XenForo Beta6, very disappointed

[Allan]

I very disappointed when i read all modification in this thread.

Sure, there are interesting additions, but almost none of the important suggestions made by members.

What's going on ?

 

[Peggy]

hehe

I just don't like our community veterans to be disrespected. That is all. Sorry Peggy, I was in the wrong too.

I liked Allan's first post because everyone is jumping down his throat for an opinion he made. I know what its like to be singled out and have no one on my side. So I stepped up. I am however satisfied with the product thus far.

Bah, Allan's a big boy, he can take it. When you start a thread like this, you have to expect some criticism.

 

[jonsidneyb]

My 2 cents.

It is going to be impossible to make everyone happy. I know for a fact it will absolutely not be possible to get what I want off of the shelf but this comes closer to anything I have seen.

I think the pluses far far out way any negatives.

If this where being made just for me I would only want in it what I am planning on using and nothing more. The reality is there is going to be a wide variety of wants. If I am not going to use a feature I would rather it not be there but I am not going to complain about it. The features I don't want I will either turn off or have the feature modded so it is not seen.

I would love there to be both Modder made and XenForo made add-ons out there most of which I will not be interested in.

There will be quite a few features I will want in XenForo that will not be there in a stock configuration but there will also be a lot of features I will simply not want.

If it becomes bloated I want it to be only bloated with what I am using and not with the items I will not be using.

I think the XenForo team is doing an absolutely fantastic job.

Again, it is going to be impossible for them to make everyone happy. I think the only way to make everyone happy is physically impossible. That is to custom make the software for each buyer and then the cost would be massive and then people that had a custom build will later change their minds on what they want.

I want slick, clean, and stable and to bloat it myself on my terms with only what I will use.

I am also starting to think I like Shelley's posts too much.

I really am loving Peggy's and Dragonfly's posts as well.

 

[Kier]

Mobile discussion split to here:
http://xenforo.com/community/threads/beta-6-mobile-discussion.10443/

 

[dieketzer]

You sir, need to learn what a BETA release is, let me google that for you and get a definition...

define a beta in whatever way is most useful, but features are obviously being added with each beta release. my disappointment is due to the features being chosen.
one example is the lightbox. we already have a highslide edit available to us that, imo, is better in every way to this new lightbox. yet we get this new feature instead of something useful yet unaddressed, like an ignore/block function for users.
its becoming more and more evident to me that perhaps xf is being created with a sole administration model in mind, which is a worrying prospect for myself.

 

[EQnoble]

Could you explain this part to me? I don't follow the relevance.

...perhaps xf is being created with a sole administration model in mind, which is a worrying prospect for myself.

 

[Russ]

Could you explain this part to me? I don't follow the relevance.

He's probably just wanting other things done instead of what he's seeing. I find it extremely unfair of a statement because so far I feel KMA public relations have been fantastic. No matter what they do they can't please everyone the only thing I can say for an argument is that its beta... people bought this software knowing that its not bloatware and things could or not come down the road

 

[EQnoble]

Well I actually don't understand the correlation of "sole administration model" to a few features being added and was literally asking as I don't get the definition term of sole administration model or the correct application of that term to this scenario. I have no intention of trying to stir the pot or anything , I just want to know what we are talking about here because it seems quite oblique to myself anyways but that may because I am probably misunderstanding what he means by sole administration model.

 

[dieketzer]

the only administration style supported by xf is 'authoritarian'.
there is no provision for instructing users to block, or to use ignore. there is no provision for members to turn off avatars, stop ppl from following them, this sort of thing. even the lack of any 'like button' alternatives really narrows the possibilities of how a xf forum can be operated. pretty much any possible conflict amongst users will require an admin to intervene and judge. its great people are finding a use for 'miserable users' and whatnot, but i am simply finding that xf is not a great match to my style of administration.

 

[dieketzer]

if its something not useful to me, i can always denigrate it by referring to it as bloat.
yes?

 

[EQnoble]

I agree with your use of it then but I would think that those things would not be features so much but some additional code in the permission area of things right. We are talking about displaying or not displaying content that is there already so I would think that is one of those things that if they were going to add it could be added with out writing up a whole new feature so to speak. I would love to see a "mute" button displayed on the overlayed usercards for one to click in order to make content areas of "muted" users posts not appear as well as a similar action for individual users signatures, but one thing at a time. I'm sure that is something that will be addressed but I am not a swami so I will be waiting right there with yah. The features that have been added in my opinion though are excellent as an experienced coder can make a site however he sees fit. But for the average person new to the neighborhood wanting to start a forum customizing can be a daunting task. The feature sets that are being added to me seem to cater to the greatest majority with ease of customization by the end user being one of the priorities and that to me says they are not in a hurry to put out 100 things at once and fix em after, they want to add a few at a time, more than likely in a logical order that we are not privy to. I have to say I too do not have some of the features I want and have been told they will not become features probably ever...but it is because like 4 people want what I want. Minus a few things that have given me a reason to up my skill level and code myself (failing currently btw) I would say I am extremely happy with their incremental approach to adding to the core code of the product and the subsequent features being added.

 

[xenDach]

I am very happy any new functionality is being added. Normally the software should be locked down and the final version should be released soon. However, the spectrum of missing features is large, as is the customer base wanting those features and many are waiting for a more feature rich xenForo, like the thread starter. I personally can understand the juggling act of "should we (add this feature now)", "shouldn't we", "will it take too much time", "will it possibly add too many issues to slow the final release", "is it really something that will stand out", etc. All these factors make the life of a project manager and developer of a software very, very hard. Everyone I believe should respect that. I know in the end, Kier and Mike will do the right thing. They have in the past and they are the same people now.

Xen will get to one of its many future and adventurous destinations fast enough!

xenDach

 

[jmurrayhead]

While I am very happy with things, I think dieketzer just made some valid points and I think I agree with him to an extent.

 

[Stuart Wright]

the only administration style supported by xf is 'authoritarian'.
there is no provision for instructing users to block, or to use ignore. there is no provision for members to turn off avatars, stop ppl from following them, this sort of thing. even the lack of any 'like button' alternatives really narrows the possibilities of how a xf forum can be operated. pretty much any possible conflict amongst users will require an admin to intervene and judge. its great people are finding a use for 'miserable users' and whatnot, but i am simply finding that xf is not a great match to my style of administration.

It's hardly surprising that xenForo doesn't suit everyone right away. I mean everyone is different and long term forum admins like you and me have got used to working in a certain way - a way which may not necessarily be the best, but one which has evolved given the constraints of our current forum software (vBulletin in my case). It's a method of working which we are used to and maybe a little entrenched in.

Turning off avatars is a bit of a left field suggestion. xenForo integrates them so significantly into its key design and operation that it simply isn't going to work if you turn them off. It's like saying you want to turn off photos in Facebook. You'll have to find some other social networking software if you want to go down that route.

When there are limited resources, xenForo will have to be developed with priorities given to certain features and since we are different people, our opinions with regard to what features are vital will differ from Kier and Mike. Therefore what we consider essential may take a little longer to arrive.
You have to have a bit of patience. We at AVForums for example, are desperate to ditch vBulletin (it even says so in my avatar, look), but we have to wait months yet, before the functionality we need arrives. We'll get there eventually.

In the mean time, I'm not going to be unhelpful by hurling insults at the software or the team.
If xF is not a great match to your style of administration, you have four choices:

1. wait for the functionality you need to be developed
2. pay people to develop the functionality you need as addons
3. change your style of administration
4. choose alternative forum software

I am choosing a combination of 1-3, which I think is the most reasonable way forward.

 

[Kier]

the only administration style supported by xf is 'authoritarian'.
there is no provision for instructing users to block, or to use ignore. there is no provision for members to turn off avatars, stop ppl from following them, this sort of thing. even the lack of any 'like button' alternatives really narrows the possibilities of how a xf forum can be operated. pretty much any possible conflict amongst users will require an admin to intervene and judge. its great people are finding a use for 'miserable users' and whatnot, but i am simply finding that xf is not a great match to my style of administration.

I know that you want an infraction system and the ability to ignore users. You've made that abundantly clear. Repeatedly. Those features will come, but not before version 1.1. They are extensive features to implement properly and as such they have been de-prioritized in favour of features that actively help to build communities and generate content while always improving the user experience of the software.

As far as your comments on avatars and preventing following are concerned, I'm confused by both.

Preventing someone from following you? Why? What's the point? If you want privacy, use the privacy settings. There is no more data exposed by virtue of someone following you than they could find by viewing your profile page.

And an ability to hide avatars? Have you not noticed that user avatars are a fundamental design element for almost every page of the XenForo UI?

 

[ragtek]

They are extensive features to implement properly

IMHO all features should be implemented properly and not quick and dirty!
That's why i don't understand, why you spent time including template hooks instead of saying=> yea, we want to include a auto marging / editint function into xf, but not before 1.1... ( i know i'm getting boring, but something like =>
tms / http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/entry.php/2350-vB-4.0-Template-Merging-and-3-Way-Comparison , but more powerfull to be able to use this also for add-ons would be great...) (many customers requested a template modifying system instead of the hooks...)

Also the Q&A Captcha is IMHO a #fail but i said it already in an other thread...

 

[JVCode]

I know that you want an infraction system and the ability to ignore users. You've made that abundantly clear. Repeatedly. Those features will come, but not before version 1.1. They are extensive features to implement properly and as such they have been de-prioritized in favour of features that actively help to build communities and generate content while always improving the user experience of the software.

As far as your comments on avatars and preventing following are concerned, I'm confused by both.

Preventing someone from following you? Why? What's the point? If you want privacy, use the privacy settings. There is no more data exposed by virtue of someone following you than they could find by viewing your profile page.

And an ability to hide avatars? Have you not noticed that user avatars are a fundamental design element for almost every page of the XenForo UI?

I'm so glad you have this mind set, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. I for one, am a VERY happy customer.

 

[EQnoble]

I'm so glad you have this mind set, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. I for one, am a VERY happy customer.

...ditto to that

 

[Mike]

IMHO all features should be implemented properly and not quick and dirty!
That's why i don't understand, why you spent time including template hooks instead of saying=> yea, we want to include a auto marging / editint function into xf, but not before 1.1... ( i know i'm getting boring, but something like =>
tms / http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/entry.php/2350-vB-4.0-Template-Merging-and-3-Way-Comparison , but more powerfull to be able to use this also for add-ons would be great...) (many customers requested a template modifying system instead of the hooks...)

Also the Q&A Captcha is IMHO a #fail but i said it already in an other thread...

This isn't really an opposite argument. You're arguing that something shouldn't be done at all unless it's going to include X, Y, and Z. Template modification management, merging, etc are still on the cards (as I hinted earlier), so I'm not sure why you think that template hooks mean that they aren't. Fact is, I could get the template hook system implemented for 1.0, so would you have rather we didn't have that at all? Arguing for X does not mean that Y is not also valid. In this specific case, 1.0 was never going to have the template features you want, so bringing template hooks into your argument doesn't really fit.

The Q&A CAPTCHA is the same thing really. While it may not work for you right now, if it works for 95% of people, then that's still very useful. If 1.0 wasn't going to have a 100% useful Q&A system but it was able to have a 95% useful system, then I'm not seeing the problem. Fact is, with regard to this particular area, beta 6 is clearly no worse than beta 5 as you just have another option now. Features are not necessarily either-or.

We have always said that while we want to push XF forward quickly, we can't recommend buying on what may come, as really there are no guarantees as to what will be added.

 

[ragtek]

This isn't really an opposite argument. You're arguing that something shouldn't be done at all unless it's going to include X, Y, and Z. Template modification management, merging, etc are still on the cards (as I hinted earlier), so I'm not sure why you think that template hooks mean that they aren't. Fact is, I could get the template hook system implemented for 1.0, so would you have rather we didn't have that at all? Arguing for X does not mean that Y is not also valid. In this specific case, 1.0 was never going to have the template features you want, so bringing template hooks into your argument doesn't really fit.

Yes, the template hooks are IMHO useless if you write that you're not happy with the implementation and you don't include new hooks. (Even we have a thread for template hook requests, the last 2 betas hadn't any new template hooks.)

 

[Decent60]

For me, I love how releases are coming about.
This software is in the BETA stage, so while I am drooling with anticipation as to what is coming out in the next release, I am never disappointed when a feature I want isn't released yet because I know that this isn't a finished project.
I purchased early because of two things: I saw how great of a potential this software will have; I want to support a software that is going to be innovated and cutting-edge.
With that, I understood that the building of such a wonderful software will take some time, especially since (to my knowledge), it's being completely done by 2 people. All other boards have had at least 4 developers in it, XenForo is using half that and still doing an excellent job!