The future of forums (vs social media)

I have used the Forum software over 10 years, and now someone is telling me that this was not the right choice for me...
I think its useless to explain to some users how important accessibility and content organization are. since they think those are the "names" of other softwares.
 
Last edited:
imno007 said:
Then maybe you should have bought something else. If you bought XF on impulse, with little knowledge of what you were paying for, or you paid for it with the expectation that you would eventually get additional features you personally want (despite the devs never promising you those features), then you have no one to blame but yourself.
Click to expand...

With a mindset like this, we would all still be on BBSs.
 
The Geek said:
Forum structure is just not enough to engage anymore. Even for me. I HATE googling for a solution and getting a forum. Often, its a multipage discussion, with no threading... just a wall of posts in linear order. People quoting to try and form context, but to the average person trying to follow the context... its a pain. I think threading (at least at a shallow level) is important again.

There is also no natural filtration processes other than highlighting posts with likes. But do I need to go through each page in a thread to find the most liked to get the best answer (which usually also lacks context because multiple people are having a conversation in the same thread)? I think up/down voting is important to accomplish this. It pushes higher quality top level posts to a more visible level.

I also dislike forums as content groupings. If I hit new posts, I don't get the best of the latest, I just get the latest of EVERYTHING. Take a forum dedicated to programming... I get served up with posts about languages I really don't care about which buries the content I DO care about. This also contributes to forums becoming dominated by fewer forums... the most active are the ones most "advertised". I need a way to say "just these forums" or at least a way to bias them. We then need a way to aggregate what is considered "active content" for the groupings.

And responsive design... important to have, but they have nothing on the effectiveness of native apps. I ditched my white label Tapatalk when I moved to xf. Tried with all my might to get people to use the responsive aspects, but eventually had to cave in because the bottom line is that its a PITA compared to the ease of their native app. The system needs to be built with an api first approach.

Finally, forums needed to cater to every need. Arcades? Currencies? These kinds of things were important to keep the site sticky in early 00's, but the more whistles and bells, the less the site becomes about content. Which is what people engage your site for now. So KISS. Make content and user interaction with that content the most important thing.
Click to expand...

I for one do like forums as content groupings, I think that's one of the ways it makes things easier to find, which seems to be one of your main gripes about forums: that things aren't easy enough to find. And I think a lot of what you're mentioning here can already be achieved with XF, though perhaps with the addition of addon's. There are addon's, for example, that allow users to vote on threads and move them up based on popularity, or to highlight them, etc. (Although, heh, I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see that kind of thing in the core.) And prefixes are another way for users to quickly organize information. To use your own example, if various program languages are each given their own prefix, all a user has to do is click on one of those prefixes to get all the threads that pertain to a certain language (I also use a little addon called Prefix Forum Listing to make this even more intuitive). Not to mention, prefixes, tags, etc. can be searched. But if you're going to tell me that many people are just too lazy to do two or three extra clicks to find what they want, I won't disagree with you. :D
 
Last edited:
imno007 said:
I for one do like forums as content groupings, I think that's one of the ways it makes things easier to find, which seems to be one of your main gripes about forums: that things aren't easy enough to find.
Click to expand...

My phrasing was fairly poor there. What I mean by this:

I also dislike forums as content groupings. If I hit new posts, I don't get the best of the latest, I just get the latest of EVERYTHING
Click to expand...

if that if forums are a way of grouping content, make that grouping functional for the user. I don't want to have to go to forums->scroll to find my interest and click (nothing there, let me go to forums -> scroll to my next interest, etc...).

I haven't ever really been a fan of prefixes. But perhaps its just in the context I have used them in.

Thanks for your comments.
 
The Geek said:
With a mindset like this, we would all still be on BBSs.
Click to expand...
Well, I personally don't feel that the Xenforo experience now is akin to having to use BBS's back in the day. And I certainly never said that XF couldn't improve, just that the only obligation of the devs is to make a good forum software, not a social media/CMS platform. They can do all that if they want, but people shouldn't act like they're getting shortchanged if they don't. In responding to Tracy Perry's comment, sami samo basically said that a forum unable to perform the duties of a CMS or a full social platform (ala FB)—to paraphrase Tracy—is not something he would want. Maybe my reading comprehension skills are failing me, but I think that naturally begs the question of what he thought he was buying when he bought Xenforo - hence my reply. But I've said all I have to say on the matter, there's really nothing more to add. May you all get what you want! :D
 
Last edited:
imno007 said:
sami samo basically said that a forum unable to perform the duties of a CMS or a full social platform (ala FB)—to paraphrase Tracy—is not something he would want
Click to expand...
No, I didnt.
XF shouldn't be a CMS, it shouldn't be another Facebook. but It should use any advanced technology that exists in modern web to make user experience better.
 
sami simo said:
No, I didnt.
XF shouldn't be a CMS, it shouldn't be another Facebook. but It should use any advanced technology that exists in modern web to make user experience better.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I did misunderstand then. Your comment that that's not what you wanted must have been in response to the first half of Tracy's post, rather than the second. I assumed it was the latter bit you were replying to based on some of your previous comments, that sounded very much like you were asking for CMS features, just without actually calling it a CMS. My bad. Okay, really last comment here. Good luck, all!
 
imno007 said:
Sorry, I did misunderstand then. Your comment that that's not what you wanted must have been in response to the first half of Tracy's post, rather than the second. I assumed it was the latter bit you were replying to based on some of your previous comments, that sounded very much like you were asking for CMS features, just without actually calling it a CMS. My bad. Okay, really last comment here. Good luck, all!
Click to expand...
Not your fault, its my horrible english :(
 
The Geek said:
I don't want to have to go to forums->scroll to find my interest and click (nothing there, let me go to forums -> scroll to my next interest, etc...).
Click to expand...
There are plenty of effective filtering systems that learn from user behavior. It should be clear to the system what the user is interested in and thereby it should adjust the new content shown.
 
Hi,

I do not think that XF shall try to be a second Facebook.

As Sami said: It is fine that XF is a forum software. But as soon as we see that someone else had a great idea how to improve the usability on a different software like facebook for uploading images or writing a comment, it would be a good idea to just copy that idea over to XF. Apple had great ideas with its first iphone and how to use a phone device. Everybody else copied it, just because it is a great idea.

We all bought XF because it is a forum software. But also a forum software can be improved in usability aspects. And there is nothing bad about to write our wishes in a thread. Hw else shall the XF team get an idea what its customers want to have in the future?

A CMS is somethig many XF users would like to have. Me too. But I do not think that XF should go the way IPB oder VB went. It is a waste of time and ressources to develop an XF-CMS, if there are already so good CMS out there. It is a lot smarter and efficient, to write a great bridge between XF and Wordpress.

Less work, less ressources. But the best CMS you can have at the moment with a guarantee that also Google likes it. No IPB or vb can match that.

So why reeinventing the wheel, if there is so obviously a perfect solution out there? And do not forget Wordpress is already NOW available. Not in 1-3 years time ;)
 
Max said:
Facebook has groups and fanpages under every topic with nearly billion of people actively discussing and sharing ideas. That's our target crowd.
Click to expand...

I know that looks at first sight very attractive. And I do agree that we should do everything possible to get a few of those users into our forums.

But I just want to manage the expectations. 95% of these FB users will never come to forums, because no matter how you improve the UX of XF, it is still not Facebook. and icf you would cange XF so it would be second facbook, it would still not succeed.

Look at WhatsApp. Everybody knows that it is crap, that private data is copied from your phone and sold to third parties. Your addressbook with all the private data of your friends, who never agreed to sell their datao to someone else. Just with the fact that you install WhatsApp on your phone, you sell the email adress, the phone number etc. of all your friends to them. Still millions of people uses WA. That is embarassing.

There are excellent alternatives out there like Threema. Totally secure, no data is stored outside of your phone, no data is stolen/copied. No data will be sold to others. Threema has the same features like WhatApp. So why is not verybody switching from WhatsApp to Threema? It woudl be so easy to tell the 10-20 people you are interacting on WhatsApp: Lets go to threema. But nobody raises the subject. Just because the people are too lazy. It is just a click to switch from WA to Threema. Very few do it.
 
The Geek said:
Forum structure is just not enough to engage anymore. Even for me. I HATE googling for a solution and getting a forum. Often, its a multipage discussion, with no threading... just a wall of posts in linear order. People quoting to try and form context, but to the average person trying to follow the context... its a pain. I think threading (at least at a shallow level) is important again.

There is also no natural filtration processes other than highlighting posts with likes. But do I need to go through each page in a thread to find the most liked to get the best answer (which usually also lacks context because multiple people are having a conversation in the same thread)? I think up/down voting is important to accomplish this. It pushes higher quality top level posts to a more visible level.

I also dislike forums as content groupings. If I hit new posts, I don't get the best of the latest, I just get the latest of EVERYTHING. Take a forum dedicated to programming... I get served up with posts about languages I really don't care about which buries the content I DO care about. This also contributes to forums becoming dominated by fewer forums... the most active are the ones most "advertised". I need a way to say "just these forums" or at least a way to bias them. We then need a way to aggregate what is considered "active content" for the groupings.

And responsive design... important to have, but they have nothing on the effectiveness of native apps. I ditched my white label Tapatalk when I moved to xf. Tried with all my might to get people to use the responsive aspects, but eventually had to cave in because the bottom line is that its a PITA compared to the ease of their native app. The system needs to be built with an api first approach.

Finally, forums needed to cater to every need. Arcades? Currencies? These kinds of things were important to keep the site sticky in early 00's, but the more whistles and bells, the less the site becomes about content. Which is what people engage your site for now. So KISS. Make content and user interaction with that content the most important thing.
Click to expand...


Hey My friend

Long time to chat :)

I agree with you on the forum listing being extremely boring part. I also think on majority of the communities forum list is becoming a cluttered list of categories which gives very little information to end users.

I've been studying on this with our UI/X experts for the past 18 months. The first feature we tested was Forum Hide option on IPB which was loved by our members. We are going to develop this one for XF also. This allowed end user to customise forum listings according to their need to get rid of the clutterness and easy reach to any of the forum category they are interested at. Your idea of checking filtered new posts also give ma hint to check tying that to new post section also as optional advanced filtering option. Need to investigate possibilities of that.

However this didn't fully resolve the forum index page displaying very limited option. Now we are working on completely re arranging forum index page with additional content. I really believe the Categories forum listing needs to be retired and main forum index page needs to start featuring additional contents like Trending , New threads etc.. in an organised fashion.

I would like to see major improvements on these within XF 2.0 that will allow websites to have more flexible Index Page.

I dislike tapatalk greatly but i agree with you. Responsive design will always have it's own limitations. Thats why a good mobile app will always have advantage over responsive design. I also will like to see a very good API build in XF 2.0 that will allow us to build custom app's.

P.S : I still miss the power of Gars which turned vBulletin into a complete CMS solution :)
 
Mert said:
Hey My friend


I would like to see major improvements on these within XF 2.0 that will allow websites to have more flexible Index Page.

I dislike tapatalk greatly but i agree with you. Responsive design will always have it's own limitations. Thats why a good mobile app will always have advantage over responsive design. I also will like to see a very good API build in XF 2.0 that will allow us to build custom app's.
Click to expand...

An index page that focuses on best/trending content would be the best solution. Give people the content that's performing best right now. We can sorta do that with Daniel's Trending Topics addon, but making a widget page to mix top threads, top media, etc, is a nightmare. The widget pages usually look screwy and poorly aligned. We need something better that presents the most popular/trending/interactive content on our index. Imagine the random users who may find your site via search or social media - they often arrive at a very bland homepage. There's no reason for them to stay unless they're over 30 and know what the heck a forum is. Most of the younger social media enthusiasts are clueless on how it was back in the AOL dial up days and early days of forums. All the young crowd knows is selfies and instant gratification, and if something is too hard to use, they ditch it.

I barely read positive comments about tapatalk. I see more comments of people wishing they had their own app. There's nothing that stops us from making our own app or using third party options like AppyPie.

I would just have my own app developed, but I'm stuck in a position where I don't have enough active members earning enough income to make it worth spending the cash, nor would the members spend as much time on the web version, so it's like "wtf do I do now?"

sami simo said:
No, I didnt.
XF shouldn't be a CMS, it shouldn't be another Facebook. but It should use any advanced technology that exists in modern web to make user experience better.
Click to expand...

XF is one step away from being a cms just like any other. Once we can upload videos to threads/posts, then it's no different then WordPress in the regards that you can literally share/add/upload any content to any post. Said content mostly being links, text, pictures, videos.

That's literally all it needs, and it already has it via XFMG, but it needs to be integrated directly or permit videos uploads to threads. It's 2016, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to upload videos to threads by now. What else is the difference at that point other than coding and/or structure?

It's awful when you share a YouTube video and it ends up deleted, wether on my account or another. I'd rather pay the hosting bill, host the video myself, and have reliable content. Yeah, I know I can do that with XFMG, but it's not a fluid solution for the members who aren't as tech savvy. Nice addon, but doesn't demonstrate an easy to use method of videos in threads.
 
Last edited:
drastic said:
permit videos uploads to threads
Click to expand...

Do I misunderstand her esomething? It is possible to upload videos into postings. I just copy the url of a youtube video and paste it into the posting. That's all. Or do you mean something different?
 
You're not uploading a video. You're sharing a video from another website.

If you could upload them, then the user wouldn't have to use YouTube, they could just post it directly to your site without leaving.

It would also give us a better chance to retain users, as there's a lot of YouTube videos that sometimes get randomly removed by the user or by YouTube for copyright violations. Imagine you post a link to Facebook about a video you posted, and you have 12,000 fans - then when you're out at dinner the video gets yanked from YouTube and your Facebook fans are annoyed because there's no darn video anymore.

I'd rather host it myself at that point, could at least throw an ad in the video pause screen or under it as well.

You may not need it for your site, but I'd like to have it.
 
Mert said:
Hey My friend
I agree with you on the forum listing being extremely boring part. I also think on majority of the communities forum list is becoming a cluttered list of categories which gives very little information to end users.

I've been studying on this with our UI/X experts for the past 18 months. The first feature we tested was Forum Hide option on IPB which was loved by our members. We are going to develop this one for XF also. This allowed end user to customise forum listings according to their need to get rid of the clutterness and easy reach to any of the forum category they are interested at. Your idea of checking filtered new posts also give ma hint to check tying that to new post section also as optional advanced filtering option. Need to investigate possibilities of that.

However this didn't fully resolve the forum index page displaying very limited option. Now we are working on completely re arranging forum index page with additional content. I really believe the Categories forum listing needs to be retired and main forum index page needs to start featuring additional contents like Trending , New threads etc.. in an organised fashion.
Click to expand...

Hey Mert! Nice to see you again :)

Yes, this is my point. Forum lists are static and how the ADMIN prioritises content categorisation. It isn't indicative of the users interest. When I moved to xF, I made this a project, but simply ran out of time implementing it. It really needs to be built into core to be effective.

Mert said:
P.S : I still miss the power of Gars which turned vBulletin into a complete CMS solution :)
Click to expand...

Yes, those were the days... before FB and other sites aquired the majority share of activity. It was fun to see how far you could bend forums to define your platform. A plugin could make the difference between your site being preferred over another. GARS was a bit in the forum golden (for me). But I sure don't miss maintaining it! Came across some of the code a year or so ago. It made me shiver!
 
Dinh Thanh said:
First time to hear Flarum
http://flarum.org/features/
Click to expand...

Ive been playing with this since I first stumbled on it a week or so ago. I really like a lot about it. But it doesn't seem to aggregate content from your "favourite" tags. It isn't threaded and most have the "you no need no app if its repsonsive" mentality. Otherwise, a really good, content focused forum.

Threading is important. Just take this thread for example. The thread splits. People thinking some users are talking about x but they are talking about y. Interspersed with conversations related to a comment 4 pages previous. Its a PITA that makes users confused and makes forums frustrating as a source for good content.

Not really a fan of discourse, but their shallow threading (comments on comments) is at least a step to keep the main thread clean. I know there is some plugin here at xF for this, but should ideally be core. You should also be able to enable users to push better content to where it will be seen (e.g. up/down voting).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom