XenForo 2.0 Discussion

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XF 2 is just not doing it for me. It is just an old person who gets a face lift to look young; looks great but is still old. A need to change the future of forum software is really needed, and the team had the opportunity to do so, but chose not to.
Sometimes baby steps are the easiest way to proceed. If you try to do TO much at once you frequently end up with a shoddier product. Just look at the IPS 4.0 fiasco (released in 06/2015). Two years later in 4.2 it's finally coming to fruition.
 
XF 2 is just not doing it for me. It is just an old person who gets a face lift to look young; looks great but is still old. A need to change the future of forum software is really needed, and the team had the opportunity to do so, but chose not to.
Sorry to see you go, I just noticed you deleted a bunch of your resources.
 
Maybe I missed it somewhere but what are these other platforms that users are creating successful communities on from scratch? Be nice to have a few live examples.

Primarily facebook groups and reddit. The one click join 'group' or 'subreddit' functionality of these makes it a piece of cake to start a community from scratch.

There's a few forums I used to to frequent where they tested facebook groups. Sometimes because a member decided to start one, then the forum admins felt they should have an official group presence, then the traffic shifted from the forum to facebook, then they never went back and the forum is now a graveyard in comparison to the facebook group activity. (one example is a wordpress community I'm a member of)

Some of these groups now have 10, 20, 30, 40k+ members. (Quite a few auto groups are this big, Tesla and some others)

It's not an all or nothing, black and white differentiation though. Many forums aren't completely dead or shut down because of these, but their activity is massively cannibalised by their members stretching their time too thinly between all these different platforms, trying to eek the best features out of each one and trying to make sure what content they post gets seen and engaged with by the most users. Guess which platform wins for that? Facebook, because they shove the content from other members you interact with into your feed, into your notifications, pushed to your phone.

Not that this is always a good thing, but it gets posters the most feedback, quicker than if they shared it on any other platform, so they post there first, and often only there.

Even phone messaging apps are cannibalising forum activity now. What'sApp group chats, as basic as they are, after all they're just a single threaded conversation, work incredibly well for small groups. Half the activity from one of my small gaming clan sites is us just 20 of us shooting the breeze in What's App now when we don't feel the need to create a specific topic on the forum.

Why? It's instant, it's mobile, it has push and we can easily share photos and videos. Now you can get 256 users in a single group chat.

Why you'd really want to do that, I'm not to sure, I'm guessing that would get a bit manic. But, if you want to create a small community to directly connected to every members pocket, for free, in seconds, with reliable service and rich features, then it's a no brainer.

Same with facebook messenger group chat, I'm in some large group chats that I pop my head in from time to time. I'd say 100 people in a group chat is still a community, even though it's a very informal one. When I want an answer quickly, I can post in there and get responses in seconds.

If they outgrow that then they'll make a facebook group, still free, still great features, speed and UI, but you have threaded conversations.

Who is going to spend the time these days to drop $200 on the bare minimum to get a brand new forum community off the ground when you've got all this functionality for free elsewhere? The answer is fewer and fewer people.

It's the communities and facebook groups that make it to tens of thousands of members that I then see considering the return to a more structured forum format. When it makes sense to have a way to organise and filter the content.

Facebook sees this explosive growth in groups and local communities, users are logging onto facebook less often to post status updates, and more often to check in on and engage with the communities on there. Mark has made it clear that community is at the heart of facebook going forward:

(This articles is ludicrously long, but you can get the gist, community...community...community...)
https://www.facebook.com/notes/mark-zuckerberg/building-global-community/10154544292806634/

They are going to be pushing community and groups hard going forward. I would not be surprised if facebook puts a massive emphasis into fleshing out and adding features to groups over the next 12 months. In order to stop these much larger incredibly active groups from migrating away from the platform they will need additional functionality to manage the huge amount of activity.

It does concern me that if they do start to do this, even doing something as simple as allowing the creation of nodes in groups for categorising content, then it will be harder and harder for these groups to migrate to a self hosted forum where the admin has the ability to monetize or add any custom non-facebook sanctioned features, as even the 'basic' facebook features and ease of use just won't be there and the members won't follow. (Basic features such as push, video upload, event creation, being able to invite members to events - features that help cultivate real life communities off line).
 
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I don't get it, nothing above answers the question quoted.

I did answer the question - facebook groups, reddit and messaging apps to name a few. They're all platforms and tools that people are using to create and partake in thriving communities that take away from forum traffic and contribute to the increased difficulty of new forums from taking off at all.

I often see vibrant communities on there that either would have been dedicated forums in the past, or part of much larger forums.

Take your niche, motorcycle riders. Your ISRA forum has been around for at least 7 years from what I can gather. You have 635 members and 8k posts, with the last post on any public forums being nearly a week old. Yet you also have a facebook group with 25% of your forum membership count. I'd be interested to know how much activity there is in the facbebook group compared to your forum.

Search for 'motorcycle riders' groups, I get mainly groups for certain brands and geographic locations. These are the member counts for the first 10 results:

2k, 10k, 8k, 6k, 11k, 2k, 1k, 2k, 0.3k

These are all individual groups with thousands of members each. It's not hard to find ones with tens of thousands of members and lots of active posts.


Facebook groups along with other tools are tearing apart lots of forum niche's (particularly local ones), because users want more than just a message board. The want better community features such as events and a platform that works seamlessly and fast on all their devices.

XenForo markets itself as 'A Compelling Community Experience', that may have been the case 7 years ago, but it certainly doesn't feel like it at this moment in time. "A compelling message board experience with fantastic extensibility if you have the money to pay a dev, and a pretty decent add on ecosystem", sure. But not a community experience.

Please don't get me wrong, I love forums, communities and XenForo, I think the team here are really fantastic and I have really high hopes to start seeing more new features in 2.x in addition to some of the tweaks they managed to slip in 2.0. But it does feel like forums in general are falling behind when it comes to the tech and features available in other communities software, and there's no strong visible signs that they're currently on track to catch up.


But just by observing the behaviour of people in my circles on different community sites around the web, out of the box forum software doesn't do it for any of them anymore, and even some of the expensive add ons just aren't good enough.

Take Nobita's Groups add on, potentially an absolutely killer add on for a forum. It lets user create and mange their own groups and even create their own full fat sub forums. It's a feature that gives them a reason to invest their time and energy posting content to your site, get together local or other subsets of the community. This idea is going down a treat in the IPS 4.2 preview, admins and users seem to love it.

Lets go back to Nobita's, it's half the cost of a XF licence and generally okay as a group add on goes, but it's also got some major issues. There's a privacy bug that exposes group media galleries to the rest of the site that's not been patched for over a year. How have the other people that bought it put up with that for this long?

I spent hours and hours testing creating bug reports and UI improvement suggestions to make the add on more user friendly. Probably 30 threads worth of stuff that just stood out to me when testing, many of which I felt were confusing UI issues. I shouldn't have to do that for a $70 add on. Please don't take this wrong way Nobita, if you're reading this - I know you're only one person and it's a complex add on, please keep up the great work, we need devs like you making feature rich add ons like social groups! But the fact that we have $50 - $100 add ons that feel so 'unfinished' is a reflection of the state of the add on ecosystem. So few of the complex ones feel up to scratch.

The polish and quality just isn't there, even with some of the expensive add ons. Heck, I love Son B's gallery, but we haven't even had an update in 5 months. It's been 3 months since the new XF HTML5 uploader was release and we don't have integration in the gallery yet - where it's most needed.

Can you blame users from not choosing forums in their current state for starting a new community when not only is the core starting to feel dated, but the expensive add ons have so many bugs, don't feel finished, don't have the features your want or don't live up to expectations in any other way?
 
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Simple question really. Reddit is a nightmare. I own /r/Mustang and all it is is people posting pictures of Mustangs really. It compares in no way to the Ford Mustang forum I built.

I can also relate to this, some subreddits are lacking depending on the user base. The quality of content does vary depending on the community.

The real question is though, if you were to start your Mustang community from scratch all over now, how would you do it?

Could you even do it by starting a forum from scratch these days? How would you get the traffic? How would you get the users to register and post on your brand new mustang site vs any of the hundreds or possibly even thousands of Mustang facebook groups?
 
Any new community starting today will have it infinitely harder than those that have established themselves years back. There's just way more competition in every possible niche than there was back then and XF hasn't really made any groundbreaking changes in forum functionality that would make it better engagement-wise in terms of what comes stock. When even something as simple and crucial as daily/weekly/whatever mail digests of forum activity is not available out of the box, the software is obviously stuck in some other decade. Or century...

Facebook is regularly filling my inbox with a stream of tease blurbs about what's going on in various FB groups that I joined. I probably wouldn't have looked at any of them more than once every few months as I don't use FB much, but those mails keep me in the loop constantly and every time something piques my interest, I pop back in. That kind of functionality should have come with XF by default years ago.
 
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XenForo markets itself as 'A Compelling Community Experience', that may have been the case 7 years ago, but it certainly doesn't feel like it at this moment in time. "A compelling message board experience with fantastic extensibility if you have the money to pay a dev, and a pretty decent add on ecosystem", sure. But not a community experience.
Agreed, well said.
 
Personally, I feel that the ball's been dropped due to XF2 development that's been going on for too long and affecting the current product and addons in terms of lack of development. Hiring Chris D wasn't enough, there just aren't enough people working on both the current products and the future ones. This kind of situation is either due to poor planning or understaffing or both.
 
Facebook is not a forum. It's a completely different type of site. Forums have a long life left and I can't wait for XF 2.0.
 
Sure, continue to believe that discussions on Facebook have more participants than similar discussions on your own forums because of XF not having threaded topics or whatever, rather than the fact that Facebook has billions of dollars behind it, is a full featured social media platform - not a forum (which is what XF sells itself as, so you knew that when you bought it) - and 2+ billion monthly active users.
 
Just because it is a forum, doesn't mean it can't be social, user engaging, or simple to use .. like a social network platform does.
You can't have a rich media content discussion in a forum like you do on instagram, because you have to jump through hoops of navigation and permissions to view a bit of simple content that just wants a <3, like, thanks for sharing, or a quick comment.

Just because a forum is a well done forum package, doesn't mean it can't have features that tailor to the visitor who just wants to quickly participate.

To most a forum still has a learning curve, and requires browsing and a bit of techy approach. It even looks technical with it's "list" of content. Content in a list is no longer how people consume content.

I really do not get it why every time people give the feedback that they're hoping for a more 2017+ rich content - social feature - user engaging approach .. that there is so much push-back.
 
If I was starting a new 'group' now & it didn't need the structure a forum offers I'd do it on Facebook. Outside my own forums all the sites I'm active on are Facebook. I run 2 groups there myself.

My forums subject matter can't be covered in the depth & library/gallery forum style on Facebook. There are plenty of groups covering the same subject & they are attracting a lot of bread & butter members who are either less web savvy & find facebook easier & the show & tellers who will use my forums for research & post their items on Facebook, often with supporting info from my forums.

The native xenforo app is one of the most exciting facebook fight back tools I've seen although it's a high cost for small forums (I have 2 XF forums). I appreciate it's a new 3rd party app but I'd love to see this at an affordable rate or even better, part of the core of XF as standard or affordable extra.
 
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I mean, seriously .. *nobody* in here who is NEW to this thread is going to read through 145 pages of posts. And therefor most won't even participate in this discussion. And those who might have read *every* post, are the ones that feel invested from the start of the thread in this particular topic. There's a lot missing in a board, their forums, their discussions, the posts, the userbase, .. that could make participating much more compelling, right now Maybe on page 73, post 12 .. a staff member might have dropped "click here to download enterprise license to xenforo", and only those active on that day or maybe a day after might know about it. It's lost to everybody else. A lot of us as simply asking "that is great content, bring that forward through social interaction". Right now, the @OP of the post can't even edit their content, because it went past a time limit. The only solution there is now is quote-posting constantly that hidden post. I just don't get it why there's so much negativity towards people suggesting or wishing a forum could be a modern forum, ..

We have a huge thread on xenfans.com where we discuss 'why doesn't xenforo has..' and once in a while I've tried to suggest them for xf2, and xf1, so far 99% has been shot down with 'not something we want, or focus on, or care about, or blah blah'.. progress just doesn't seem welcome, and it's discouraged me from continuing to submit them. Fine, this isn't the platform that solves those questions, instead, the money goes to Paas/SaaS solutions instead. Even if it costs more. But at least the ROI is a lot higher, just because of the obvious.
 
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If I was starting a new 'group' now & it didn't need the structure a forum offers I'd do it on Facebook. Outside my own forums all the sites I'm active on are Facebook. I run 2 groups there myself.

My forums subject matter can't be covered in the depth & library/gallery forum style on Facebook. There are plenty of groups covering the same subject & they are attracting a lot of bread & butter members who are either less web savvy & find facebook easier & the show & tellers who will my forums for research & post their items on Facebook, often with supporting info from my forums.

The native xenforo app is one of the most exciting facebook fight back tools I've seen although it's a high cost for small forums (I have 2 XF forums). I appreciate it's a new 3rd party app but I'd love to see this at an affordable rate or even better, part of the core of XF as standard or affordable extra.

You'd be surprised how many people are part of groups on facebook for small gatherings, monthly bbq, yard sales, local area events, school stuff, college students groups, marketplaces, etc. The discussions are fast, on point, involving, and personal. Because they give local and personal results tailored to that person who goes to college, who tries to sell second hand stuff, who wants to know where to take the kids on sundays as a family away, or stay in touch with family, etc. I also thought nobody was using it until we did a case study and checked with the family and friends around us and I was surprised how many are in 8+ groups and are on them "constantly".

Post a "we have a market this sunday, who's going?" on most forums, and they consider it spam, or it gets closed for 'offtopic, doesn't match our general content", etc.
 
Post a "we have a market this sunday, who's going?" on most forums, and they consider it spam, or it gets closed for 'offtopic, doesn't match our general content", etc.

& those who wouldn't have. have already dead & resurrected on facebook.
 
I mean, seriously .. *nobody* in here who is NEW to this thread is going to read through 145 pages of posts. And therefor most won't even participate in this discussion.

That logic is flawed. People read the last few posts/pages and join conversations. That's also how you do it in reallife. Being recorded does not change anything about that.
 
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