands up to the fact that the announcement was perhaps a bit early, and in an ideal world we'd definitely like to be further forward now than we are. But when you actually think about the absolute mammoth task that we've had in front of us, 3 years is really no time at all.
Click to expand...

This might be one of the best replies/explanations I have read in quite some time.

From the outside, you can really get set in the mode of "Man, what in the blue hell is taking so long"... but now, after this, I can appreciate the task that has been undertaken. I really never looked at it from this view, and I am really glad you took the time to explain as you have. I really feel like I should apologize for simply assuming you guys have been kickin' it (hehe, kidding ..... well, about the kickin' it part, but the apology could stand, again, as I never truly understood the sheer amount of work needed - I'm no coder - ha.) Puts it into perspective for me.

Anywho, look forward to seeing everything come together.
 
Chris D said:
I don't mind feedback being blunt, as long as you don't mind me being similarly so.

Such a comparison is extremely short sighted and partly inaccurate.
  1. Development started in 2009, not 2010.
  2. The lawsuit kicked in about 18 months after development started, and by the time it reared its head, the software was just approaching Beta 1 so was practically finished.
  3. XenForo 1.0.0 was released just under two years after development began.
  4. That means it took two years to develop XenForo 1.0.0 vs the coming up to three years to develop XenForo 2.0.0.
So, how has it taken longer for three developers to develop XenForo 2.0.0 vs. the two developers it took to develop XenForo 1.0.0? Most people can appreciate and understand...

Quite simply, in 2009-2010, Mike and Kier were developing XenForo 1.0.0, whereas Mike, Kier and I are rewriting/developing:
While we're doing that monumental task, we're also supporting and maintaining all of the above. We're also fielding and spending time that should be spent developing answering questions such as this.

In the middle of the three years we're talking about, Mike and I took pretty much 4-6 months off developing XenForo 2.0.0 so we could release XenForo 1.5.0. Amongst all of this, we're still answering tickets, support questions on the forum, writing documentation for things and doing our best to keep people informed of where we are.

If you ever get the opportunity, install XenForo 1.0.0 some time and compare it side by side to XenForo 1.5.13. XenForo 1.0.0 was a XenForo that only had a fraction of the support commitments, a fraction of the functionality, a fraction (basically none) additional products to support. No responsive design. In fact, if you look through the Have You Seen forum from pages 1-4 you will see all of these familiar looking features that we're using extensively now that probably weren't even conceived in that initial 2 year development period. And when you're developing a product from scratch you have basically no customer expectations to meet, there's room to take an iterative approach to things and there's just basically no barriers in front of you.

We've held our hands up to the fact that the announcement was perhaps a bit early, and in an ideal world we'd definitely like to be further forward now than we are. But when you actually think about the absolute mammoth task that we've had in front of us, 3 years is really no time at all.
Click to expand...

Great explanation! And i can wait for as long as it would take to make it a Gold release!

However, the bottom line is you guys, the developers, are over burdened and need more dedicated full-time paid people in your support staff team, so that you guys can focus solely on the development of the scrips without worrying too much about writing manuals, support tickets and other stuff.
 
take your time and do it right you guys got a lot of the market share doing what you do. just keep doing it.

i would like to see a new forum called xf 2.0 wish list

give us a place to help, were in this together
 
Neutral Singh said:
....the bottom line is you guys, the developers, are over burdened and need more dedicated full-time paid people in your support staff team, so that you guys can focus solely on the development of the scrips without worrying too much about writing manuals, support tickets and other stuff.
Click to expand...

Yeah it would be a bummer if there was only a few days a week spent on XF 2 dev
 
Neutral Singh said:
However, the bottom line is you guys, the developers, are over burdened and need more dedicated full-time paid people in your support staff team, so that you guys can focus solely on the development of the scrips without worrying too much about writing manuals, support tickets and other stuff.
Click to expand...
Hoolio said:
Yeah it would be a bummer if there was only a few days a week spent on XF 2 dev
Click to expand...
Actually, working on support tickets and answering queries on the forum is entirely a personal choice. "A few days a week"? At the minimum, 5 days a week are spent on XF2 development. It's often a good break / change of scenery doing support related stuff.
 
Chris D said:
Add-on developers and style designers are already working on 2.0 versions (which is why we've had the developer preview to start with...) and it's going to ultimately be within their interests to turn that around as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
A note to the add-on and style designers: please make some sort of note in your current product that you are working on a version for 2.0. This lets me know if the product has been abandoned or not, and makes a big difference in whether or not I would purchase it now and then upgrade when it's ready, or find an alternative which is being readied for 2.0.

Buying add-ons adds up. Being stuck with dead, abandoned add-ons is something none of us forum owners want to deal with. True, we can simply remove them from the forum, but forum users (you know, the people we actually host the forums for, to visit and enjoy daily) come to depend on them.
 
Biker said:
Need to take a good hard look at the license agreement for react.js.

http://react-etc.net/entry/your-license-to-use-react-js-can-be-revoked-if-you-compete-with-facebook

With a clause like that in the licensing agreement, there's no way I'd want to use it.
Click to expand...

Lurker here. No trolling or flames intended.

FYI The React licensing has been clarified since this post. Please see:

http://react-etc.net/entry/react-patents-facebook-license-faq-adoption-by-apple-and-microsoft

So.. I have a very serious question. I'm not a React fanboy, I just want to make the right decision for the future of my community. I run a 500k member forum (vB), and have been patiently waiting for XF2 to arrive so I can make the switch. Very excited about it getting released, and moving over to XF2.

As the years have rolled by in XF2's 3 year long development, we've all seen a major shift towards websites' UIs becoming faster and more desktop like, with React and Angular as example JS frameworks. Low latency UI is going to be a major driver behind web development in the coming years and I think any website that doesn't see this coming will be left behind.

I have done quite a bit of searching on this forum and haven't found a clear clarification of XF's plans to integrate this low latency UI revolution. I can see that XF2 does in fact have various client-side loading going on. So two questions if I may ask:

1) What does XF2 currently do to speed up the interface in terms of client side JS?
2) Does the XF2 framework, started 3 years ago, have integration of React/Angular/(etc?) as part of it's future, or will we be stuck with a high latency client-server model for the next 5 years before XF3 comes around?

Thank you very much, your replies will help guide my decision to wait for XF2 or keep my eye out for another platform that will leverage these new UI frameworks.
 
There are no current plans to change JS framework from jQuery but of course we'll always look to use what we feel is the best fit for our product.

I particularly have an interest in React so it would certainly be a contender.
 
Rudy said:
A note to the add-on and style designers: please make some sort of note in your current product that you are working on a version for 2.0. This lets me know if the product has been abandoned or not, and makes a big difference in whether or not I would purchase it now and then upgrade when it's ready, or find an alternative which is being readied for 2.0.
Click to expand...
Like a trivial update to a 1.x addon that has a title .... working on a 2.0 version.
 
@ Reflect etc.: Don't be deceived by the hype all major JS stuff seems to get these days.
React can greatly improve things ... for certain types of sites, certain actions on it, etc.etc. . For some others, it's just horrible bloat.

It's not a magic bullet.

And even their official website stopped promising increased speed some time ago.
 
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