XenForo 2.0 Discussion
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there is so many site who uses custom setup and custom add on, and lots of premium add on, i think large forums need minimun 5-7K to even think about upgrade, even small forum with couple premium add ons need 100-300$ to renew or buy same add on for XF2.
Widget framework exists since 1.2 I think thanks to user xfrocks. Like basically any XF forum out there had that addon installed. Now it's in the core, which is great to have officially support but they are technically right.
XF 2.0 offers almost no new "game-changing" enhancements over 1.5 (imo since 1.2)
Anyway, we should move on from this same debate. It was discussed many times already. XF 2.0 was mainly about feature parity. It also came with neat tweaks and such, so all good. No need to discuss it.
Now my question about what the status about XF 2.1 is, was ignored (or not answered yet).
It seems we can wait another year to have a meaningful progress, if at all. That slow tempo is typical for xf sadly.
It seems to me that xf is 2 steps behind from modern counterparts. IPS made great progress since their 4.2 launch, WBB has a lot of essential packages, and basically any niche forum out there died and is basically a subreddit of reddit now. Facebook is trying to become more like a forum and all of them (social media giants) have apps and APIs.
On top of that (i dont care about that personally) adblock and such gave the final deadly hit.
It doesn't look bright for forum owners. The only bright light is/was XF and they take things so slowly that at this rate maybe in 10 years we will have a platform we would like to have.
XF 2.0 offers almost no new "game-changing" enhancements over 1.5 (imo since 1.2)
Anyway, we should move on from this same debate. It was discussed many times already. XF 2.0 was mainly about feature parity. It also came with neat tweaks and such, so all good. No need to discuss it.
Now my question about what the status about XF 2.1 is, was ignored (or not answered yet).
It seems we can wait another year to have a meaningful progress, if at all. That slow tempo is typical for xf sadly.
It seems to me that xf is 2 steps behind from modern counterparts. IPS made great progress since their 4.2 launch, WBB has a lot of essential packages, and basically any niche forum out there died and is basically a subreddit of reddit now. Facebook is trying to become more like a forum and all of them (social media giants) have apps and APIs.
On top of that (i dont care about that personally) adblock and such gave the final deadly hit.
It doesn't look bright for forum owners. The only bright light is/was XF and they take things so slowly that at this rate maybe in 10 years we will have a platform we would like to have.
Then there is no compelling reason for those sites to update to XF2 at this point, simple really.
Find that an update to XF2 is worthwhile, very even.
However, for us in Germany of course only if there is also the German language file for it otherwise XF2 is not to use.
The problem is that the simplest things are not implemented. eg a status system with Pictures/video upload, smilies and activity.
That would be simple to insert but you don't do it. I don't understand.
I don't like WhatsApp either but it has to be becauseof school, football.
You have to go with time and forums hang there very far back also Xenforo!
Hardly any real changes not even smilies against at the profil posts.
Sometimes you have to take a step backwards before leaping forwards. It seems to me that XF2 was about improving the framework and code base in preparation of future features as well as provide a better experience for addon developers and of course XF developers. XF has always been about quality over quantity, not everyone is interested in all features and a fast forum is always better than a feature rich slow forum.
Good enough for me. Thanks.
I hope that the XF Team will focus in the future more on adding features to resolve the "real" problems of admins.
The main problems of forum owners are growing a forum community and make more money.
It is nice to have a faster or more shiny forum. But it does not address those problems.
Professional newsletters in the core, online banking payments in the core etc., these are features we need to grow and make more money.
I do not care about more smilies etc. as long as I have not the marketing tools implemented to get bigger and earn easier more money.
A facebook page or youtube channel or instagram site are offering me directmarketing tools in the core out of the box. This is why they grow so fast. Why is this ignored in forum software? Why no direct marketing features in forum software?
We want to earn money. Why forum software is making it as hard as possible to get the money from the users? Why only PayPal? Are there successful restaurants, which accept only Visa and no cash or no Mastercard?
We have to make it as easy as possible for our users to give us their money. No matter with what or how they want to pay.
Please focus more on this in the future. Otherwise good content creators will switch more and more to youtube et alii to earn easier the money and grow faster.
The main problems of forum owners are growing a forum community and make more money.
It is nice to have a faster or more shiny forum. But it does not address those problems.
Professional newsletters in the core, online banking payments in the core etc., these are features we need to grow and make more money.
I do not care about more smilies etc. as long as I have not the marketing tools implemented to get bigger and earn easier more money.
A facebook page or youtube channel or instagram site are offering me directmarketing tools in the core out of the box. This is why they grow so fast. Why is this ignored in forum software? Why no direct marketing features in forum software?
We want to earn money. Why forum software is making it as hard as possible to get the money from the users? Why only PayPal? Are there successful restaurants, which accept only Visa and no cash or no Mastercard?
We have to make it as easy as possible for our users to give us their money. No matter with what or how they want to pay.
Please focus more on this in the future. Otherwise good content creators will switch more and more to youtube et alii to earn easier the money and grow faster.
i dont need any of u mentioned, but i presume someone like it?
I'm not one to fanboy a brand, but what exactly have IPS and WBB added that is revolutionary that XF doesn't have?
I don't find XF two steps behind, it's still my preferred forum platform for traditional threaded discussions. It's also far cheaper than IPS and, at least as far as I've found, has a more friendly community in general. I don't know about WBB.
Honestly, use what platform best suits your needs. But XF2 was a great upgrade and changed massively under the hood, to call it trivial is a massive understatement. It's a complete change in design and a well welcomed and needed one at that. For those critical of it in this thread, perhaps wait until the x.X updates which aim to add more usable features before grabbing the pitchforks.
Professional newsletters would be interesting, I think a feature suggestion already exists. What does "online banking payments" mean? Some countries have bank transfer methods, typically some European ones that have Stripe support, but generally bank transfers are subject to manual approval, things like ACH, Faster Payments, CHAPS, SEPA. Those kinds of things can't really be added.
PayPal is not the only accepted gateway. XF2 has support for Stripe out of the box, which I suppose is what you mean by "online banking payments".
Exactly. This is why the like system they use to detect suggestion popularity is important.
Not talking about revolutionary regarding the other 2 forum software.
The revolutionary part is compared to social media giants, which means in today's world you need a mobile phone app. That part is lacking and also all modern software come with an API. Those 2 things are regarded as "revolutionary", sure the technology behind this is already years old, so actually it's old news, but that is exactly the point. Old news and still lacking behind.
About IPS and WBB.
Both have a calendar(events). This is essential. Any kind of social media platform uses this. Even Twitch integrated a sidebar for incoming events.
Most reddit sidebars have it. Facebook has it and anybody should be familiar with Google Calendar.
I don't want to hear "I don't need it, so it is only essential to you". No, that is invalid arguement, as the majority and the big players have it integrated, both mentioned forum software, too.
IPS also has ecommerce, blogs (so does WBB), cms and since 4.2 clubs. Clubs seems to be very popular.
I agree. I also prefer XF. XF's support and community is A+. The product is very fast and secure and since the new polish it looks also very neat.
But it doesn't mean it covers all major aspects.
I don't grab the pitchfork. And I am not saying that the changes are trivial.
But my point is, or actually our point is, when talked about features, not much changed since 1.2. For example I have had addons built for 1.2 and were working for 1.5, so I can safely say the last big change was with 1.2 when it comes to features. Also you can skim the announcements and see for yourself what kind of stuff was added later, not much, or at least nothing you couldn't do with a popular addon. But also nobody is denying the huge work went into the new architecture for devs. But that was not the point. There is I think nothing you can do with 2.0 (maybe only minor things only) what you can't do with 1.5.
But again, the critique was not about that.
The critique is XF is making slow progress. The rate of improvement is very low.
In July of 2014 2.0 was announced.
In November of 2016 we have seen the beta forums.
In September 2017 first 2.0 version was released.
In 4 months it will be the time when 5 years ago 1.2 was released.
If you look from the window of 5 years, not much changed (on the hood, not under).
If you take the announcement of 2014, in last 4 years not much changed (the release of 1.4 was in 2014 August)
If you take the window of XF2 beta forums, 1.5 years has past.
And if you take the window of the official release, 6 months has past.
In my opinion the progress is too slow. I just wish things were faster.
But we'll see what 2.1 will bring us. I am so hyped about that. For me it's "makes it or breaks it" kind of a deal.
Either they sweep us off our feet and I eat all my words, or we see the same "meh" progress we have seen in 1.2->1.3->1.4->1.5->2.0 when it comes to feature enhancements. I'm hopeful, Chris said they are working on it.
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A calendar for a social media platform where you can arrange events makes sense. A calendar for a discussion forum doesn't (aside from some specific niches). Just because other forums include it doesn't mean they're right. A better question would be how many IPS and WBB forums actually use their calendar? I suspect it's very few.
I guess it all comes down to, is XF a forum or a platform?
If it's a platform to build a website/community around then borrowing things from Facebook, etc makes sense (but Facebook does it better, has a bigger audience and far more resources so you're fighting somewhat of a losing battle).
XF specialising in being THE best forum also makes a lot of sense.
Even for a discussion forum it makes sense. For example to see birthdays of users listed or to announce daily/weekly/monthly threads for all users to participate in. The question is, which niche actually can't use a calendar at all? You need to name me one example. Any niche can use it. Sure, there will be some who will use it heavily, and some not at all. But saying "it makes no sense" makes no sense. You shouldn't talk like you determine what makes sense or not.
I listed more than just "other forums". So Facebook, Twitch and reddit are just "other forums"?
Please...
A better question would be how many forums are alive at all so you can go and start deducting numbers from the 1% of the market share forum software hold. Or you just look at the rest 99% (billions of users in social media) and maybe, just maybe you can learn 1 or 2 things.
What kind of a question is this? Why do we need to draw an artificial line somewhere in those intangible words?
Having likes was Facebook's thing, right? Look at today. Did that stop XF implementing it? If it is good, it is good.
Did the phone makers also say "damn, we should decide if a phone is a phone and a camera is a camera". Or did they integrate lenses into phones?
Why can't we just get the good things of other softwares into XF, if there is a huge potential with it?
So it is actually ok when Social Media steals from traditional forums, but forum software should just stick to its oldfashioned way? Don't innovate, don't progress.
Hmm, tell me, why are forums dead again? It worked brilliantly....
I am not talking turning forum software into Social Media duplicates, just an essential big feature called Calendar could make a lot of sense for ANY forum owner. Proved by the point that many big league participants also have it, and also 2 rivals by the way.
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Your first question should be, how many forums NEED a calendar? After that, how many WANT a calendar? After that, how many would use a calendar if it existed but don't really care either way.
Those sort of questions let you decide where to prioritise the finite resources that XF has for development. You then ask the same questions for all the other addons that people want, portals, newsletters, etc and all the other core features.
Those sort of questions let you decide where to prioritise the finite resources that XF has for development. You then ask the same questions for all the other addons that people want, portals, newsletters, etc and all the other core features.
I don't think anyone is trying replace Facebook. There are things that can be taken from social networks to benefit the community, such as when you upload a video to a forum post it actually embeds in the forum post and people can play it from the forum post (IPS 4.3). Then there's profile posts, which should be rich forum posts. I can go on but I won't.
I think the real problem is that there's some of us who want Xenforo to be more than just an awesome forum -- a community beyond just the forum. Kinda funny that vbulletin, WBB, and IPS all have calendars and blogs, but Xenforo doesn't and those are in the first two pages of the most liked suggestions dating back to 2010 (clearly there's interest there). Add-ons fill those voids and that seems to be what Xenforo wants. I like Xenforo, that's why I bought it and two of their official add-ons, but it's hard not to be distracted by IPS, especially since 4.2 and now 4.3 features. IPS fixed my biggest issue with them in 4.3, which is their gallery and 4.3 will also have a Xenforo 2.0 importer so decisions to make. If you need a forum for a company web site Xenforo is great, if you want to create an actual community it's not the best choice. That's how I feel about, I'm sure others will feel differently.
I think the real problem is that there's some of us who want Xenforo to be more than just an awesome forum -- a community beyond just the forum. Kinda funny that vbulletin, WBB, and IPS all have calendars and blogs, but Xenforo doesn't and those are in the first two pages of the most liked suggestions dating back to 2010 (clearly there's interest there). Add-ons fill those voids and that seems to be what Xenforo wants. I like Xenforo, that's why I bought it and two of their official add-ons, but it's hard not to be distracted by IPS, especially since 4.2 and now 4.3 features. IPS fixed my biggest issue with them in 4.3, which is their gallery and 4.3 will also have a Xenforo 2.0 importer so decisions to make. If you need a forum for a company web site Xenforo is great, if you want to create an actual community it's not the best choice. That's how I feel about, I'm sure others will feel differently.
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