drastic
Well-known member
If someone jumped into this conversation, right here, they might think we were comparing different forum scripts and considering using GARS as an alternative to XF!
The future of forums (vs social media)
- Thread starter drastic
- Start date
If someone jumped into this conversation, right here, they might think we were comparing different forum scripts and considering using GARS as an alternative to XF!
The Geek
Active member
lol. Exactly why threading is so important. Like GARS
That is a trip. Both that you still depend on it and that there isn't a solution for xF. I stopped working on GARS like 7 years ago?
Alpha1
Well-known member
Actually, we organized a crowdfund for an advanced reviews solution called XenReviews. Despite $6,000.00 in funding in 2013 and a lot of interest, the project has not been delivered yet. Which means my big board is still dependent upon GARS to host reviews with monetizing features.
Its quite a trip. GARS mostly still works on modern infrastructure. 7 years sounds about right. When GARS was released it was quite modern. Now its ancient.
NetDoc
Active member
This concept has real merit. I doubt we could get past our distrust of a centralized log in, but it has true merit.
That would really be a game changer. I own ScubaBoard. If I can find a way to convince shops to use me rather than Facebook, I could really improve my presence. A large part of this would be making it super easy for them to share pics of their clients on SB. I got rid of TappaTalk with the change to xenForo, so that's not an option. I want them to be able to go to their favorite thread, snap a pic and have it displayed as a post: not as an attachment!
Another very good point. Now combine an incredibly easy to use mobile interface with the ability to take a picture and insert it into your post straight from the phone. NOW
Google is how I get the majority of my readers and ultimately users. To me, that's one of the biggest strengths a forum has over Facebook: we're Googleized. Yet, I've seen my relevance dwindle. Just a few short years ago, my Alexa.com score was 23,000. Before I switched to xeForo it had declined to 77,000. Since Jan 14th of this year, we're now down to 54,000 (thanks xenForo). I see Angie's List or Trip Adviser as a far better example for us than Facebook. If I could only devise a way to list reviews of Dive shops, resorts, sites, manufacturers and their gear, I would be ultra relevant in the Scuba industry. It would be it's own SEO on steroids. I already am relevant to the divers... but they don't pay my bills. I really need the INDUSTRY to see me as being valuable to them. I was hoping that xenReviews would do this, but it's nothing but vapor ware at this time. If the moguls at xenForo are reading this, then this would be the real game changer for so, so many forums. It would make us all super relevant in our categories.
I think this is what really hurt vBulletin. I needed a CMS, and the xenForo/Word Press interface suits me perfectly.
Again, this would be a game changer for all of us. I can't tell you how much I need this kind of plug in. It would really change the usability and value of xenForo. It should also be geographic in nature.
aussie
Member
Princeton researchers beg to differ...
just another fad in the same category as body piercings, tats and fast loud red cars - sheep following sheep.
just another fad in the same category as body piercings, tats and fast loud red cars - sheep following sheep.
whitetigergrowl
Well-known member
On the forums I frequent I'm absolutely seeing a decline in activity as those people gravitate towards Facebook and the groups there, as well as Reddit.
You'll see a forum (IPB, Xenforo, VB, etc), and the activity has seen a noticeable and gradual decline. Growth seems to have slowed on those forums as well as activity taking more of a back seat. So those forum owners try to find new ways of making revenue, which sometimes has proven a bit difficult.
You'll see forums with maybe a few thousand to maybe even a few hundred thousand members. But then you will see Facebook pages and even Reddits for those same things easily double to triple those numbers and activity.
What hasn't helped was Vbulletin. They made such a radical and drastic shift in their software while also being the largest forum software distributor, and its direction after being bought out, they alienated many people and forum owners. Some switched to IPB or Xenforo. Others saw such a decline in activity and revenue they gave up all together. And in some cases the switch to new software from VB was too much for members and they left.
On top of that when VB sued Xenforo, that caused various issues for people as well and stalled Xenforo development which had adverse effects as well.
Forum software makers like IPB and VB are also loading up on so many features it's gotten more and more complicated for hobbyists that have little knowledge of HTML, CSS, etc. (let alone time), that making a forum and wanting it to not look like 1,000 other of the same forums using the same forum software out there is a bit difficult.
Unfortunately I do believe forum software developers need to look at the pros and cons of social media. What they can do that forums can't. What they offer that forums don't. What should they do and what shouldn't they do that social media does.
Denying that social media is having an impact (let alone negative one) on forums or forum communities is flat out denial. It is.
Facebook has been public since what, around 2006? If it was just a fad it wouldn't still be growing and being insanely profitable (while costing us nothing to use) and would have started to die down by now. But its not because they keep finding ways to keep people interested. For the public it's about 10 years old. It's not a fad, regardless of what some may want to believe, and it'll likely be around quite a bit longer. Not even Myspace had Facebooks longevity. Heck, Myspace even allows Facebook log ins as do most major forum software (as an option). They have tied themselves into our life very well and they know it.
Should IPB, VBulletin, or Xenforo or any other forum software copy them? No. But I think it's time to start thinking outside the box and help find ways for forum developers and forum owners to be able to better compete against them by giving them more of the tools they need to do so without costing 4 arms and 6 legs, but while still being able to make a profit.
Many forum owners also have Facebook, Twitter, and other social media accounts to try and drive traffic to their websites and forums.
Many hobbyists also use social media because its low maintenance, free, and easy to figure out. Plus its better integrated with various other things they do.
Something I think some forum developers are forgetting about and alienating. Thus pushing them to social media which is helping drive that.
You'll see a forum (IPB, Xenforo, VB, etc), and the activity has seen a noticeable and gradual decline. Growth seems to have slowed on those forums as well as activity taking more of a back seat. So those forum owners try to find new ways of making revenue, which sometimes has proven a bit difficult.
You'll see forums with maybe a few thousand to maybe even a few hundred thousand members. But then you will see Facebook pages and even Reddits for those same things easily double to triple those numbers and activity.
What hasn't helped was Vbulletin. They made such a radical and drastic shift in their software while also being the largest forum software distributor, and its direction after being bought out, they alienated many people and forum owners. Some switched to IPB or Xenforo. Others saw such a decline in activity and revenue they gave up all together. And in some cases the switch to new software from VB was too much for members and they left.
On top of that when VB sued Xenforo, that caused various issues for people as well and stalled Xenforo development which had adverse effects as well.
Forum software makers like IPB and VB are also loading up on so many features it's gotten more and more complicated for hobbyists that have little knowledge of HTML, CSS, etc. (let alone time), that making a forum and wanting it to not look like 1,000 other of the same forums using the same forum software out there is a bit difficult.
Unfortunately I do believe forum software developers need to look at the pros and cons of social media. What they can do that forums can't. What they offer that forums don't. What should they do and what shouldn't they do that social media does.
Denying that social media is having an impact (let alone negative one) on forums or forum communities is flat out denial. It is.
Facebook has been public since what, around 2006? If it was just a fad it wouldn't still be growing and being insanely profitable (while costing us nothing to use) and would have started to die down by now. But its not because they keep finding ways to keep people interested. For the public it's about 10 years old. It's not a fad, regardless of what some may want to believe, and it'll likely be around quite a bit longer. Not even Myspace had Facebooks longevity. Heck, Myspace even allows Facebook log ins as do most major forum software (as an option). They have tied themselves into our life very well and they know it.
Should IPB, VBulletin, or Xenforo or any other forum software copy them? No. But I think it's time to start thinking outside the box and help find ways for forum developers and forum owners to be able to better compete against them by giving them more of the tools they need to do so without costing 4 arms and 6 legs, but while still being able to make a profit.
Many forum owners also have Facebook, Twitter, and other social media accounts to try and drive traffic to their websites and forums.
Many hobbyists also use social media because its low maintenance, free, and easy to figure out. Plus its better integrated with various other things they do.
Something I think some forum developers are forgetting about and alienating. Thus pushing them to social media which is helping drive that.
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Floyd R Turbo
Well-known member
And they are in total denial. Maybe not for every type of group, but for certain groups, it's very much sticking around
feldon30
Well-known member
One of my biggest problems with Facebook is, you have one profile and everything you share is sent out to everyone who is friends with you, no matter the topic. I can't have a BBQ profile, a Tomatoes profile, a Forum Software profile. It's all WHARRRGARBLed together. Since we can't microcast our interests to certain groups, most people just retweet/reshare political/activist crap that's important to everyone or pictures of cats.
Yes some people have multiple Facebook accounts, but if they find out, their stated policy is to delete/close these accounts. Who wants to spend years building up an account just to have it deleted? Twitter almost encourages multiple accounts with on-the-fly switching on its mobile app (although they did just stupidly kill off TweetDeck).
Yes some people have multiple Facebook accounts, but if they find out, their stated policy is to delete/close these accounts. Who wants to spend years building up an account just to have it deleted? Twitter almost encourages multiple accounts with on-the-fly switching on its mobile app (although they did just stupidly kill off TweetDeck).
Andrej
Well-known member
Certainly not true. You can create lists where you include people of your choice, and then when you are about to share something, you select the respective list in the "audience" dropdown menu (to the left of the submit button). You can also go to the dropdown directly and hit "custom settings". There you can enter the names of people who you want to be able to see the post, or the ones who shouldn't be able to see your post.
Personally I only use Facebook for messaging, but I know this exist.
drastic
Well-known member
Those are called pages and groups. They've been around for ages and there's a LOT that have millions of followers and readers.
So yeah, you can 100% have your BBQ page and tomato page. If you're feeling crazy, go ahead and make a forum group too.
whitetigergrowl
Well-known member
I agree with the others. While I understand what you're saying, it's simply not entirely true.
I run 3 different FB pages and have no problem keeping on top of everything. And its nice because if there is something I post on those pages I feel some on my friends list might like, I just click a button to share it and I move on.
With Facebook you already have billions of people baked into it. It's nowhere near as hard to get people to sign up for a Facebook Group or Page as it is a forum. With Facebook all I need to do is like or unlike a group to become part of it. With a forum, it's a bit more of a process. I can also usually see whats being offered in that group or page easily and quickly. Some forums are still stuck in the early 2000s and won't let you see what they offer until you join. Only to end up disappointed half the time. So some forum users use that tactic to artificially inflate their member counts too.
I can get 1,000 people to be a part (actively too) of a Facebook page much easier than to get 1,000 people to be actively a part of a forum with the same type of, let alone more, content.
With Facebook it comes down to simplicity and the fact everything is all under one roof. Forum software need to start looking at these things and taking them into serious consideration on how to improve. Or forum software in the not too distant future will face some serious troubles outside of corporate circles.
TPerry
Well-known member
Maybe actually wanting good content instead of "hey, look at my neat kitty kat pic".
DaniD
Active member
Facebook is one huge network. Forums are not. Chances are, your friends, social circle, whatever, are not all hanging out in the same forum that you are. You can't find your boss, your ex-gf, your neighbor's pets account all on one central forum, but changes are on IG, Facebook, Twitter, etc, you can. Thus, everyone's bound to be active. People, especially online, want interaction! The easier it is to become a "member" at these sites, the faster interaction begins, the user base grows, etc. I think I saw someone mention that people stay at forums where friendships have been built. On Facebook there are instant friendships, more incentive to stay, and more incentive to join. Forums simply don't have that, until they're established, or apart of a popular brand. So that's one issue I see with forums vs. social media, but I think it's also folly to look at forums from a "social media" standpoint. Most social media apps are now geared towards attracting a large/universal user base and crowd, whereas forums are more niche, by nature.
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whitetigergrowl
Well-known member
Maybe actually wanting good content instead of "hey, look at my neat kitty kat pic".
Just because you have a forum doesn't equate what your definition of 'good content' actually is. Especially since it's likely there are numerous other forums out there similar to yours that offer much more and likely better content.
Just because someone has a forum, doesn't mean it's actually a good one or one worth joining. It doesn't matter how pretty it looks either. Sure it helps a bit, but looks don't make the forum.
I can have a Facebook page on Gerbils and one on Xenforo, IPB, or VB. Gather to guess which one will likely be more active, have more members, be much cheaper to run (cost effective), and which one will require minimum maintenance and work, and which one will likely end up the most popular?
It's a tough situation. You can have 1,000 members on your FB page and link everythink you post on your forum, on FB, and you will still likely only have a fraction of those people that respond on FB even respond on your forum with the same topic. Why? Because it's redundant and likely will not be worth their time.
Long story short, if forum software doesn't adapt, then forum software will likely end up slowly fading out and whos primary customers will either be corporations, long established forums, or new clients with money to spend. Hobbyists will either find it too cost prohibitive, or too much of an uphill battle.
Fact is, anyone that thinks its only about cute kitty pictures, are so far out of the loop, it's not worth even trying to explain it to them.
TPerry
Well-known member
The same of which can be said of a Facebook page... your point is?
And guess which will be almost impossible to search for content on, be repetitive on the content on and be limited in certain aspects of the content on. See last part of first response. If I can't find the information I need, then the page is as useless as breasts on a boar hog.
Long story short... other than "feel good" type posts, I've yet to find an easy to use Facebook page (pure Facebook with no feeder posts) for any of the items that my sites are involved in. The ones I've seen are more "fluff" than content and impossible to do a search on for beneficial information.
And as for "hobbyist"... it's like any other hobby - if you can't afford the cost then you need to find another one.
Fishing is not cheap
Hunting is not cheap
Bicycle riding (with good equipment) is not cheap
At least with forum(s) there are free scripts out there.
The "kitty kat" comment was based upon what a large number of people use facebook for actually. It's not "real" content, but what I consider general "trash" posts of "hey, look at me holding this mix drink at the pool", or sharing meme's that they find on... tada... the interwebz.
If you have the bucks to throw at FB then it may be beneficial.. but then, not a lot of "hobbyist" are going to do that... and EdgeRank ring a bell?
As an aside, I'm not the only one that thinks FB is pretty much gotten useless for marketing stuff.
http://bluetechstorm.com/facebook-is-useless/
http://www.copyblogger.com/bye-facebook/
http://www.thehubcomms.com/social-m...k-page-is-pretty-much-useless/article/356001/
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whitetigergrowl
Well-known member
It's obvious you have no clue how to use FB, Reddit, or other social media. You're that person that is in denial and still thinks Betamax will win over VCR or HD-DVD will win over Blu-Ray.
I've responded in your quote in bold.
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jilly
Member
my 12 year old uses nothing BUT social media all day. Instagram, vine, kik, snapchat, etc. (and I monitor it, of course!!) But I think the point is well taken that youngsters coming up expect anything worthwhile to be an app they can download, and something they can see and do easily on their phone. A lot of ppl I know with tight budgets don't even buy regular computers or laptops anymore - they spend their money on a nice phone, and do all their internet accessing on a phone. This is definitely the future for the next 10 years, at least.