The future of forums (vs social media)

[snoopy5]

The only forums I go to are webmaster forums. Anything else, I Google or ask a Facebook group.

I don't really have a need for forums myself, plus the alternative is easier.

But this I do not understand. You said at the beginning of this thread, that you need a "new kind of forum". But on the other hand you are part of the group, who do not need forums. This is not an accusation. It is just an observation. You are happy with what you have already at your hands to gather information and interaction. So why are you looking for something else? There is nothing broken with your way of doing it. You get all you want.

For me it seems that the concept of forums is just not the right thing for you, which is fine. But why then are you trying to make a new Facebook out of your forums, if you would not use it anyway yourself? My assumption is, that you are part of the "group" I described above. No matter what XF would offer you, you would stay with the way you read/communicate in the past. Which is totally fine...

But there is another point in your posting which is worth a lot for us I think. Nowadays, it is so easy to search and find answers to questions without beeing part of anything. No need to register somewhere. No need to post a question. It is almost guaranteed that the same question was already asked in the past and you will find the answer anonymiously with Google.

15 years ago, people needed forums to get answers, they needed to register to ask questions. This is not anymore the case. No matter whether these are forums, Facebook or something else. So the only driver for the growth of forums seems to be emotions. Community. In depth interaction with people who share the same interest/hobby etc.

 

[teletubbi]

This is not anymore the case.

Not right for all.
There are forums closed to public. There are content you can't find at other places.

 

[snoopy5]

Not right for all.
There are forums closed to public. There are content you can't find at other places.

True, but then Google does not index it and nobody will know about that forum....

 

[teletubbi]

If you open just a part to public (google) to interest people it work in that way.
The more interesting things come after registration.

 

[drastic]

But this I do not understand. You said at the beginning of this thread, that you need a "new kind of forum". But on the other hand you are part of the group, who do not need forums. This is not an accusation. It is just an observation. You are happy with what you have already at your hands to gather information and interaction. So why are you looking for something else? There is nothing broken with your way of doing it. You get all you want.

For me it seems that the concept of forums is just not the right thing for you, which is fine. But why then are you trying to make a new Facebook out of your forums, if you would not use it anyway yourself? My assumption is, that you are part of the "group" I described above. No matter what XF would offer you, you would stay with the way you read/communicate in the past. Which is totally fine...

I don't visit any forums (except a few webmaster forums) because there's easier methods of finding the random info I need. Even as a webmaster and forum owner, looking for forums to get info just isn't what I do. Social media is quicker for a simple question and I get a handful of basic replies and can turn that into an in depth conversation as needed. Google search gives me info without a registration process, usually leading to a WordPress site. They're both quick and easy. They both hurt forums and we need to compete with that.

However, as a webmaster/forum owner, I want to provide a good service and community for users that's easier to use. I mentioned several times that I have extremely hard time convincing people from FB to join our site. Even my friends don't care for it. They say it takes too much work or "get an app" because Facebook/Twitter is just so much faster to post and get a reaction or answer.

XF is probably the best system I've used in years. WordPress lacks community features, but has really nice content delivery and SE's love it. Any social scripts I've tried were piss poor in organization or had half working modules (addons), and XF is the closest I've been able to get my site to what I want without spending up to $xx,xxx in development costs.

A few touch ups on the way the first post looks and video uploads permitted; a forum with only prefixes (no nodes), content that appears as nice as WP when shared on FB/Twitter, and an easier/faster way for users to post something whether it's a picture, video, link, long text article, (and the reactions/comments are the forum replies), etc...sounds like Facebook, but that's how it should be - fast and flexible with the focus on sharing something and reacting/responding to it.

See how easy it is to post a profile/status update on XF? What if we could do a regular post like that instead? Get rid of profile posts and just make this the new method of posting. The only thing you'd need is to add a prefix to it.

Then people can see the live updates, OR, they can click on any given prefix and organize it by that.

And inside those posts (which essentially are forum posts), people could post comments (forum replies), and share them etc.

If they're viewing the live updates, then they only see the preview and have to click on "view full post" to see the rest. That's where the post looks great with it's content and share links...

I dunno....I think with enough good ideas and heads together, that we can find a way to beat social media at their own game and make our audience a lot bigger.

I'd love to see a site from XF be the next big thing.

 

[snoopy5]

If you open just a part to public (google) to interest people it work in that way.
The more interesting things come after registration.

You have to have a real USP to be able to convince searchers to register then. If it would be content they can have elsewhere over Google, they would not register...

 

[teletubbi]

The content I show to public is also unique and they can't read it in full.

 

[Max]

But this I do not understand. You said at the beginning of this thread, that you need a "new kind of forum". But on the other hand you are part of the group, who do not need forums. This is not an accusation. It is just an observation. You are happy with what you have already at your hands to gather information and interaction. So why are you looking for something else? There is nothing broken with your way of doing it. You get all you want.

For me it seems that the concept of forums is just not the right thing for you, which is fine. But why then are you trying to make a new Facebook out of your forums, if you would not use it anyway yourself? My assumption is, that you are part of the "group" I described above. No matter what XF would offer you, you would stay with the way you read/communicate in the past. Which is totally fine...

But there is another point in your posting which is worth a lot for us I think. Nowadays, it is so easy to search and find answers to questions without beeing part of anything. No need to register somewhere. No need to post a question. It is almost guaranteed that the same question was already asked in the past and you will find the answer anonymiously with Google.

15 years ago, people needed forums to get answers, they needed to register to ask questions. This is not anymore the case. No matter whether these are forums, Facebook or something else. So the only driver for the growth of forums seems to be emotions. Community. In depth interaction with people who share the same interest/hobby etc.

You totally have a wrong picture about the internet and forum users. Years ago there were less number of people on the internet and it was not easy to discuss/find information. So ppl who find/discuss information over the internet were way more geeky than today.
Most of those geeks used forums, news groups, IRC etc.. Other not much geeky ppl were not able to take full potential of the internet. Actually many had not much to do over the internet than checking mail or watching porn

But with so easy to use facebook and social media sites, internet attracted so much crowd and people start to understand things more easily and get things done over the internet. Actually those sites made the internet grow faster and drag the interest of normal user.

Its not like they were not interested on talking or discussing things over the internet, they didn't know how and it was too geeky with forums. With facebook and social sites now they have an easy method they understand.

I remember vBulletin 2.0, Ikonboard around decade ago had the same basic structure like todays xenforo, vbulletin, IPB in general.
Forums have to evolve! You can attract most of the people who run/join facebook fanpages, groups, if forums were easy to use and have a better integration to facebook, twitter they already have.

In simple we need a easy to use attractive UI with max possible integration with social media.

About google listing forums in search results, you can see many unique/active forums like XDAForums, Many car forums appear high in search results. If people use your forum get links to your threads it will get listed without any issue. Google list what people use and unique content.

So first we have to fix the UI and have better integration with Fb and twitter, with visitors/content google listing will flow without much issue.

 

[snoopy5]

@Max

I do think that regarding the userinterface we de have all the same opinion. See the first part in my post above.

Where I do disagree with you is the point regarding user behaviour. I am using the internet since around 1994. Since around 2000 I have my own internetforums. I can assure you that around 2000 there have not only geeks using forums for their subject of interest.

With Facebook the masses startet using the internet. But they did not change their interests or behaviour. They use the internet the same way how they lived outside of the internet. They still do not go in depth and in detailed discussions. They are still not interested in 10 pages threads where people are talking a subject to death. They more likely particiapte in 10 pages full of lol, smilies, jokes and other superficial chit chat.

It is just a question how you want to spend your time and the vast majority of Facebook et alii users will never be interested to use a forum. This is NOT our target group today while they use still intensive FB. BUT many of them become older, change their interest. The sexiness of Facebook etc. will decrease for some of them. Those people will then either exit all kind of internet activity or they will start be suddenly beeing interested in something "more profound", less fast-paced.

And this is why it is so important to improve the usability of forum software: If you want to seduce that Facebook target group in the moment when they have to make a decision in how going forward with their private time, internet activity and life outside of the internet, we need to make it as easy as possible to switch over to our forum.

That means connections to all kind of logins of social platforms, UI as easy and simple to use as the social media they are used too etc. Maybe even importscripts for dummies for FB-Groups on a userlevel, not only as forum admins.

Thinks of it like smartphones. The iphone was a success. Nowadays all smartphones look like an iphone and are used like an iphone from the UI. Copy a proven and successfull usability concept, if you want to stay in the game.

BUT the majority of the Facebook users will never make the step to switch to a forum, no matter what UI you offer them. They will do what they did in 2000. They simply ignore it and move on with their life outside of the internet.

None of my friends is using forums. They all use FB etc. Some of them started already to show up less and less on FB, some of them quit totally. But they will never change and will therefore never appreciate the advantages of a forum.

Not everybody needs the internet for his interests. There is a life outside of the internet and many people prefer to meet others who share their interest in real instead of discussing in forums. We have to accept that. The same people use the internet for reasearch etc. But will never join a forum.

 

[drastic]

The same people use the internet for reasearch etc. But will never join a forum.

Exactly why XF 2 needs a huge change in it's content delivery and interface. The masses of casual Internet users don't care about forums. We need the hybrid of XF+WP= beautiful content with an engaging audience who generates content on their own, with the best of it going to the homepage.

There isn't too many things to change that could get us there...

 

[snoopy5]

We need the hybrid of XF+WP= beautiful content with an engaging audience who generates content on their own, with the best of it going to the homepage.

So would your solution be an official supported bridge between XF and WP?

If yes, and if comments then appear on both, in WP below the article and in a XF thread at the same time, would Google would not punish this because of double content?

 

[imno007]

It seems to me that some of you are asking for Xenforo to produce a completely different kind of software, that's more of a social media platform than a forum software. Which is fine—no harm in asking, I guess—but I wouldn't hold my breath. It's kind of like marrying someone with the expectation that you'll change them over time, it doesn't usually work out that way. If you basically want a Facebook or Twitter clone or whatever, with forum integration, I'm pretty sure there's already software out there that does that - although it will probably cost you quite a bit more than XF. I'm thinking about something like SocialEngine, which costs $300 and up. And if XF ever were to add all the features some of you want, don't expect it would be cheap. And if you think all the people you know on Facebook might flock to your new Facebook-like website, be prepared to be disappointed, because they already have a Facebook and everyone they know is already there. Yes, I know I'm oversimplifying things in my criticism here, since there's probably things XF can do to cater to the FB/Twitter masses more (if they want to), I'm just saying that some of you might want to have more realistic expectations. Right now XF makes forum software, not CMS software. You paid for the former.

 

[sami simo]

I'm thinking about something like SocialEngine, which costs $300 and up

I have a SocialEngine license and never used it. I still prefer XF.
SE is is not the forum software that most admins want. they want forum software with CMS and Social media features, not the CMS itself, nor a full packaged social media software.

 

[Max]

@Max

I do think that regarding the userinterface we de have all the same opinion. See the first part in my post above.

Where I do disagree with you is the point regarding user behaviour. I am using the internet since around 1994. Since around 2000 I have my own internetforums. I can assure you that around 2000 there have not only geeks using forums for their subject of interest.

With Facebook the masses startet using the internet. But they did not change their interests or behaviour. They use the internet the same way how they lived outside of the internet. They still do not go in depth and in detailed discussions. They are still not interested in 10 pages threads where people are talking a subject to death. They more likely particiapte in 10 pages full of lol, smilies, jokes and other superficial chit chat.

It is just a question how you want to spend your time and the vast majority of Facebook et alii users will never be interested to use a forum. This is NOT our target group today while they use still intensive FB. BUT many of them become older, change their interest. The sexiness of Facebook etc. will decrease for some of them. Those people will then either exit all kind of internet activity or they will start be suddenly beeing interested in something "more profound", less fast-paced.

And this is why it is so important to improve the usability of forum software: If you want to seduce that Facebook target group in the moment when they have to make a decision in how going forward with their private time, internet activity and life outside of the internet, we need to make it as easy as possible to switch over to our forum.

That means connections to all kind of logins of social platforms, UI as easy and simple to use as the social media they are used too etc. Maybe even importscripts for dummies for FB-Groups on a userlevel, not only as forum admins.

Thinks of it like smartphones. The iphone was a success. Nowadays all smartphones look like an iphone and are used like an iphone from the UI. Copy a proven and successfull usability concept, if you want to stay in the game.

BUT the majority of the Facebook users will never make the step to switch to a forum, no matter what UI you offer them. They will do what they did in 2000. They simply ignore it and move on with their life outside of the internet.

None of my friends is using forums. They all use FB etc. Some of them started already to show up less and less on FB, some of them quit totally. But they will never change and will therefore never appreciate the advantages of a forum.

Not everybody needs the internet for his interests. There is a life outside of the internet and many people prefer to meet others who share their interest in real instead of discussing in forums. We have to accept that. The same people use the internet for reasearch etc. But will never join a forum.

We are not talking about people who visit facebook just to like other persons family photo.
Facebook has groups and fanpages under every topic with nearly billion of people actively discussing and sharing ideas. That's our target crowd.

 

[imno007]

I have a SocialEngine license and never used it. I still prefer XF.
SE is is not the forum software that most admins want. they want forum software with CMS and Social media features, not the CMS itself, nor a full packaged social media software.

Well, as I said, they can want and they can ask. My only point really is that that's not what XF makes and that's not what they paid for, nor would I expect it anytime soon, and if XF ever does offer all that then they can expect to pay a relatively hefty price for it all. If they want it all now I guess they can look at IPB for most of it, but of course I know that most will gripe at that because they'd prefer to keep the XF forum software - which is maybe better (in my opinion) partly because they're not always busy developing all those other things along with their forum software.

 

[sami simo]

What Do you mean when you say: People didn't pay for this.
When people ask for Facebook features, it's just a away to say:
Forums needs to have more interactivity, instant alerts, more user engagement, better user interface...
When people ask for more CMS features, they are in fact asking for a better way to organize, display and access content..
Saying people didn't pay for that, cannot be true, it's like saying: Forums should always be hard to navigate, bloated with irrelevant content, because people didn't pay for other choices.
People don't have to pay extra, to make any software, better, more modern and easier to use, developers have to make those decisions by themselves.

 

[TPerry]

People don't have to pay extra, to make any software, better, more modern and easier to use, developers have to make those decisions by themselves.

I think what he was referring to was the CMS aspect. And you didn't purchase "any software". You purchased (at the base level) a forum script. Wanting it to perform the duties of a CMS, a full social platform (ala FB), etc. is a drastic paradigm shift.
Classic case.. what @drastic wants to do is possible currently... all it's going to take is throwing enough money at it to get it done the way desired. Not everyone has a desire to use the "gamification" aspect that is requested.

 

[sami simo]

I think what he was referring to was the CMS aspect. And you didn't purchase "any software". You purchased (at the base level) a forum script. Wanting it to perform the duties of a CMS, a full social platform (ala FB), etc..

Is this what I want?
If you ask me , I would say no.

 

[imno007]

Is this what I want?
If you ask me , I would say no.

Then maybe you should have bought something else. If you bought XF on impulse, with little knowledge of what you were paying for, or you paid for it with the expectation that you would eventually get additional features you personally want (despite the devs never promising you those features), then you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[The Geek]

Forum structure is just not enough to engage anymore. Even for me. I HATE googling for a solution and getting a forum. Often, its a multipage discussion, with no threading... just a wall of posts in linear order. People quoting to try and form context, but to the average person trying to follow the context... its a pain. I think threading (at least at a shallow level) is important again.

There is also no natural filtration processes other than highlighting posts with likes. But do I need to go through each page in a thread to find the most liked to get the best answer (which usually also lacks context because multiple people are having a conversation in the same thread)? I think up/down voting is important to accomplish this. It pushes higher quality top level posts to a more visible level.

I also dislike forums as content groupings. If I hit new posts, I don't get the best of the latest, I just get the latest of EVERYTHING. Take a forum dedicated to programming... I get served up with posts about languages I really don't care about which buries the content I DO care about. This also contributes to forums becoming dominated by fewer forums... the most active are the ones most "advertised". I need a way to say "just these forums" or at least a way to bias them. We then need a way to aggregate what is considered "active content" for the groupings.

And responsive design... important to have, but they have nothing on the effectiveness of native apps. I ditched my white label Tapatalk when I moved to xf. Tried with all my might to get people to use the responsive aspects, but eventually had to cave in because the bottom line is that its a PITA compared to the ease of their native app. The system needs to be built with an api first approach.

Finally, forums needed to cater to every need. Arcades? Currencies? These kinds of things were important to keep the site sticky in early 00's, but the more whistles and bells, the less the site becomes about content. Which is what people engage your site for now. So KISS. Make content and user interaction with that content the most important thing.