Add-on XenReviews [CrowdFund]

[Alpha1]

It's very simple. If xenreviews will get delivered according to the agreed specifications then there is no issue at all.
If XenReviews is not delivered according to the agreed specifications while another project is delivered with same functionality in it then we will claim copyrights over it.
As long as we see significant progress with XenReviews releases, we will be happy and see no issue.

This is not about license sales. Its solely about the project you agreed to, was paid to deliver and which you guaranteed would get delivered or refunded.

 

[Chris D]

@Mike Edge @Daniel Hood

If you two want to continue bickering, please do so in private messages.

Daniel, as much as there are reasons for where we are today, there are also reasons for why this thread continues to attract such negativity.

Your current approach, I'm afraid to say, doesn't appear to be working so my advice to you is that you start providing updates before they are asked for, at a more frequent interval than currently and begin to make a more acceptable amount of progress on this.

Please give some thought to how this can be brought to a satisfactory conclusion in a more acceptable timeframe.

 

[Daniel Hood]

If you two want to continue bickering, please do so in private messages.

I think it might be worth including the names of who you were talking about (obviously we know who it is). Anyone who wasn't reading during the times of the missing posts would think you're referring to Alfa1 and I which isn't fair to him.

there are also reasons for why this thread continues to attract such negativity.

I know. I've addressed that. I'm not confused why people are responding the way they are and I try my hardest to respond calmly because I understand their point of view. I know sometimes I slip up in that regard but that's due to the situation being less than ideal for me too.

start providing updates before they are asked for, at a more frequent interval than currently

Noted. However, I feel like the last update was not that long ago. I'm open to making an official schedule for updates as long as it doesn't result in me getting my head chewed off every time I post. How frequently do I need to post to keep everyone relaxed (this question isn't directed to Chris necessarily)?

It's very simple. If xenreviews will get delivered according to the agreed specifications then there is no issue at all.
If XenReviews is not delivered according to the agreed specifications while another project is delivered with same functionality in it then we will claim copyrights over it.
As long as we see significant progress with XenReviews releases, we will be happy and see no issue.

This is not about license sales. Its solely about the project you agreed to, was paid to deliver and which you guaranteed would get delivered or refunded.

The part that I'm not understanding is that these features, despite having similar names and some overlapping functionality, are not the same. I'm confused because when I talked to you about using classifieds as a base for restarting xenreviews you quickly pointed out how different they are. Now you're essentially saying I'm copying xenreviews code to make a similar add on. My plan hasn't changed, I'm still trying to get xenreviews stable and released to spec. I realize it's still not a pace you (as a group) want but it's not like I stopped working on it. Less than 2 weeks ago I posted some pretty big visual changes to it. The only reason I brought up licenses was because the amount of money I received was brought up again.

Anyways, if someone can answer my question from this post, I'll try to post that frequently at least saying "in the past x timeframe, I've done this. My goal for the next x timeframe is this." If that's what you guys want and it legitimately makes you guys not attack me every couple weeks, I'm fine with it.

Happy Easter to those that celebrate the holiday.

 

[Ozzy47]

Noted. However, I feel like the last update was not that long ago. I'm open to making an official schedule for updates as long as it doesn't result in me getting my head chewed off every time I post. How frequently do I need to post to keep everyone relaxed (this question isn't directed to Chris necessarily)?

Well if I were in your situation, I would do it like this.

List everything that still needs to be done to the addon, that way the funders can get a idea of the current state of the project, and what is left to be done. Give a general timeframe of when they can expect it to be done, like Q3, Q4, Q1 2017.

Then at the end of each day, list what you have solved, if nothing solved in the day(s), then post at least weekly to let them know what you have been working on.

Come up with a official announcement concerning your time you are able to allocate to the project, and the time allotted by anyone else working on it. You have previously posted that Liam was going to be working on this, but then yesterday you said that he was spending 95% of his time working in your other mods. By flip flopping who is doing what is one of the reasons the project is in the state it is in. Come up with a business plan, and stick to it. All the back and forth switching things just confuses people leading them to more frustration.

I certainly would not be spending seven plus hours on here arguing with people like happened yesterday. All that is going to do is make you look wrong. In your statement you could say that you are not going to be answering any more questions in this thread unless it is during the time that you have set aside to post your updates in this thread.

HTH

 

[Alpha1]

I realize it's still not a pace you (as a group) want but it's not like I stopped working on it.

When we were asked to pay you for the project we were guaranteed that this project would be worked on full time. That's the pace we should be getting. Not 1-2 hours a week while you divert most of your time to a very similar large project.

Communication is good as long as its not an endless stream of excuses explaining why nothing happened month after month. Please show us real progress that goes beyond adding a sidebar block in a month. Please keep your development install online so we can see progress just as you said you would.

The part that I'm not understanding is that these features, despite having similar names and some overlapping functionality, are not the same.

In regards to feature overlap between Classifieds and XenReviews its simple: both addons are vaporware until released. Until released its unclear what code will be Classifieds and what code will be XenReviews. Especially since you are replacing parts of XenReviews and even contemplate replacing all of it. As you stated before: (some of) the same code could be used for both because there is a lot of feature overlap.

XenReviews and Classifieds are the only addons that are going to have packages functionality to sell paid listings. Both concern item creation with custom fields, filters, reviews, gallery, item status, item type, featured items, google maps, payments, wallet, drafts, item discussion, terms & conditions, etc. If you compare the features then its remarkably similar. Roughly 90% the same features.

The difference could be the implementation, but no one knows until the vaporware is actually delivered. I hope that the agreed requirements will still be met, and that XenReviews will not come out botched to suit preferences of classifieds customers.

I just want to see a working XenReviews release in the very near future. We have waited years for this project and 9 months for you to get into action.

As it stands now I have paid you $1000 and gotten nothing in return.

And while you say that you are still committed to releasing XenReviews it doesn't look like we will actually receive the completed software, because we are not seeing significant ongoing progress. Change that and everyone will be happy.

 

[LPH]

How frequently do I need to post to keep everyone relaxed (this question isn't directed to Chris necessarily)?

we are not seeing significant ongoing progress. Change that and everyone will be happy.

May I suggest a simple diary thread approach? Place a thread in XenReviews announcements that only @Daniel Hood can update. Name the thread March Development (soon add another thread titled April Development, etc). Post changes made at the end of the day. It doesn't need to be a huge post, something simple and direct. For example: fixed xyz bug or a screenshot of a change, etc.

People pay good money for your products - and they are awesome. I know you will get XenReviews under control. The stress must be awful and a simple diary thread might help everyone relax.

 

[Daniel Hood]

I will start posting on Mondays (no particular time of day, sometimes it'll be morning and some evening -- potentially even late at night) to highlight what I've done since the previous Monday and what my plan is for the next week. If it's a holiday weekend or Monday is a holiday, my post may not come until Tuesday). If for some reason I make no progress in the week, I'll post why along with a reason. I don't forsee that coming up but if it does I am not going to debate about whether my reason/excuse is acceptable or not.

 

[Alpha1]

I'd like to see weekly or bi-weekly releases again.

 

[sgr]

Is anyone running a beta version of XenReviews on a live site (albeit with basic functionality) ?

If yes, which version are you running?

 

[Mike Edge]

I'd like to see weekly or bi-weekly releases again.

Same, not just a "I added this, but it's not view able yet" thread update. I'd like to see bi-weekly alpha releases that we can compare what was fixed over the last two weeks on our own test boards, report new bugs from changes made etc.

As @Alfa1 said, it's time to start to divert most of your time to this project as promised when it was funded as a full time project.

 

[Daniel Hood]

It being treated as a full time job is not going to happen. I can't make that more clear. I never said I'd be working on it full time, I said that I wouldn't be working on other projects outside of my full time job while I was working on this but since then things changed. We don't need to continue to visit the history books.

I will communicate on a weekly basis as I just said. I hear you guys on the releases, I will attempt to get code to you guys more often. Weekly or even bi weekly releases are not something I'm willing to commit to. In order to build a release, I essentially have to export 3 add-on xml files, package all the right files for each one, make sure it installs right, etc.. It's rather tedious and takes up to or over an hour. That's fine when I have something worthwhile to send you guys but to have an arbitrary schedule for it even when there's nothing substantial is silly.

 

[Mike Edge]

I will communicate on a weekly basis as I just said. I hear you guys on the releases, I will attempt to get code to you guys more often. Weekly or even bi weekly releases are not something I'm willing to commit to. In order to build a release, I essentially have to export 3 add-on xml files, package all the right files for each one, make sure it installs right, etc.. It's rather tedious and takes up to or over an hour. That's fine when I have something worthwhile to send you guys but to have an arbitrary schedule for it even when there's nothing substantial is silly.

Have you considered using GIT or SVN? Then when you make a change you can just simply submit it to the repository, where then we can just do a pull to get the changes made into our dev boards? This would also save you the time of needing to make a thread and remembering to make it every monday as you can just comment your changes to each push.

 

[Daniel Hood]

Yes, I'd still have to export all the xmls and test the install though. Plus there's people that want to use XenReviews but don't know git/svn and how to pull and all that. Plus there's likely people that want to see the posts and follow the project without actually bothering with any version before the 'gold' release.

 

[Alpha1]

As long as this project is put on the back burner in favor of other projects I can only expect the same as we have been getting so far. Which basically means that receiving the full project we paid for is not happening in the foreseeable future. The end conclusion would be that we then have been scammed.
Am I reading your words correctly and is this paid project on the back burner?

 

[Daniel Hood]

As I've been saying, getting this project completed is a priority of mine. It's just not my top priority, surviving and doing what's best for my family is my top priority. If you cannot understand that, I don't know. I'm not abandoning the project, I'm working on it, I'm trying to make adjustments with the communication and how everything is working. It is just not possible for me to make XenReviews the only thing I work on.

 

[Alpha1]

That's exactly the same as you have been saying in the last 9 months without any usable release. This is a massive project that we paid you thousands for. It cannot be completed by spending a few hours a week. At that rate we will see xenforo 3 before xenreviews gold.

A project as big as this needs significant commitment in manhours. It's not realistic to promise that you will deliver within any reasonable time frame without committing a significant amount of time.

In regards to supporting your family. We already paid you thousands so the fact that you already cashed in should not be an argument for putting this project on the back burner.

 

[The Sandman]

As I've been saying, getting this project completed is a priority of mine. It's just not my top priority, surviving and doing what's best for my family is my top priority. If you cannot understand that, I don't know. I'm not abandoning the project, I'm working on it, I'm trying to make adjustments with the communication and how everything is working. It is just not possible for me to make XenReviews the only thing I work on.

This is rhetoric - you are dancing around the issue with words. You say that that completion of this project is "a priority" of yours except that you have other, higher priorities that essentially push this down to being a relatively low priority. You talk of progress but haven't actually shown any in ages, and refuse to commit to anything specific.

This is a hard pill to swallow when you personally organized this project, gave your personal guarantee about this product, and all the while continue to develop and sell other add-ons on XF.com, seemingly neglecting a responsibility that should should have been fulfilled at least a year ago.

 

[Mike Edge]

If anything, since there is already another successful classifieds add-on and receiving a good deal of updates. I would think you would had put classifieds on the back burner and put all those hours your dedicating into it, into reviews instead considering no other exists you could sell a lot of licenses in the near future to support your family with. Had you put as much effort into reviews as you did classifieds, you'd almost be ready for a gold release.

As you even said yourself.. You said "I said that I wouldn't be working on other projects outside of my full time job"... Funny how that promise changed as soon as you received the money to do that.

 

[Daniel Hood]

In regards to supporting your family. We already paid you thousands so the fact that you already cashed in should not be an argument for putting this project on the back burner.

We've had this conversation. This isn't really a debatable point. No number of times we go back throughout history is going to change the fact that this is how it is. No guilt trip is going to make me change my mind that supporting my kids is more important than a project I was removed from.

That's exactly the same as you have been saying in the last 9 months without any usable release.

You talk of progress but haven't actually shown any in ages

And as I pointed out, the code I was told to start with was terrible. I had to downgrade it and maybe that took me longer to do than it should have but it was done approximately a month ago. Since then, I've depreciated and removed a core component of XenReviews. I've addressed what was at one point the biggest complaint with XenGrid which was the map system not working. I've switched to supporting bd widget framework which was an original requirement. I've cleaned up some code. I got the item view working. Server errors hardly ever happen. 9 months ago, I had a mess dumped on my lap, I had to shift my entire business model in order to take that on. The past month has been relatively good for XenReviews which is why I'm a little blindsided by this outrage again all the sudden.

and refuse to commit to anything specific.

I will start posting on Mondays (no particular time of day, sometimes it'll be morning and some evening -- potentially even late at night) to highlight what I've done since the previous Monday and what my plan is for the next week. If it's a holiday weekend or Monday is a holiday, my post may not come until Tuesday). If for some reason I make no progress in the week, I'll post why along with a reason. I don't forsee that coming up but if it does I am not going to debate about whether my reason/excuse is acceptable or not.

Seems the opposite of refusing but whatever.

This is a hard pill to swallow when you personally organized this project, gave your personal guarantee about this product, and all the while continue to develop and sell other add-ons on XF.com, seemingly neglecting a responsibility that should should have been fulfilled at least a year ago.

Yes, I organized it. And before I got kicked out, I spent 0 time on anything besides my day job (which I made clear I had one before I organized it) and XenReviews. Once I got kicked out, I took on other things. Nobody cared until Jeff bailed. Now I'm supposed to drop everything and take it back? I'm repeating myself.

 

[Alpha1]

That's not the complete the truth is it?
You were asked to come back to the project. And you accepted if we would pay you by the hour for the very same project that we already paid you for. And of which you took the lionshare of the crowdfund income. (2500 of the 3600)

So please don't try to make it look like this is not your responsibility for the contract that you have with the people who paid you to develop this software.

This is not about your kids. It's about you living up to your responsibility with all the time commitments that go with it. Or it will be about us getting scammed.