Add-on XenReviews [CrowdFund]

[The Sandman]

Nobody cared about Jeff (if that's even true) because you organized the project, you guaranteed the product, and you assured us that Jeff was the man to get the job done. This is 100% on you. There was no Jeff at the beginning - there was only you. Jeff wasn't even an XF community member - you introduced him to us. The project was built on your reputation as a capable and trustworthy add-on developer. You shouldn't have taken him on in the first place if you weren't sure about his ability to deliver and/or if you weren't willing to deal with the negative result of his involvement.

 

[Daniel Hood]

You were asked to come back to the project. And you accepted if we would pay you by the hour for the very same project that we already paid you for. And of which you took the lionshare of the crowdfund income. (2500 of the 3600)

None of that is true. I didn't take $2500 of $3600. I accepted the project back because Jeff made it clear he was leaving whether I took it back or not. I told him that my biggest problem with taking it back was that I required x hours at my hourly rate to support my family. The conversation eventually got manipulated into I could drop my current work load and take it back for an hourly rate but seeing as nobody is paying that, I obviously didn't make it conditional on that at all.

So please don't try to make it look like this is not your responsibility for the contract that you have with the people who paid you to develop this software.

Look, I know I started the project and I am trying to finish it. There are limitations to how it can be done.

It's about you living up to your responsibility with all the time commitments that go with it.

Which, I am attempting to do.

Or it will be about us getting scammed.

You guys were not. I am working on it. I will deliver. Obviously not when you guys want, but when I can.

Nobody cared about Jeff (if that's even true) because you organized the project, you guaranteed the product, and you assured us that Jeff was the man to get the job done. This is 100% on you. There was no Jeff at the beginning - there was only you. Jeff wasn't even an XF community member - you introduced him to us. The project was built on your reputation as a capable and trustworthy add-on developer. You shouldn't have taken him on in the first place if you weren't sure about his ability to deliver and/or if you weren't willing to deal with the negative result of his involvement.

Sure at the beginning. I'm not talking about the start. I'm talking about 3 months in when Jeff started to force me out. We have all discussed this in detail quite a bit. This is a poor use of everyone's time. I'm not talking about the past anymore. We can discuss the future if you guys would like.

 

[The Sandman]

I'm talking about 3 months in when Jeff started to force me out.

Not sure how he could "force you out" if it was your project. You make it sound like he beat you up and stole your milk money. It must have suited your purposes to allow him to take over if you permitted it to happen. Clearly it didn't work out the way you expected but again, it's 100% on you.

And you keep saying you don't want to talk about the past yet you're the one who keeps bringing up Jeff whenever someone questions the lack of progress. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Alpha1]

I obviously didn't make it conditional on that at all.

Your alternative solution was that you would take a 75% stake and Jeff a 25%. Which was a really greedy and unfair proposal considering that you were not the one who put in all the work.
As we would not pay you by the hour for a project we already paid you for and you would also not get a 75% stake, you were not willing to come back to the project. So saying you were pushed out of the project by your developer over work ethics is not the complete truth, so please do not use it as any defense or excuse for your current responsibilities.

 

[Daniel Hood]

And you keep saying you don't want to talk about the past yet you're the one who keeps bringing up Jeff whenever someone questions the lack of progress. You can't have it both ways.

I bring up Jeff whenever someone mentioned how much money I got or how long this project has taken. I don't want to talk about the past because there's nothing new to talk about with it. I've said everything I will ever have to say on it unless people mention new things like "you took the lionshare of the crowdfund".

Not sure how he could "force you out" if it was your project. You make it sound like he beat you up and stole your milk money.

Pretty simply, as I mentioned he had the server, I had the domain. He had more time to work on it and did more than I did which everyone loved. He started releasing versions without any of my code and calling me out for contributing nothing because my contributions weren't included. All stuff I've mentioned already.

Your alternative solution was that you would take a 75% stake and Jeff a 25%. Which was a really greedy and unfair proposal considering that you were not the one who put in all the work.
As we would not pay you by the hour for a project we already paid you for and you would also not get a 75% stake, you were not willing to come back to the project. So saying you were pushed out of the project by your developer over work ethics is not the complete truth, so please do not use it as any defense or excuse for your current responsibilities.

I feel like you're playing a really bad version of the telephone game. Jeff and I have skyped hundreds of thousands of messages. He tried doing everything he could to bring me back to the project after I had been out for a very long time. His ideas included me finishing the project and supporting it for the next ever while he did new things. I told him it was unrealistic. He gave me a guilt trip and I told him that I didn't have the time because I was dependent on the business I built after he took the project over. He asked something along the lines of if I could work on it if I was paid hourly which is obvious. Then he apparently took snippets of our conversations and ran to you with the parts that make me seem terrible. I never demanded anything.

 

[Alpha1]

I didn't take $2500 of $3600.

You stated that you took close to 3000. Which included some license sales. But in the end the exact amounts do not matter. You took thousands and should deliver in return.

He tried doing everything he could to bring me back to the project

Indeed. Because the project is so large and it needs significant time commitment.

Which, I am attempting to do.

Attempting to commit time? What we need from you is that you take up full responsibility and commit the time needed. Not take up other large projects to divert your time to.

 

[The Sandman]

Pretty simply, as I mentioned he had the server, I had the domain. He had more time to work on it and did more than I did which everyone loved. He started releasing versions without any of my code and calling me out for contributing nothing because my contributions weren't included. All stuff I've mentioned already.

But you were the project manager. You organized the project. You guaranteed success. This was and is 100% your responsibility. Blaming Jeff isn't working and won't magically start working regardless of how many times you repeat it.

 

[Mike Edge]

I'm still not understanding why this project is a lower priority over other projects your currently working on. You took on Classifieds AFTER you announced returning to the project and made this big song and dance of how things were changing for your company.. how you were dedicated to this project again, how you were hiring staff, how you were hoping to quit your day job soon and focus strictly on your business. Please explain why you chose to make Classifieds a higher priority as I just don't understand why you would. It was funded by one person and you claim hasn't sold any licenses yet.. Yet this project was funded by a community that trusted your reputation and even sold licenses after the funding was completed. Please don't use providing for your family either as the excuse as to why you went the route you did as you either provided for your family using the two grand plus you already received, or other wise it would still be in a savings account that you can use to issue refunds. Personally, I wouldn't have hard feelings if even I got burnt not receiving a refund, just as long as the people who invested big money into you did receive there's, like Alfa who I know gave you a grand and Brent who purchased bulk licenses. I basically now feel from your continued bad attitude regarding this have written it off as another broken promise and scammed.. Shame too as I really thought you were a pretty decent guy up until recently.

 

[Daniel Hood]

You stated that you took close to 3000. Which included some license sales. But in the end the exact amounts do not matter. You took thousands and should deliver in return.

I may have potentially added a thousand to it on accident due to typing fast and numbers not really being the point of this to me. There's absolutely no way that I took over half.

Indeed. Because the project is so large and it needs significant time commitment.

No. Because he wanted/needed to stop to move to something else. He wasn't ever coming to me to 'help'. He was coming to me with 'Your turn. I want to do other things'.

Attempting to commit time? What we need from you is that you take up full responsibility and commit the time needed.

No, attempting to finish the add-on.

Not take up other large projects to divert your time to.

See, I don't understand what the size of the project has to do with it. Whether it's a million small projects or one large project, I'm working 10 hours a week on other stuff.

But you were the project manager. You organized the project. You guaranteed success. This was and is 100% your responsibility. Blaming Jeff isn't working and won't magically start working regardless of how many times you repeat it.

I don't expect it to be recognized as an excuse, I owned up to the fact I made mistakes and should have been more firm staying in my spot. I'm using it as an explanation into how we are where we are.

 

[Mike Edge]

I'm working 10 hours a week on other stuff.

and less then 10 hours a month on ours, as ours don't matter.. You already got paid..

We should be getting those 10 hours as you already been paid for them..

Yet you don't get why people are upset with you /smh

 

[Daniel Hood]

I completely understand why people are upset. There's just nothing that's going to happen about it. This is the way I have to do things. I became dependent on that income while I was no longer working on XenReviews and I cannot just let it go now. It's not realistic. I am still working on XenReviews though and will continue to do so. I'm sorry that it's not good enough but it's not likely to change in the immediate future. What will change, which I have already said, is clearer communication on what is being changed and scheduled progress reports.

 

[The Sandman]

I don't expect it to be recognized as an excuse, I owned up to the fact I made mistakes and should have been more firm staying in my spot. I'm using it as an explanation into how we are where we are.

Which, to recap, is without any significant progress in *many* months. As I stated earlier, this is quite bothersome to those of us who contributed/invested, especially since you are moving so slowly (if indeed at all) while continuing to develop and sell add-ons via this site. You say you're owning the responsibility, but it's not in the saying, it's in the doing.

All in all a very sorry state of affairs.

 

[Alpha1]

See, I don't understand what the size of the project has to do with it. Whether it's a million small projects or one large project, I'm working 10 hours a week on other stuff.

Let me explain my worries then. It will take you hundreds of hours to complete XenReviews. If you do that by spending a few hours a week, then it will take a few more years. We have already waited years. If letting us wait more years.... if that's your plan then don't bother. I hope that you can understand that its not realistic to let us wait that long for a project that was supposed to be delivered years ago and in which you showed little development in the last 9 months.

Spending time on other stuff means that you do not have enough time to finish this project within a reasonable time frame. If you do not think you can deliver within a reasonable time frame then you should refund us the money we paid you.

 

[Mike Edge]

It's not realistic.

Nor is making people wait years on a project you already made several thousands of dollars on.. This project should be your top priority. You can just go ahead and delete my account on your site as I will not be purchasing anything from you in the future between scamming us on this project and your piss poor attitude regarding it.. I hope others follow suit and boycott your products too along with not being able to release add-ons on here until people like Alfa are refunded on the big money they invested into what's obviously become a failed project that your only stringing people along on a small update here and there for over the last 9 months.

 

[Daniel Hood]

Which, to recap, is without any significant progress in *many* months.

And as I pointed out, the code I was told to start with was terrible. I had to downgrade it and maybe that took me longer to do than it should have but it was done approximately a month ago. Since then, I've depreciated and removed a core component of XenReviews. I've addressed what was at one point the biggest complaint with XenGrid which was the map system not working. I've switched to supporting bd widget framework which was an original requirement. I've cleaned up some code. I got the item view working. Server errors hardly ever happen. 9 months ago, I had a mess dumped on my lap, I had to shift my entire business model in order to take that on. The past month has been relatively good for XenReviews which is why I'm a little blindsided by this outrage again all the sudden.

If letting us wait more years.... if that's your plan then don't bother. I hope that you can understand that its not realistic to let us wait that long for a project that was supposed to be delivered years ago and in which you showed little development in the last 9 months.

I don't plan for it to take years. I don't believe there's hundreds of hours left. There aren't many bugs in the current feature once I finish all the widgets and stuff we should be fairly close to a usable release which lacks the monetary features. I know those are a big deal but a while back it was agreed that 1.0 could lack them, they could be added in 1.1. At least, if I recall correctly. Once it's listed as a resource on here and has a more positive impression in the community and potentially selling licenses again and no longer considered "vaporware", I should be able to have updates and support similar to the rest of my add-ons.

If you do not think you can deliver within a reasonable time frame then you should refund us the money we paid you.

This idea has the following problems;

a) I obviously don't have the money to refund the people I'm legitimately responsible for, granted that's my problem and I would force it to work if I felt that was necessary.
b) Almost the same amount of money that was put up in the crowd fund was sold in licenses after I was gone (assuming based on license stats, I didn't actually take part in the transactions so I don't know). Meaning I got no money for those, meaning I cannot possibly refund them. I cannot bring myself to just say 'you guys are screwed, sorry'.

If push came to shove, I suppose I would have no choice but to refund the people that put money up via pozible.com, however that's a relatively small portion of the people affected (though a decent portion of the money).

Again though, I don't think that's necessary and I'm not really looking to pursue doing it. My goal is still to release XenReviews.

 

[The Sandman]

My goal is still to release XenReviews.

By what date? If you really meant it you'd commit to a date - for either release or refund.

 

[Alpha1]

I don't believe there's hundreds of hours left. There aren't many bugs in the current feature once I finish all the widgets and stuff we should be fairly close to a usable release which lacks the monetary features. I know those are a big deal but a while back it was agreed that 1.0 could lack them, they could be added in 1.1.

1.0 is just a milestone. The full project has many milestones and includes monetary functions and many dozens of other small and large features and importer. To deliver the agreed project does mean committing to a large amount of hours. Its certainly hundreds of hours left to go.

The monetary features are indeed a big things as my advertisers have pledged a significant amount per month and I have been missing out on this income every month that this project stalls. Its not just me waiting for you to deliver. But also my big board advertisers. Which is a big issue for a non-profit organization in deficit.

 

[Daniel Hood]

By what date? If you really meant it you'd commit to a date - for either release or refund.

A date isn't going to happen.

 

[Daniel Hood]

1.0 is just a milestone. The full project has many milestones and includes monetary functions and many dozens of other small and large features and importer. To deliver the agreed project does mean committing to a large amount of hours. Its certainly hundreds of hours left to go.

The monetary features are indeed a big things as my advertisers have pledged a significant amount per month and I have been missing out on this income every month that this project stalls. Its not just me waiting for you to deliver. But also my big board advertisers. Which is a big issue for a non-profit organization in deficit.

Yes I know that isn't the project completion point. It's just a big step where the project can take a nice turn and I can likely commit more time to it.

 

[Alpha1]

A date isn't going to happen.

If you cant make any significant time commitment. If you cant at the very least give us firm monthly releases packed with features, then I don't believe XenReviews is going to happen either. In that case its time to refund or if that's not possible then we have got scammed.