XF 2.2 Welcome to XenForo 2.2 / What's still to come

We've spent the last few weeks talking about the new features in XenForo 2.2. Now, it's your first chance to try some of them out and help us put them through their paces. Welcome to XenForo 2.2!

As you may notice, we have started converting some of our forums to more specific forum types. We've also enabled all general discussion thread types in the testing forum.

What's still to come

While our previous "have you seen" threads have announced most of what's coming in XenForo 2.2, we haven't touched on our official add-ons. There are improvements coming to each of them (beyond getting support for changes we already announced in 2.2), but we're not quite ready to announce these changes yet. Until we do, what you see running here is essentially the same as the 2.1-based version of our add-ons.

Beyond the add-ons, we still have a few more improvements to XenForo 2.2 itself that are still in the oven right now. These include improvements based on feedback we've received from the previous have you seens and some improvements to things we haven't touched on yet.

Keep your eyes peeled! (Disclaimer: please do not actually peel your eyes.)

Next steps

We're now starting the first steps towards releasing XenForo 2.2 by testing it here. So please, if you notice any bugs or problems, report them to us.

Once we finish off the changes we still have in the pipeline and are happy with the stability of 2.2, the first beta will be released to all customers with active licenses. Beta versions are not officially supported and we don't recommend running them on production installs. This is an opportunity for people to test and for resource authors to make the necessary changes to support the new version. From there, we'll continue releasing beta versions until we're ready to move onto the release candidate stage, which essentially means that we believe the version is close to being an officially supported release (but it's not yet!). Finally, and only once we've gone through each of these stages, XenForo 2.2.0 will be released as an officially supported/recommended release... and we can all celebrate!

But in the meantime, we still have work to do!

 

[Serpius]

The new editor will need some getting used to. It will be interesting to see how the larger public will handle it.
I am not seeing an 'install app' at all on Android. Is Firefox supported?

Just for the avoidance of doubt, and while this is an extreme example as it's just display all buttons unconditionally, the concept of the "groups" is optional. There is still a button manager and you can still list the buttons in any configuration that you want on your own forums.


View attachment 228677

I don't mean to take this a belabor this, but the new editor seems fine to me.

Honestly, if this old fart (62) can find the 3 little dots to expand the editor options, then anyone can!

 

[Serpius]

.but why don't you want to try to remove the gradient? You can simply change the background of the editor at focus.

May I ask?

Why in the heck do you start your sentences with a '.'?

The only time I've seen this is for files such as '.htaccess'.

 

[Lawrence]

Yes, but the two hundred people who all think it would be a waste of time to develop a cms, or an account self-delete option (me), or whatever, would also apply a downvote. Plus, I've had the vote option before, via addon, and from my experience some people will down-vote stuff for no good reason that you can possibly think of - you know, like you see with a gazillion videos on Youtube, even if it's just someone basically saying something that you would think everyone could agree with, like we should all try to live in peace and love our fellow man - and for that reason I disabled down-voting myself. Don't want the negativity.

Before 2.2 was introduced here, we all relied on the like system to "up vote" suggestions. Never have I seen a group of XF members abuse this by selecting "angry" or another negative-type reaction. I doubt that will change for down voting in this community.

The pre-sales forum allows down voting for best answer, and as far as I can tell it is not being abused to date. A member you may not like posts a response in the pre-sales forum, are you saying you are going to down vote it and get a group of your friends to do the same? You won't.

There are a small amount of members here that I have little respect for, I'll never down vote their contributions, but if they gave an answer or made a suggestion that I agree with, I'll give them credit by up voting (or by liking for 2.1, which I have done numerous times in the past). And I think most members here will do the same.

This site isn't youtube with hundreds of millions of users that know nothing of each other, Xenforo is a community (the below quote is from here https://xenforo.com/solutions/#xf):

Community support​

Community is what we do, after all​

Our own community is one of our greatest assets. XenForo has always benefited from a rich and varied group of customers who are happy to share their experiences and help each other out.

So, the above quote should be removed? No, because it's true and we all know that. We are just not trusted enough to not abuse the down voting when it comes to suggestions. Maybe it should be re-written:

Community support​

Community is what we do, after all​

Our own community is one of our greatest assets. XenForo has always benefited from a rich and varied group of customers who are happy to share their experiences and help each other out, we just won't allow them to downvote, because as helpful as they are, we just don't trust the little #$%^&% enough to unleash the whole upvoting and downvoting feature on them when it comes to suggestions.

But anyways, the choice was made, no down voting for suggestions. So IMO, upvoting should be removed: a half of a metric is no metric at all.

 

[Chris D]

Never have I seen a group of XF members abuse this by selecting "angry" or another negative-type reaction.

We don't have any negative reactions.

Even the ones you think might have negative connotations are not - they are "neutral". "Like" increases the reaction score. "Angry", "Sad" etc. neither increase nor decrease. They just do not count and do not have the same effect that a downvote would.

 

[RisteDimitrievski]

Again, little point in making comments like this. Please create a thread somewhere appropriate if you have specific feedback about the editor.

Is new version available to upgrade our forums?

 

[Lawrence]

We don't have any negative reactions.

Even the ones you think might have negative connotations are not - they are "neutral". "Like" increases the reaction score. "Angry", "Sad" etc. neither increase nor decrease. They just do not count and do not have the same effect that a downvote would.

That is true @Chris. But nothing is stopping a group of members from selecting the haha reaction, making a legitimate suggestion by someone they may not like seem like a joke at first glance. But, it doesn't happen here, and that is my point,

 

[HJW]

I appreciate the new changes, although for my community the only one that's much of an interest is the progressive app. I look forward to hearing updates about how well it's used. Not sure the progressive app is for me, it feels a bit unfamiliar like when a link is opened in the twitter app outside of my usual browser.

I'm probably going to stick to 2.1 because I'm sure it will take some time to get all my apps and templates working with 2.2.

 

[Mr Lucky]

This is one of the major factors that influenced our decision.

And presumably with the old suggestions you only took notice of positive reactions?

EDIT: oops just seen the above - there are no negatives here

 

[Arnox]

Would you care to elaborate on that opinion for our benefit?

I'll copypasta a section from my FAQ that explains it all, but the TL;DR of it is, Tyranny of the Majority. A huge issue inherent in any purely democratic system. (Fun fact, this is why the founding fathers made the U.S. a republic instead of a pure democracy.)

When we're talking about a normal upvote/downvote system or anything in between though, such a system has been shown repeatedly to lead to friends upvoting each other just because they're friends, funny posts getting upvoted instead of the more smart and thoughtful posts, posts getting upvoted because it tells people what they want to hear instead of what they should be hearing, posts getting downvoted because it tells people what they should be hearing instead of what they want to be hearing, the entire system getting gamed by paid clickers and/or bots, and posts deserving of upvotes not getting them simply because they're on the last page of posts and some users TL;DRing all posts past the first or second pages or initial replies. Not to mention the small amounts of drama it causes when someone gets a lot of or all the upvotes and another doesn't, no matter how intelligent or well they conduct themselves simply because of something that happened in the past and people are holding a grudge...

So why do such systems have appeal? Because they're a super cheap way to add engagement to any site. Users don't have to think about writing a reply now. They can just upvote/downvote a post. Viewers don't have to use their mind to sort through what is the better response and what is not. The score now tells them what to think. But ultimately, that's all such a system is. A bargain bin way to drive engagement on your site.

 

[alizhrani]

Good luck

 

[Kier]

So why do such systems have appeal? Because they're a super cheap way to add engagement to any site. Users don't have to think about writing a reply now. They can just upvote/downvote a post.

You've just made the case for removing the Like button - which I think is an argument long consigned to history.

 

[beerForo]

That the old legacy forum concern that was proven wrong 100 fold.

 

[kolakube]

.it’s terrible not because I don’t understand how it works, but because of the appearance and problems that I described here, here and here

Thought I had seen a suggestion about the insert thumbnail/full image somewhere, I made a suggestion for it:

Show Insert Thumbnail/Full image buttons directly after upload

Right now after you upload an attachment you have to click Insert... to show the Thumbnail/Full image: It would save clicks if it directly showed the Thumbnail and Full image buttons (or some other variation) instead: Concept:

xenforo.com

Maybe you should post suggestions too, it will show you how simple the new thread types are to use and not seem so half-baked.

 

[Mr Lucky]

You've just made the case for removing the Like button - which I think is an argument long consigned to history.

Indeed and both the like button and voting should remove the guff (thin content +1 type posts) but still allow and hopefully encourage meaningful discussion and healthy debate.

 

[Arnox]

You've just made the case for removing the Like button - which I think is an argument long consigned to history.

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you saying the whole argument for or against voting systems is long outdated, or are you saying the problem has already been solved... ?

Also keep in mind, I'm not actually arguing for the feature's removal. If customers want it, they want it, and anyone can disable it if they like, so I don't actually have an issue with it being in the XF core software. But you did ask me to expound on why I heavily dislike voting systems.

 

[Silverstar]

Test before subscribe is OK
Attach files OK

 

[Serpius]

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you saying the whole argument for or against voting systems is long outdated, or are you saying the problem has already been solved... ?

Also keep in mind, I'm not actually arguing for the feature's removal. If customers want it, they want it, and anyone can disable it if they like, so I don't actually have an issue with it being in the XF core software. But you did ask me to expound on why I heavily dislike voting systems.

I don't know if what I will say for my website will help you or anyone else understand the voting system and/or the Thumbs Up/Down system, if it's properly implemented, it can be a great way to get all kinds of users to interact with each other in a civilized way. Yea, yea, I know what you're thinking... things like this can become UNcivilized.

However...

We as admins must do our due diligence and ADMINISTER the website that we are responsible for! Think about it for a moment... if we allow some of these things to be "automated", then yea, there will be chaos... guaranteed. Us admins have the title 'Administrator' and we must act like one!

For example... my website (after the total revamping is done soon) will be catered to all things related to the 'Art World'. Now, the art of by itself is very subjective, therefore, there will be voting (regardless of the method used) that be done using one's bias on some form of art.

Now, if some user comes in and UPvotes a painting and in the little comment section, they say 'Oh, I upvoted this because I like this particular politician." Well, guess what? I'm going to go in and remove that vote and warn/temp ban that user for not following the rules of the website.

So, if you had an "automated" voting system, it would have NOT prevented that vote from happening nor would it stop that user from posting a useless comment.

That's where the role of the Administrator comes in. We do our jobs so that our users can enjoy the website and at the same time, the users will know that I, as an Administrator, will prevent things from getting out of hand and that gives all users confidence that they can use my website without being hassled by idiotic users.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Arnox]

I don't know if what I will say for my website will help you or anyone else understand the voting system and/or the Thumbs Up/Down system, if it's properly implemented, it can be a great way to get all kinds of users to interact with each other in a civilized way. Yea, yea, I know what you're thinking... things like this can become UNcivilized.

However...

We as admins must do our due diligence and ADMINISTER the website that we are responsible for! Think about it for a moment... if we allow some of these things to be "automated", then yea, there will be chaos... guaranteed. Us admins have the title 'Administrator' and we must act like one!

For example... my website (after the total revamping is done soon) will be catered to all things related to the 'Art World'. Now, the art of by itself is very subjective, therefore, there will be voting (regardless of the method used) that be done using one's bias on some form of art.

Now, if some user comes in and UPvotes a painting and in the little comment section, they say 'Oh, I upvoted this because I like this particular politician." Well, guess what? I'm going to go in and remove that vote and warn/temp ban that user for not following the rules of the website.

So, if you had an "automated" voting system, it would have NOT prevented that vote from happening nor would it stop that user from posting a useless comment.

That's where the role of the Administrator comes in. We do our jobs so that our users can enjoy the website and at the same time, the users will know that I, as an Administrator, will prevent things from getting out of hand and that gives all users confidence that they can use my website without being hassled by idiotic users.

Just my 2 cents...

So what would happen if a user left a vote without a comment explaining it?

 

[Serpius]

So what would happen if a user left a vote without a comment explaining it?

I would simply send that user a private conversation request that he/she leave a short comment for their vote within a certain timeframe. If no comment is done within that time frame, it is removed and the user will lose his/her credits for the vote.

 

[Arnox]

I would simply send that user a private conversation request that he/she leave a short comment for their vote within a certain timeframe. If no comment is done within that time frame, it is removed and the user will lose his/her credits for the vote.

What happens if they lie about why they voted the way they did? How would you know?