Exactly my point. Which makes me wonder why this is changed in xenforo.
XenForo 2.0 Discussion
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Exactly my point. Which makes me wonder why this is changed in xenforo.
Because they have taken steps to include proper design cues which will quickly train anyone to that functionality, and will create less confusion or frustration by adopting a mobile first design language rather than stagnating with a desktop first approach?
At the end of the day, people are not stupid and are going to learn the new interactions quite quickly. The new design for XenForo is much more usable than the current XF1 version, and if designers properly maintain that design language than there shouldn't be much of an issue even for your older demographics.
Yes, of course people will quickly realise that they can no longer see the alerts from just hovering. That won't stop the complaining that it was better before and wondering why something that didn't seem broken has been fixed.
The logic works the other way round.
I understand the reason for the alerts needing to be clickable is to have consistency between mobile (where you cannot hover) and desktop where you can.
If it was left as it is (with hover for desktops) people (as you say who are not stupid) and who are used to the site on mobile will quickly learn that hover works with a mouse.
Ignore the complaints? More often than not it is a very small amount that complain, and they're the same people who complain no matter what you do.
If it's honestly a big deal for you, look at making it activate on hover or ask someone else to do so for you.
If it was a small amount I'm sure I would ignore them, but if it is a significant amount, including staff who i don't want to upset as they do a great job for free, then I don't feel inclined to ignore them. Also I am also complaint, and I prefer not to ignore myself.
What I don't understand is what is so bad about something that is such a huge part of the web, people are used to it, why change it?
It's already been argued I'd be hard pushed to find hover menus, yet there it is on Amazon. Not only that it's default behaviour on all recent Wordpress themes including TwentySeventeen. And isn't it something like 75 million websites use Wordpress?
This to me makes the non-hover menu less useful and less intuitive than a hover menu.
Just because it's like that in other places doesn't mean it's more intuitive or more useful.
Forgetting what Amazon and others do, it is more expected and more intuitive to mimic what most UIs use - you don't expect to hover over the File menu on your favourite desktop app or OS to be able to access Print.
There's potentially never going to be a consensus on which is best, and there's never going to be an admin defined option to control it on our part, so it will remain as it is and it will just be a case of getting used to it. Whether you like it or not initially I'm positive that won't take long for most people.
Forgetting what Amazon and others do, it is more expected and more intuitive to mimic what most UIs use - you don't expect to hover over the File menu on your favourite desktop app or OS to be able to access Print.
There's potentially never going to be a consensus on which is best, and there's never going to be an admin defined option to control it on our part, so it will remain as it is and it will just be a case of getting used to it. Whether you like it or not initially I'm positive that won't take long for most people.
I can't (objectively) argue with that, all I can base it on is what I (and other people I know) find useful. Also based on the premise that many people don't like change unless there is an obvious benefit. Obviously when xenforo was developed it was deemed good to have the alerts hover. I do agree that the way some hover menus are designed can be detrimental to useability but this was never the case with xenforo. I don't think a hover per se can be bad as other aspects of xf2 have a hover (hover over Avatar for member card which is basically a menu), so I don't really understand the reasoning behind losing this. Not consistent.
Very true. But not that relevant to my argument. It would be good if they did IMO.
Maybe one day I will get used to it, but I am more concerned about the forum users and mods.
It still catches me out on xf2 when I hover over alerts and nothing happens.
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This is an excellent point.
Adding the hover to following four tabs would be great to have as an Admin Control Panel option:
From a coding perspective I suspect it's not that easy to do, is this the primary reason not to add the option?
TPerry
Well-known member
considering that it's still in developmental status, no (or very few) add-ons (1st party or 3rd party) have been released AFAIK. Same with the styles... the majority of the popular ones are still not released in a 2.0 stage and you probably won't see much of anything until XF2 releases a BETA status at the earliest.
In other words, XF 2 is NOT in a state that it's recommended to be used on a live site.
No existing themes or addons written for v1.x will work on v2.x ... they will require a complete re-write to work.
Xenforo Ltd values consistency between mobile and desktop versus optimal experiences in each domain.
FWIW, iOS has a version of hover .. light press vs heavy press.
Do browsers support the two presses ?
Do browsers support the two presses ?
I doubt they are actually thinking like that, which implies a compromise of usability purely for the sake of consistency across devices, however I am sad that the result does seem to be rather in the direction of a such a compromise.
I believe consistency can be a very good thing and should be strived for, but never at the expense of useability. However the idea of consistency across devices makes less sense given that the way you interact with desktop vs mobile is not consistent right on the most basic level of mouse vs tap.
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XenForo 2 allows admins to set 2 different styles for mobile and desktop, doesn't it?
Indeed, but here we are discussing the default style.
XF2 is the same as XF1, media queries are used to make a single style responsive to the visitors device.
I'm a big fan of XenForo and a customer but this thread was started 3 years ago and there still hasn't been an official release of XF 2
I agree with not rushing a product out before it's ready but 3 years is too much of a stretch. What's the main reasons behind the long delay?
I agree with not rushing a product out before it's ready but 3 years is too much of a stretch. What's the main reasons behind the long delay?
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