XenForo 2.0 Discussion

[Jawsh]

But looking at the demo, from a user point of view, all I really see is the same old Xenforo with a new skin.

That's genuinely for the best. People don't like things that are different.

I've been playing with XF2 for a while. My intent is to redevelop my custom add-ons for my personal forum so I can sell them on Day 1 when XF2 is launched. This is going well. The new framework is much more flexible and future proofed than the old one. I'd say that they probably could have made it more like Laravel, but it's not too far away from being that sleek.

That said, with the framework being laid out as it is, modders + xf core devs will have the roadwork they need to build features people want. If you had to build a "social media platform" on XF1's framework you'd shoot yourself in the head.

Though I politely disagree that XF2 needs be more than a forum by default. Most people posting on a website want to get in and get out. The community I run processes about 250 million requests per month and has 1000 active users most of the day during US time, and very rarely do "social media" features like the media gallery even get used. Even though the AJAX chatroom is quite busy, the number of users participating in discussion is insignificant to the active population. It's a forum and they use it like a forum. XF2 does the whole "forum" thing very well and their changes to the templating software make it extremely fast, which is what you want.

 

[Russ]

I don't mean to sound the downer - I really do appreciate that there has been a huge amount of work behind the scenes on developing XF2.

But looking at the demo, from a user point of view, all I really see is the same old Xenforo with a new skin.

There are no obvious new features, no new ways of presenting information, no new ways of reaching out to members, nothing that looks new or innovative.

I know Xenforo had a hard time catching up to vbulletin 3 - it was one of the key criticisms for admins looking to switch in earlier versions of XF. I can happily say that - barring a few default features - XF has comfortably surpassed that in terms of user experience.

However, at some point Xenforo needs to sell itself as a social media platform, not just yet another reinvention of an email list. vbulletin 3 did that in 2004 but the world has moved on since - but Xenforo is still looking backwards at that model.

It would be nice if at some point the Xenforo team could start thinking more in terms of trying to dare to be a little different and adapt to the very different world we have now.

Otherwise, XF 2.0 is in danger of being nothing more that the same platform but using different code. Which may or may not be great for coders, but if it has little impact on users - and customers - it's hard to get excited about it.

2c.

To my understanding the goal with the initial launch of 2.0 wasn't to have a ton of new features but to rebuild XF1 with a way more solid foundation. I expect come 2.1 we'll see some really nice new features but ya for me I'd love to get a stable base prior to expanding onto new features.

 

[mauzao9]

I don't see this about how it looks.

I see the problem when it comes to functionality, Xenforo is getting outdated. For example, at this era of how things work on the direction software is taking... Things like live-updates, live-threads well, navigating through one thread without having to load in every page... are expectable and part of today's web.

What path does Xenforo seem to take? It stays locked to the old ways of how things work because that's how they have worked for decades. Same goes for vBulletin and IPB, no wild and fresh approaches to it.

The original point of xF was always that new, fresh look different from how vBulletin and IPB looked and worked, a simple, fast and more social approach to communities, people liked it, I think perhaps they lost the ideology that made xF attractive when it first appeared?

 

[rwm1962]

However, at some point Xenforo needs to sell itself as a social media platform, not just yet another reinvention of an email list

Our social media competition can't offer what we offer except ease of use on mobile device. The responsive design is a big improvement for us but ideally we could do with a proper affordable XF app offering.

Personally I'm not looking to be overwhelmed by XF2. If the code is easier for developers to add new add-ons & continues to be compatible with whatever magic powers the interweb that's good enough for me.

I like my revolutions at 331/3, not 78

 

[Davyc]

I'm wondering if XF2 is the beginning of something better to come, much like IPS 4 when it first launched, but is now adding a raft of useful features aimed more at social media addicts without relegating the forum side of the suite. I would like to believe that this is the thought behind version 2 of XF; get the core stable and then add features later. If this isn't the ideology then XF2 may struggle to compete - of course it depends on what end users are looking for and what they desire to see (not admins, but those using the site on a daily basis). A solid foundation is always best laid before building further, but then if all you lay is the foundation and do nothing - that's not a good idea. Perhaps someone from the development team could enlighten us as to whether this is the plan.

 

[Chris D]

Perhaps someone from the development team could enlighten us as to whether this is the plan.

It has been the plan all along, and we have stated such many times.

What are the goals of 2.0?

A major goal of 2.0 is one that is technical in nature: improve developer efficiency. While this might not be a new feature itself, it benefits all development going forward.

...

So even though these may not be new features directly, these changes are necessary to ensure that speedy development can continue in the future and that add-on developers can make the changes they need with minimal interference from the core.

 

[Hoolio]

Please God let them unleash the hounds of innovation and wonderusness on XF 2.x and not add any of it to XF1.x so that everyone wants a part of it and joins the party.

 

[Brent W]

It would be nice if at some point the Xenforo team could start thinking more in terms of trying to dare to be a little different and adapt to the very different world we have now.

The world isn't that different from 10-13 years ago. Twitter is still Twitter, Facebook still looks like Facebook and forums still are growing at a great rate.

What has changed is that some niches found better ways to solve problems, such as the Technology niche. Stackoverflow isn't a forum but it killed a lot of tech forums out there. There isn't anything that XenForo or any other forum software could do to prevent that from happening.

I am all for making content easier to find in forums, especially content that specific users would be interested over other content. I am absolutely opposed to this idea that forums are dying and XenForo needs to reinvent the wheel though.

My only complaint with XF 2 is their mind boggling hack job of a mobile navigation bar that shows up for desktop users and their insistence on representing new post content twice, under different urls.

 

[mauzao9]

What has changed is that some niches found better ways to solve problems, such as the Technology niche. Stackoverflow isn't a forum but it killed a lot of tech forums out there. There isn't anything that XenForo or any other forum software could do to prevent that from happening.

Why would Xenforo want to prevent others from finding better ways and implementations of something?

Why shouldn't Xenforo instead learn with such cases and implement them to its own software?

 

[Gladius]

I'm really hoping that once XF2 is out the development on the official addons also picks up because as it is, I have a bad feeling of deja vu from the vB times. They've seen hardly any development worth mentioning in literally years except for bug fixes and yet the renewal fees still stack up the same as when there was actual development of new features going on. I realize that they all need to be recoded for XF2, but this hiatus has been going on for literally years now with what, another year or two at least before we actually see any new features? The RM for instance has had a number of very highly requested features in need of implementation for years and we're still waiting... and waiting... and waiting...

 

[Brent W]

Why would Xenforo want to prevent others from finding better ways and implementations of something?

Why shouldn't Xenforo instead learn with such cases and adapt them to its own software?

Because it is a forum software. Make it easier to find content but look elsewhere if you want to compete in a Q/A niche. I don't want this software to turn into bloatware just because someone wants to use it as a Stackoverflow or Facebook.

 

[Wildcat Media]

The last thing I want is to "social media-ize" a forum. Keep that crap out of our forums please. We have a responsive view, so we are unlike others who force us to clutter up our phones with more garbage apps that are nothing more than lame browser shells.

And keep that auto-loading page nonsense away from our forums also.

XF2 is plenty good enough. Start dumbing it down to the social media level of stupidity, and you'll drive members away.

 

[Davyc]

@Chris D the plan is for third party developers to have a solid base to work from, that's great, but what about core features? Third party add-ons can be excellent, but they soon build up a cost that, over time, can outstrip several times over the cost of the first party software very quickly.

@Brent W I would agree and disagree with you regarding the state of the world compared to 10-13 years ago; agree the world itself isn't that different, but people in it are, along with their mindsets. Forums, in general, are dying in as much as anyone attempting to launch a new forum is batting against the wind, 10 years ago a new forum would attract attention, now they mostly attract dust. Forums are still useful, but mainly in the support arena. Long established forums and specialist niche forums with little or no competition are not the future for new admins looking at mainstream niches. There may be many new forums springing up and software sales may be stable or increasing somewhat, but the majority of those new forums will probably all become dead ducks in a big pond.

 

[mauzao9]

Because its a forum software. Make it easier to find content but look elsewhere if you want to compete in a Q/A niche. I don't want this software to turn into bloatware just because someone wants to use it as a Stackoverflow or Facebook.

When it comes to technology, Xenforo is still stuck on ajax calls to "emulate" live-updates, and limited because of the performance impact. gg PHP.

The last thing I want is to "social media-ize" a forum. Keep that crap out of our forums please.

Crap? One of the things Xenforo was sold on when it came around now is crap?

The social features of XF came from one selling point for the software that IPB and vBulletin didn't had yet, to pretty much the most neglected features...

 

[Wildcat Media]

Because it is a forum software. Make it easier to find content but look elsewhere if you want to compete in a Q/A niche. I don't want this software to turn into bloatware just because someone wants to use it as a Stackoverflow or Facebook.

Well spoken.

A forum is like Stackoverflow but without the snotty, elitist attitudes of longtime members...

 

[Gladius]

Please let's not get into "I don't want XF to be X because I need it just to be Y and everyone should run their community the same way I do". That's beyond silly reasoning.

 

[Brent W]

Forums are still useful, but mainly in the support arena.

Disagree 100%.

Forums, in general, are dying in as much as anyone attempting to launch a new forum is batting against the wind, 10 years ago a new forum would attract attention, now they mostly attract dust.

Disagree 100%. The problem is people either try to start a forum to get rich or they do it with no patience. In 2003 when I started my Ford Mustang forum the forum market was completely saturated and I had to fight and fight for every bit of traffic I got. But I was passionate about the subject and eventually it became one of the largest Ford Mustang websites on the internet.

Forums being hard to start in general saturated niches existed 15 years ago.

Long established forums and specialist niche forums with little or no competition are not the future for new admins looking at mainstream niches. There may be many new forums springing up and software sales may be stable or increasing somewhat, but the majority of those new forums will probably all become dead ducks in a big pond.

Most of them will because people have short attention spans these days and expect instant gratification. It took me 3-4 years to even begin to get any kind of legitimate momentum going with my first forum.

 

[Brent W]

Please let's not get into "I don't want XF to be X because I need it just to be Y and everyone should run their community the same way I do". That's beyond silly reasoning.

No it isn't. There are people that want to completely take XF and turn it into something else and it is a valid discussion to be had on whether or not that is a good idea.

 

[Brent W]

When it comes to technology, Xenforo is still stuck on ajax calls to "emulate" live-updates, and limited because of the performance impact. gg PHP.

That has nothing to do with changing the entire scope of the software from Forums to something else, which is what I am referring to.

 

[Davyc]

Most of them will because people have short attention spans these days and expect instant gratification. It took me 3-4 years to even begin to get any kind of legitimate momentum going with my first forum.

And therein lies the problem, hence the change in people's attitudes. It's highly unlikely that anyone today will invest several years to, hopefully, gain ground. So with that in mind we will just agree to disagree because you will not convince me and I will not convince you.