Person selling 3 XF licences

[Floris]

Isn't it rather them wishing to know about factors which will have a huge effect on the future of something they've paid for? I think that's justified, just like people wanting to know what would happen to their addons/premium accounts when you disappeared for a while (even if it's personal, a simple "it's personal but I will/won't be back" would suffice).

In regards to the premium accounts on xenfans, they had an expiration date, and were renewed at no cost until the end of the year, and I took the site off after that. So.. that's nonsense what you're saying.

In regards to "their addons", none of the addons I released on xenfans were taken offline, All the add ons were made free, though still owned by me obviously, and they work on 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 of XenForo. The only thing that discontinued was the ability for me to give support for it. So, that's nonsense and just an argument based on false assumptions.

And in my personal situation, there were a handful of reasons why I closed XenFans, one being that I am unable to keep the site open due to the other reasons, and at that point it certainly was enough - and it's what should be enough for users using my site. The other reasons are personal, the part of "they are personal" simply means there is no obligation at all to share them. It was clear that people don't respect you for 'having reasons', and that respect is only given if you give them all the details in full. I see the same happening here with Kier. And it's mildly put: Pathetic behavior.

You ask for a "it's personal, I am dealing with it" statement, while Mike already spoke for Kier by saying he's posting less because he's dealing with personal stuff.

It's all said already by the team here: Kier is indeed posting less, but that doesn't affect development of XenForo, and any elaboration of this is up to Kier to post, as the reason for him posting less is that he's handling personal things.

So accept that as a fact, or patiently wait until they feel there's a reason for an official statement, if ever made. I am sure once it does affect this company, the customers of this company, or the future of this company, that an official announcement will be made.

That all said, I completely agree with quite some opinions, and I also think it's at the least a very fair question to ask. Please don't get me wrong on that part. My 'negative' posting about this matter is just my own opinion based on seeing the question asked in 50 different ways, and that the original answer isn't being respected as an answer.

Anyway, I wish Kier the best of luck with everything. And I hope Mike doesn't take most of the comments made by some customers too personal. They're both great guys.

 

[mrGTB]

Mike already spoke for Kier by saying he's posting less because he's dealing with personal stuff.

As others have pointed out already, I also don't see in that post Mike made were it clearly states the reason for Kier's 6 week absence. Apart from to say, both personal and professional matters are none of our concern. Honestly, so much can be read into that post, it's very vague and not clear one way or the other, it pretty much tells you nothing. Others have said the same, so that's not my view alone!

Nobody wants to delve into the personal life of Kier, or anyone else. All people are saying here, is give us "something" to go off. For example if being something personal, all is takes is a statement like this: "Kier is not here until further notice due to personal problems I cannot obviously go into, but he will be back in the future to continue developement of XenForo".

We can't even get that much said it seems, just to put people's mind at rest that he will in fact be back.

 

[MrLeft]

I've been lurking for a while now having initially bought my license in the initial pre-sale more as a show of support to an alternative to the nightmare that was vB (some of you might recall some of my longer rambles as DJ RRebel on the vB forums .. lol)! Not that vB was such a horrible product .. but that it just hurt seeing them make bad decisions and taking forever to get things done and most importantly being so frustrated because vB COULD have been a much better product than it was when I stopped using it (essentially putting my site into hibernation).

I'm speaking now because I seriously don't want to see anything similar happening here with xF!

First of all .. the speculation is a little silly! People really should buy a product for what it can do! If a member of the team isn't around for a short period of time then that is their business AS LONG AS it does not have a significant affect on the product support and reasonable expected development! I think a big part of the problem is that most of the people here are here because of their disappointment in other forums just not becoming what they need after so many years! So when xF came along with a fresh new codebase made for the modern web everyone got excited and expected the moon and beyond! On the other hand .. the xF was very clear they were going to concentrate on the core forums for the foreseeable future and for people to NOT EXPECT a CMS or Gallery or any other time intensive commitments!

However .. what was promised was better communication .. and on that front .. I hate to admit it .. but it's not as open or as regular as I think many of us were expecting (although still admittedly better than it was at vB a few years ago .. lol). The open endedness of various dates to expect things drives me nuts! It was one thing that totally killed me with vB! How hard is it to update every couple of weeks that things are on target or not! By now it's not unreasonable for us to know if we can expect 1.2 in the first or second half of Q2 (telling some of us not to expect it until the end of the quarter will allow us to better plan our time .. which is a HUGE deal for many of us), and at this point it's not unreasonable to know if we can expect the RM (first announced 10 months ago) before, after or at the same time as 1.2.

Also .. it's an unspoken fact that many of us first bought and supported xF because of the TEAM developing it! To the credit of Mike and Kier .. many people were not necessarily buying xF because of what it did at that moment .. and we weren't necessarily expecting the moon either (even if we secretly hoped for it .. lol) .. but for the most part we looked at the experience and talent of you put together along with the initial xF software and made safe assumptions of where the software would be 1, 2 and more years down the road .. also that if things changed along the way in terms of technology, that the team was quick and smart enough to adapt quickly and ahead of the competition. So most definitely that does not mean people should be expecting both of you to be working on this 24/7/365 .. by all means you have the right to personal lives and vacation time. However .. on the flip side .. if half of the development team goes unusually quiet .. it's not unreasonable for clients to be a little concerned! It most certainly is NOT because there is no faith in the other half of the team ... but it's more that it cuts down development time in half (an amount already cut down an unknown fraction by the lawsuit, which is why it makes it an even bigger deal, and possibly a legitimate concern to some is if Kier has stopped working on xF for legal reasons).

To me .. I was really expecting to see the RM at least in beta in much less time than this (it would have been much less of a big deal if the communication about it had been better in terms of timeframes .. even if we were told ahead of time that it was being pushed back) .. although that's not entirely the end of the world for me personally. My concern is more on a mobile skin/access. In the last 2-3 years, mobile browsing has gone from under 1% to over 20% and climbing about 1% EVERY MONTH! This is a big deal in my eyes as it was something I was expecting from the xF team before getting this far along in the mobile game! I'm not even talking about apps .. but simply a really good and functional skin/theme specific for mobile usage! I know this was never promised at the start .. but it's change in the internet and base technology .. and as such is something that is not unreasonable at all for us to expect to be incorporated into the product in a timely manner. This is a critical element that is missing and far overdue and the primary reason why some of us are concerned about diminished overall development time by the xF development TEAM. Again .. I want to stress that it's not a knock on Mike .. but it's a fact that 4 great hands are better than 2 great hands! lol

I seriously hope all is well with all members of the xF team and your loved ones .. and by no means are we owed personal details what-so-ever .. but I don't think it's unreasonable for us to ask the status of the development team in terms of actual involvement with xF development? Are both halves still working relatively full time on xF? If not is it a permanent, an indefinite, or something that has been planned with a set "back to normal" date (or is it that Kier is just too eyeball deep in code to have time to use the forums .. lol)? Again .. your personal lives are your own .. and even how much time you choose to devote to xF is ultimately at your own discretion .. but for paying clients, it's not unreasonable to want to know that status of xF development both (short and long term), which very much includes the working status of the team developing and supporting it .. particularly since I think most of us will agree it is an amazing team that has delivered a great quality product so far!


PS .. Floris .. just saw your post .. and I think the problem most are having is that there hasn't been a clear statement that it actually is something personal. In fact .. my first assumption would have been that it had to do with the lawsuit! But I don't want to speculate at all. If such a basic must have as a xF-quality mobile skin had been out a year ago when mobile was already starting to make a dent I wouldn't even care .. but the fact we are 10 days away from 2012Q2 with no mobile skin/style IS a development concern for me .. and the only reason why I'd like to know more details on the time/energy dedicated to xF by the xF development team!

PPS .. again .. I really hope all is well with Kier and everyone in his personal life .. and more importantly .. even if I don't think xF is perfect .. I want to be clear that I do think it is an amazing product, and that the reason I'm so concerned is because I believe it has soooo much potential to be even better!

 

[RobParker]

You ask for a "it's personal, I am dealing with it" statement, while Mike already spoke for Kier by saying he's posting less because he's dealing with personal stuff.

I may have missed that and apologies if I have. All I've seen is Mike make a post saying he'll leave it for Kier to explain (which is NOT the same and has led to some stupid speculation along the lines of a falling out, legal issues, etc).

I completely disagree with you and if there was a "it's personal, I am dealing with it" statement made then I think that would satisfy everyone and all that we'd see is people wishing Kier well and respecting that it's private.

 

[Lisa]

While I've no interest in getting involved in the theories and speculation going on. I will ask one question. When did posting (or not posting) on a support forum become a necessary part of developing the software? Just because Kier isn't active on the support forum currently for whatever reason doesn't mean he's not still coding and developing. I think everyone needs to remember that the developers don't have to be active on the forums day in/day out - that's why they have moderators (Brogan and Lawrence) and the amazing, if unofficial, support from Jake Bunce

 

[RobParker]

Being "active" and not logging on for 5 weeks is quite a big difference, especially when previously he was on here daily.

Obviously we all hope Kier is well but a little info to stop any stupid speculation would help.

 

[Robbo]

So. This just gets worse. None of you know how development works obviously. All of you have been spoiled too much with what they have given you so far. Jesus. I am ashamed to be a part of this community. You are all acting like the idiots petitioning for a new ending to Mass Effect 3. "I didn't get this! Why is this happening? Why doesn't this person say something! Omg someone didn't post for ages, are you going under?".

I have just lost a lot of faith in the human race. Thank you.

 

[Lisa]

Being "active" and not logging on for 5 weeks is quite a big difference, especially when previously he was on here daily.

Obviously we all hope Kier is well but a little info to stop any stupid speculation would help.

Who says he's not logging on as invisible? If memory serves, the date last visited shows the date he was last visible online (I could be wrong on that though). As far as I'm concerned, so long as development is still ongoing - which Mike and Brogan have both said it is - then the reasons why Kier isn't posting like a demon is none of my business.

 

[mrGTB]

Hmm, I can accept there are times he'd want to login as "anon", especially when not wanting to be pestered. But doing it for nearly 6 weeks though when previously we all saw him showing as online daily night and day, makes little sense.

 

[RobParker]

So. This just gets worse. None of you know how development works obviously. All of you have been spoiled too much with what they have given you so far. Jesus. I am ashamed to be a part of this community. You are all acting like the idiots petitioning for a new ending to Mass Effect 3. "I didn't get this! Why is this happening? Why doesn't this person say something! Omg someone didn't post for ages, are you going under?".

I have just lost a lot of faith in the human race. Thank you.

I think that's a bit unfair. When a company with serious legal issues which consists of only 2 developers who play a very active role in the community has 1 of the developers "disappear" for a substantial amount of time people are bound to worry (both for their investment and for Kier himself who a lot of people like/respect on here).

 

[Floris]

I guess everybody forgot the first 9+ months after leaving Jelsoft's team nobody heard from Kier either. And he and Mike spit out XenForo you all have been downloading with a huge smile on your face since the end of the summer of 2010.

Just saying.

 

[Robbo]

For 6 weeks? Not online? Did you ever try to speculate within reason? As a developer myself I can think of a LOT of reasons why someone would go offline. NONE have anything to do with the crap in this pathetic thread. This community is just tainted with spoiled brats. You all have your moneys worth once you buy a license, well and truly. And XenForo is here for the long run, there is NO way it is going anywhere. Now feel free to stop making me stupider from reading your posts (not aimed at you Rob as you post reasonably).

I'm going to bed. I hope to wake to a heap of people crying about my posts... will be at least a nice change to the crying I'm reading now about someone appearing offline for 6 freaking weeks after working for more than a year basically every day.

 

[John]

"Some" people don't have anything better to do than run around from one end of the internet to the other gossiping like idiots about whatever suits their fancy. It's sad, really, but also extremely annoying.

In regards to Kier, if he or anyone else felt it necessary to explain in detail what is going on with him, it would have happened. It is his life after all, and is truly no one's business but his.

 

[RobParker]

In regards to Kier, if he or anyone else felt it necessary to explain in detail what is going on with him, it would have happened. It is his life after all, and is truly no one's business but his.

No one has asked for it "in detail" at all. I wasn't worried at all until Mike's comment which could be interpreted in different ways. Before then I just assumed that personal stuff was taking up his time and he'd be back when he could be.

 

[HowardS]

I am amazed some people feel they have the right to Kier's social calender and last I heard buying a piece of software gave you nothing more than the hope of good software supported diligently. Am I missing some small print that says XF directors are on some sort of quota system?

No company can run full throttle day in day out so there will be time constraints occasionally and they don't have to be detailed as intelligent people expect them.

 

[Mike]

No one has asked for it "in detail" at all. I wasn't worried at all until Mike's comment which could be interpreted in different ways. Before then I just assumed that personal stuff was taking up his time and he'd be back when he could be.

That is all it is. End of.