General 2.3 discussion

[TPerry]

Probably would help if the Bug and suggestions nodes were organised and moderated better.

There's buy threads open with no resolution or awaiting answers from years ago. Or suggestions from years ago that aren't relevant.

Can't be... we know that everything there is handled in a timely manner and nothing is left to languish.

 

[TPerry]

We’ll continue to do what we’re doing in the manner that we feel is best, and if you don’t like it, I suggest going somewhere else.

If it wasn't for a certain 3rd party developers add-ons, you can believe I would. XenForo itself has brought nothing to the table that benefits my site directly in the last 2 years... and guess what, as license holder, I really don't care about other peoples sites.. but mine.
And sorry to burst a bubble... but it's not only me that has concerns about your companies lackadaisical attitude toward the end user experience.

 

[btmgreg]

If you're getting sick to death at members on this forum, paying customers for having an opinion and shouting/speaking loud/moaning because they believe that the software can be better or want it so, then that's a worrying turn of events.

There's a reason XF (staff) commented on the 'distaste' at the lack of communication, and that was to alleviate paying customers fears and show us that they're listening and hearing us. That, and the commitment to release often from 3.0 onwards I think it was.

I hope that's still the case, even if the comments of 'We'll keep doing what we're doing' is the common response. Communication is or has been an issue, maybe that's why the small subset of users that make you 'sick to death' - hopefully that will change for the better on all fronts.

I too think some of the new features are decent, but always yearn for more - the pace is slow. It's good that you have a passionate small subset of users that want or expect more. I'm still grateful and I'm here for the ride.

 

[Suzanne O]

If you're getting sick to death at members on this forum, paying customers for having an opinion and shouting/speaking loud/moaning because they believe that the software can be better or want it so, then that's a worrying turn of events.

There's a reason XF (staff) commented on the 'distaste' at the lack of communication, and that was to alleviate paying customers fears and show us that they're listening and hearing us. That, and the commitment to release often from 3.0 onwards I think it was.

I hope that's still the case, even if the comments of 'We'll keep doing what we're doing' is the common response. Communication is or has been an issue, maybe that's why the small subset of users that make you 'sick to death' - hopefully that will change for the better on all fronts.

I too think some of the new features are decent, but always yearn for more - the pace is slow. It's good that you have a passionate small subset of users that want or expect more. I'm still grateful and I'm here for the ride.

Everyone here is sick of having to add to their ignore list because somebody with karen syndrome decided to complain all the time about the software they use and the staff members.
This is why a big word an important word called respect is needed.

 

[Chris D]

If you're getting sick to death at members on this forum, paying customers for having an opinion and shouting/speaking loud/moaning because they believe that the software can be better or want it so, then that's a worrying turn of events.

It’s irksome when it comes from certain people because they speak with a sense of entitlement as if they’re the only customer that matters and it comes across as disingenuous and in this particular case, entirely selfish.

People like yourself who may be underwhelmed but can understand how the sum total of what we’ve added is a net benefit to the software and a wider reach of customers and their members, I can respect that.

I have little respect for people who belittle the sterling effort the entire team have worked hard on for the last couple of years, just because they can’t perceive any value that doesn't benefit them personally.

 

[TPerry]

It’s irksome when it comes from certain people because they speak with a sense of entitlement as if they’re the only customer that matters and it comes across as disingenuous and in this particular case, entirely selfish.

Really? WHERE exactly is my sense of "entitlement" when I'm asking about improvements for the literal bread and butter of a site... the end user.
You and I both know that the majority of the "improvements" that have been offered over the last several years, very few of those benefitted those "besotted users who don't matter". You know.. the very things that keep a site alive?
And simple stuff... like why can't an end user re-use attachments that they have already uploaded instead of having to jump through hoops of having to upload them a second time (not the friendliest process on any forum script).
There are tons of little things like this that get completely ignored because there is not enough "developer worship" from doing/implementing them.

 

[Paul B]

Really? WHERE exactly is my sense of "entitlement"

I really don't care about other peoples sites.. but mine.

 

[Suzanne O]

The only funny side of this is the person we're on about is being so disrespectful because he's complaining about Xenforo Software and it's staff on the forum he's got a license on.
Shows no respect what so ever.
As a forum administrator if somebody was doing that on my forum i'd be giving them the boot because they are a known serial pest. Especially knowing if they've done nothing but whinge about the whole thing for the past 2 years.

It's kind of like going to a dinner party and somebody being disrespectful to the host.

Everyone else loves the food and the drink and entertainment.
This one person keeps complaining.

So irritating.

Feel sorry for what the Xenforo staff have to put up with.

 

[Starbucks]

It’s irksome when it comes from certain people because they speak with a sense of entitlement as if they’re the only customer that matters and it comes across as disingenuous and in this particular case, entirely selfish.

People like yourself who may be underwhelmed but can understand how the sum total of what we’ve added is a net benefit to the software and a wider reach of customers and their members, I can respect that.

I have little respect for people who belittle the sterling effort the entire team have worked hard on for the last couple of years, just because they can’t perceive any value that doesn't benefit them personally.

So far I’m excited about the webhooks update, and well, I’m also curious about the 3.0 design overhaul.

Now, will there also be an update with the communication from you guys? Staff 2.0 perhaps.

So far you guys have been more interactive with the community, and also sharing a lot more with us.
I hope you guys keep it up with that, this’ll avoid any future “roadmap” discussions that’ll end up off-topic, and a wildfire of comments. (And frustration on both ends).

 

[btmgreg]

So far I’m excited about the webhooks update, and well, I’m also curious about the 3.0 design overhaul.

Now, will there also be an update with the communication from you guys? Staff 2.0 perhaps.

So far you guys have been more interactive with the community, and also sharing a lot more with us.
I hope you guys keep it up with that, this’ll avoid any future “roadmap” discussions that’ll end up off-topic, and a wildfire of comments. (And frustration on both ends).

This. Entirely this.

A roadmap would be great though. And organised. And exciting..

 

[TPerry]

Sorry @Paul B, but you fail to show a sense of entitlement when dealing with the meat on the bone... end user development/improvements. I think we ALL are more concerned with our own sites than someone else. To claim otherwise is simply a fallacious position.

Now, care to deal with the actual meat of the subject... .the lack of improvements for the end user of sites?
Granted, some will get great benefit of what has been presented... but there are MANY more end users of sites that would like stuff to be a little easier in their day to day visiting than admins.
As pointed out... the hassle of the inability to reuse attachments already uploaded, resulting in having to find and then upload an attachment again.
The fact that XF offers custom fields...but those custom fields are all but useless until they can be searched easily and consicesly.
It's not the "big things that bring in praise" but the small things that make things easier for the end user we are talking about... and things that have been ignored. Remind us all.... how long has SSO and/or webhooks been sitting out as a suggestion?
Never mind that there are still suggestions outstanding from 2010 that have not been acted upon in any way (some of which no longer even apply to XF in its current version). And many of those do deal with end user interaction.
And on old friend (an attorney) once told me... when you can't defend, deflect.

 

[Suzanne O]

Sorry @Paul B, but you fail to show a sense of entitlement when dealing with the meat on the bone... end user development/improvements. I think we ALL are more concerned with our own sites than someone else. To claim otherwise is simply a fallacious position.

Now, care to deal with the actual meat of the subject... .the lack of improvements for the end user of sites?
Granted, some will get great benefit of what has been presented... but there are MANY more end users of sites that would like stuff to be a little easier in their day to day visiting than admins.
As pointed out... the hassle of the inability to reuse attachments already uploaded, resulting in having to find and then upload an attachment again.
The fact that XF offers custom fields...but those custom fields are all but useless until they can be searched easily and consicesly.
It's not the "big things that bring in praise" but the small things that make things easier for the end user we are talking about... and things that have been ignored. Remind us all.... how long has SSO and/or webhooks been sitting out as a suggestion?
Never mind that there are still suggestions outstanding from 2010 that have not been acted upon in any way (some of which no longer even apply to XF in its current version). And many of those do deal with end user interaction.
And on old friend (an attorney) once told me... when you can't defend, deflect.

Can you please stop blaming the staff for your selfish issues?

This is what is causing them to become the angry bear that was severely poked by you.

 

[mjda]

Now, care to deal with the actual meat of the subject... .the lack of improvements for the end user of sites?

I'm not trying to argue, but I'm genuinely curious...which suggestions, in particular, were you hoping made it into 2.3? You may have said before, but I don't recall.

 

[TPerry]

I'm not trying to argue, but I'm genuinely curious...which suggestions, in particular, were you hoping made it into 2.3? You may have said before, but I don't recall.

I could go through a whole list... suffice to say, there are many user interface related improvements that have been out for upwards of a decade that have not been acted upon. Some of them are fairly large in scope, some are as simple as when mirroring an image from a node copy the text into the mirrored image description optionally (or custom fields) down to the user being able to search site wide based upon prefixes (this would be problematic for as many as I use, but would be of end user benefit on sites using prefixes) or custom fields.

 

[Matthew S]

I could go through a whole list... suffice to say, there are many user interface related improvements that have been out for upwards of a decade that have not been acted upon. Some of them are fairly large in scope, some are as simple as when mirroring an image from a node copy the text into the mirrored image description optionally (or custom fields).

If you bump the suggestions for the features you need, I'll vote on them. I just searched the suggestions for "reuse attachments", for example, and only found one thread with that as a topic and it has only 16 votes. While my needs are fairly meager compared to many, I may not know what I'm missing out on, either.

 

[mjda]

If you bump the suggestions for the features you need, I'll vote on them.

Precisely why I'm curious. I, personally, haven't seen many suggestions that I would think are detrimental to my site, or many that I'm even concerned about, but I'd definitely be interested in looking at some of the ones he's interested in. I certainly can't go through the entire forum looking for suggestions that I like, and I don't spend a lot of time in that forum (unless I'm looking for something in particular, which isn't often).

 

[Forsaken]

2.3 is an infrastructure update, much like many 1.x updates were. The fact that many major foundations for development and future changes were added is a good thing, even if it is disappointing that there is nothing that is specifically game changing.

XenForo obviously could do a better job in anticipating every edge case situation but... I do not know a development team that does so without receiving feedback , and even then, it is not as if every single situation can be fully accounted for.

One stand out thing about 2.3 is that a lot of it is focused on providing tools that mostly cater to people who are self hosting still, which is a markable difference from the competition. Whether or not you're unhappy with the current development pace or the communication provided in the past (which has since picked back up, and they've actively said they're changing the release cycle) everyone should be happy that XenForo still providing better consumer forward business than competitors.

Also as someone who is dealing with a nightmare client in a project manager role: **** roadmaps, as they're more trouble than they are worth and you almost never get to stick to them.

 

[TPerry]

I certainly can't go through the entire forum looking for suggestions that I like, and I don't spend a lot of time in that forum (unless I'm looking for something in particular, which isn't often).

And therein lay the weakness in the methodology used. The actual number of license holders that post, much less read and react, in the suggestion area is probably not overall that large of one, and of those that do, the majority are developer related.

 

[Paul B]

If you bump the suggestions

Bumping suggestions is not permitted.

 

[James]

If you bump the suggestions for the features you need, I'll vote on them

Bumping suggestions is not permitted.

In which case just provide links