XF 2.4 general discussion, feedback, complaints, random off topic posts, etc.

dutchbb said:
Point is nothing we do will solve that
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I'm not so sure about this. I can post the same article on WordPress and XenForo. It will tank on xenforo. I can get top position with WordPress.

I think this is one of the factors:
Alpha1

Thread 'Reduce HTML output to boost performance & SEO'

XF2.3 has greatly boosted performance. I hope that further improvements can be made by optimizing the HTML output. A GTMetrix report for XF2.3 shows excessive DOM size with almost 3400 elements on a page and 103 child elements :

Screenshot_20240917_150902_Firefox.webp

Maybe waiting time for the page to load can also be reduced?

I hope that addon developers will posts their feedback on further boosting performance to this thread.
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Wing said:
So their opinion is that XF should just stick its head in the dirt, and not look at some exciting new modernizations for the platform?
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I didn't say that though. However I'm sure some people are very happy not to have new features but I said nothing about sticking their head in the dirt. I've nearly always been happy to try out some of the new features xenForo as added over the years - some I've adopted, others not.

OTOH I don't think it would be a disaster (for me) if xenForo didn't add new features.
 
Mr Lucky said:
OTOH I don't think it would be a disaster (for me) if xenForo didn't add new features.
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Again, the point here is that people are concerned about the obvious lack of movement forward to keep the brand sustained going into the future. Ironically, a dying platform would eventually become a disaster for you in the long run.

Which is why there is much enthusiasm here for there to be new excitement, innovation, and modernizations that will continue feeding new customers into Xenforo. This is also why its frustrating that certain loyalists in here - cant seem to be realistic with the reality now a days... and will literally "sink with the ship" if it means they remain oblivious to the concerns and writings on the wall right now.
 
dutchbb said:
I'm pretty sure it is mostly google's fault.

My traffic dropped 4 times around 20-30% on a few days after search ranking updates.

Even with changes, and there are been a lot over the years, lower visitors will end every site.
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It's partially Google's fault - but if FORUMS never began to fade-away in the first place, Google would still value them the same way they used to. Reddit and Quora are forums - but they're not stagnant. And now they have the top rankings... Forums... With top rankings...

OUR, meaning "non multi billion dollar corporate owned" forums have been fading for years. Ever since the new social media platforms went mainstream. If forums acted then, we would not be in such a bad position. NATURALLY, as more social media options become available - our forums are going to lose traffic and participation. But that does not mean they should practically die the way they have been...

Think about it. Facebook exists. Twitter/X exists. Instagram exists. Snapchat exists. This exists, that exists, Reddit exists, Quora exists. ALL DOING EXCELLENT! Which social media has been dying a slow death? OUR FORUMS...

Some of us have been advocating for forums to SIMPLY OFFER AN OPTION so that those who VISIT YOUR WEBSITE can interact the way they do in other places - IF THEY CHOOSE TO...

One of the biggest reasons this has STILL not happened is because the LOUDEST voices say, "Oh no! I HATE Facebook! I don't want my forum to be another Facebook". Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? The idea is to OFFER, AS AN OPTION, a layout that new age social media users are MORE COMFORTABLE PARTICIPATING WITH.

We are not advocating for xenForo to CHANGE into a new social media platform. We are ONLY asking to ALLOW the OPTION for those who prefer to browse that way - to HAVE that option. WHY? So they can STAY, READ, REACT, PARTICIPATE, and GIVE YOUR COMMUNITY FREE DATA!

edit: TO NOTE! All of this is simply one page: What's new. That's all - nothing else. Everything else is the same as always - and the single page change is optional at that. It only changes XenForo - on that single page - if you want to offer it. I really just don't understand the resistance...
Alvin63 said:
I still think it maybe depends on site topic. If a forum has a topic that can't be easily found or interacted with uniquely in social media, people join it and accept the way it works perhaps and don't particularly think about it. They're there for the topic.

A forum could be seen as a middle ground maybe. I have older users who struggle to even use a forum! And are definitely not up to using social media and find it overwhelming.

That's how I see Xenforo anyway and partly why I chose it - it has a few social media type features, like the "likes". It's easy to upload photos and post videos. Other forum softwares are pretty text based and very clunky with photo adding and manually typing in emojis! Now that would be old fashioned and off putting to young people. Heck they still do hand writing and exams in real life - they're not totally all on social media all the time.

I'm not knocking the idea of new features but I just think - why would a forum want to be the same as social media?


I blame that AI snippet at the top of google - it's all you get to see! So much for coming at the top of page 1 of google now!
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My reply here is the same as I replied above...
 
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Wing said:
Again, the point here is that people are concerned about the obvious lack of movement forward to keep the brand sustained going into the future. Ironically, a dying platform would eventually become a disaster for you in the long run.
Click to expand...
And yet those people might argue that changing loads of stuff for the sake of innovation might put many existing users off.
Wing said:
This is also why its frustrating that certain loyalists in here - cant seem to be realistic with the reality now a days... and will literally "sink with the ship" if it means they remain oblivious to the concerns and writings on the wall right now.
Click to expand...
But there are also many who want lots of new features thinking its the only way to survive, yet the same people (not mentioning any names) aren't very good at SEO and usability. Which may be a far bigger issue given competition from AI, reddit, big online stores, and Youtube influencers.
 
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Alpha1 said:
I'm not so sure about this. I can post the same article on WordPress and XenForo. It will tank on xenforo. I can get top position with WordPress.

I think this is one of the factors:
Alpha1

Thread 'Reduce HTML output to boost performance & SEO'

XF2.3 has greatly boosted performance. I hope that further improvements can be made by optimizing the HTML output. A GTMetrix report for XF2.3 shows excessive DOM size with almost 3400 elements on a page and 103 child elements :

Screenshot_20240917_150902_Firefox.webp

Maybe waiting time for the page to load can also be reduced?

I hope that addon developers will posts their feedback on further boosting performance to this thread.
  • Alpha1
  • better seo google ranking page html page optimization pagespeed performance seo
  • Replies: 9
  • Forum: XenForo suggestions
  • Like
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Other possibility is that google detects XenForo as a forum and ranks it lower.

I tried many things over the years to no effect.
 
Mr Lucky said:
And yet those people might argue that changing loads of stuff for the sake of innovation might put many existing users off.

But there are also may who want lots of new features thinking its the only way to survive, yet the same people (not mentioning any names) aren't very good at SEO and usability. Which may be a far bigger issue given completion from AI, reddit, big online stores, and Youtube influencers.
Click to expand...

See here: https://xenforo.com/community/threa...andom-off-topic-posts-etc.225303/post-1747364
 
Sal Collaziano said:
It's possible considering Google most likely sees forums as an old and unappreciated form of discussion.
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It is the same as reddit.

It is just many forums in one place with a comment structure that has been used in the past.

Why rank and crawl many forums when you can get it from one place.

That said, content discovery on reddit is much better..
 
dutchbb said:
How can you compete if they rank better in google search?

If nobody finds you there is nothing to do.
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They rank better in search because more people are there using and appreciating the platform while constantly producing more data. I know how to get traffic from new social media - so I do. The problem lies with those users not being comfortable with the platform. If they were given an OPTION to browse in a way more similar to the way they do all day long - then they'd be more likely to participate - which means reactions, shares, replies, new posts, more data, more interaction, and more stuff for Google to rank - and a site that Google sees as more valuable.

I'm surprised you asked that question.
 
Sal Collaziano said:
They rank better in search because more people are there using and appreciating the platform while constantly producing more data. I know how to get traffic from new social media - so I do. The problem lies with those users not being comfortable with the platform. If they were given an OPTION to browse in a way more similar to the way they do all day long - then they'd be more likely to participate - which means reactions, shares, replies, new posts, more data, more interaction, and more stuff for Google to rank - and a site that Google sees as more valuable.

I'm surprised you asked that question.
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They rank better because google wants them to rank better. That is why more people find and use it.

Bigger and older forums have enough content and reputation to rank better, but they don't.

Explain the sudden drops of users after google search updates. If this was gradual over time i would understand.
 
An update like this should have had an impact on search rankings, but it didn't.

Chris D

XF 2.3 Thread 'Boosting performance in XenForo 2.3'

googlechrome.github.io_lighthouse_viewer_ (4).png
In today's 'Have you seen...?' entry for XenForo 2.3 we're going to look at how we've zeroed in on enhancing performance, ensuring your community has a swift and seamless experience. We're going to take a deep dive into the advancements we've made and how they stack up against various performance metrics.

But, before we get into the individual changes, let's take a quick look at the baseline - this is our current Performance score as calculated by Lighthouse for the XenForo Community forum list:

googlechrome.github.io_lighthouse_viewer_.png

​
Here's the performance scores for some other forum software...
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Or this
Chris D

XF 2.3 Thread 'Image optimization, enhanced image resizing, and more!'

Image optimization with WebP support​

Arguably, we could have talked about this in our bumper Boosting performance entry but it wasn't quite ready to be shown at that point. (I started working on it this week and I haven't yet mastered the art of time travel).

Initially the scope of our WebP support in XenForo 2.3 was to merely allow users to upload WebP files and have them correctly displayed inline. This would have been a positive change on its own as the format becomes more prevalent across the web, but it doesn't really do much on its own to solve the issue of disk usage...
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dutchbb said:
They rank better because google wants them to rank better. That is why more people find and use it.

Bigger and older forums have enough content and reputation to rank better, but they don't.

Explain the sudden drops of users after google search updates. If this was gradual over time i would understand.
Click to expand...
For the most part, the drops HAVE been gradual - though the most recent update was a big one... The bottom line is, the more people are discovering your forum, the more will use it - IF they're comfortable enough to do so. Even without Google, my forums are still moving along and people are still finding them. The problem is, only the old school users are participating. The new age social media people come, see, and leave. That's a lot of data that I should have had building my community. We can survive without Google. It's not all about Google.
 
Sal Collaziano said:
For the most part, the drops HAVE been gradual - though the most recent update was a big one... The bottom line is, the more people are discovering your forum, the more will use it - IF they're comfortable enough to do so. Even without Google, my forums are still moving along and people are still finding them. The problem is, only the old school users are participating. The new age social media people come, see, and leave.
Click to expand...
No, those drops have not been gradual. In active users yes, but not visitors.

Again, you have to find it to discover it. And most of that traffic is from google.
 
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dutchbb said:
An update like this should have had an impact on search rankings, but it didn't.
Click to expand...
Page load time, First Painful Content or whatever it's called is all technical SEO. It's the kind of stuff may so-called SEO experts charge you to do because they can do it. But it's the more meaningful and useful content that seems to be the real SEO. That and being reddit helps.
 
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