General 2.3 discussion

[Forsaken]

And therein lay the weakness in the methodology used. The actual number of license holders that post, much less read and react, in the suggestion area is probably not overall that large of one, and of those that do, the majority are developer related.

The silent majority provide no feedback, and XenForo does not collect usage statistics about platform configurations so they cannot anticipate the hypothetical needs or desires without being provided with said feedback or suggestions.

Bumping suggestions is not permitted.

Suggestions are basically a self-defeating prophecy of disappointment and regret. If they're not a popular suggestion, you risk getting prefixed lack of interest (aka every designer or developer suggestion), and if they do get some interest, they lack visibility because there are 58 pages of open suggestions and no way to bring attention to them until someone posts a related post where you can pander for a vote.

That said I do not know of any method of handling suggestions that doesn't have serious cons, but sometimes it feels that rule enforcement for suggestion is more strict than rule enforcement of people providing services or the forum showcase .

 

[Paul B]

I don't make the rules.

I gave up trying to apply the rules to the showcase forum.

 

[mjda]

And therein lay the weakness in the methodology used. The actual number of license holders that post, much less read and react, in the suggestion area is probably not overall that large of one, and of those that do, the majority are developer related.

To be fair, though, XF doesn't only implement the suggestions with the most votes. Heck, as far as I can tell, they don't only implement ones that are suggested on the site at all. I'd imagine they have an internal list of features they'd like to add, and then combine those with a list of the ones that they think would be the most useful to the software as a whole.

Personally, I think it's a wise business decision to focus on developer related features. As you say, the 3rd-party developers are a huge part of XF's success, but it's been that way since the beginning. Even though I, like you, don't like the idea of installing those add-ons on my site either (the only add-on I use that I didn't write myself is @digitalpoint's App for Cloudflare®), for various reasons, I believe folks like us are in the minority there and I don't blame them for catering to that. I do write my own add-ons, though, so I appreciate how easy it is to do the things I want in this software compared to others I've used, which means the developer related features are of great benefit for me from that aspect too.

Would it be nice to be able to get my users excited about a ton of new features we're bringing to the table? Absolutely! But, I'm also not worried that I'm going to lose members because I'm not adding new features at a rapid pace.

I think there are a few features my members will be excited about in the dark style (one of the most requested features on all my forums, and the ones I come up with are a bit meh...), the boosted performance (although my members already comment on how quickly my sites load, if they can be faster, then even better!), and the featured content.

Also, if XF's promise to give us more regular (albeit smaller) updates holds up, at least we won't have to wait so long to get each new feature and, hopefully, you'll be able to get some more of the features you're looking for without having to wait years.

 

[Forsaken]

I don't make the rules.

I gave up trying to apply the rules to the showcase forum.

I would too .

 

[TPerry]

Would it be nice to be able to get my users excited about a ton of new features we're bringing to the table? Absolutely! But, I'm also not worried that I'm going to lose members because I'm not adding new features at a rapid pace.

I don't think anyone is asking for that. As I pointed out previously... stuff like being able to do site wide prefix searches, searches on custom fields and such help content discovery. Nothing major... but sensible extensions. Hey, let's mirror an image from a thread, but carry no content from that thread forward to the gallery with it!!
But hey, we got 3rd party developers that may stay around for a year to two to do that for us.
It seems like that is not a prime concern.
And yes, XF has pretty much always depended on outside developers... but there was a period of advancement that they went through that dealt with end user interface benefits.
It's really not worth arguing about it here as they will do what they do, and then the license holder(s) will make a determination if the cost to play with the new stuff is worth it or if they can simply stay on what they currently run.

 

[Paul B]

It's really not worth arguing about it here

If only that were true.

 

[mjda]

I don't think anyone is asking for that. As I pointed out previously... stuff like being able to do site wide prefix searches, searches on custom fields and such help content discovery. Nothing major... but sensible extensions. Hey, let's mirror an image from a thread, but carry no content from that thread forward to the gallery with it!!

See, most of those things wouldn't even remotely interest me. I use very few prefixes, and I'm sure my members couldn't care less whether they're there or not. In fact, I'd assume most of them consider it a nuisance because they either 1) don't use the ones I offer or 2) just stick with whichever one is the default one selected. Maybe that's only my site though...who knows...

I don't use custom fields on any of my forums. In fact, none of the forums I frequent make use of custom fields. For those who use them, sure, I can see how a search for them would be nice but I can't imagine that a majority of forum owners even make use of custom fields. Again, I admit that I could be wrong...

I do use attachment mirroring but, honestly, I don't care if the thread content is mirrored or not. I'd say a lot of times the post content isn't all related to the attachment so it'd just be one more place where unnecessary content is added to the site and, especially, in a place such as the media gallery it wouldn't make much sense (at least to me) to add the entirety of a post with the attachment. Especially on my site, there may be several attachments added to the same post. We're just going to copy that post's content with all of those attachments? I don't like that plan at all.

So while you're hoping for these things to be added, I'm sitting here hoping the devs never "waste time" on any of that because none of it is useful to me, my site, or my members. Maybe I'm in the minority...maybe you are...either way, therein lies the dilemma that the devs face when deciding what to/not to add to the core.

 

[TPerry]

If only that were true.

It's not, that's why I'll simply vote with my wallet, as will others that decide that XF is going down the wrong track.

 

[TPerry]

I don't use custom fields on any of my forums. In fact, none of the forums I frequent make use of custom fields.

Neither did I, until I discovered what a benefit they could be. Instead of having an add-on to force fields into a post that the user is required to fill in (and somewhat sloppily at that) it allowed detailing of information that is of benefit to certain niches.
Same way with Prefixes.... depending on the niche(s), they can be a help or a hindrance. But the point is content discovery since the function(s) are already there. There are there to be used, so they should also be there to be discovered. You would think especially if one was going to spend the extra money on ES add-on they would make more use of it, considering it's called a search improvement.

 

[mjda]

Neither did I, until I discovered what a benefit they could be. Instead of having an add-on to force fields into a post that the user is required to fill in (and somewhat sloppily at that) it allowed detailing of information that is of benefit to certain niches.

Yeah, I just can't think of any way they could be useful for me in my niche.

Same way with Prefixes

Oh, I'm all about prefixes. I just don't think my members are as into it as me so I don't use them all that much. As I said, I think my members consider them more of a nuisance than a benefit.

There are there to be used, so they should also be there to be discovered.

I don't disagree with this. It's just not my cup of tea because, as I said, it doesn't really offer any benefit to me. Maybe it was a bit of an oversight, or maybe they just didn't think the use cases would be worth the time/effort to code it.

 

[TPerry]

I don't disagree with this. It's just not my cup of tea because, as I said, it doesn't really offer any benefit to me. Maybe it was a bit of an oversight, or maybe they just didn't think the use cases would be worth the time/effort to code it.

Apparently at least 110 others tend to think it's not a bad idea...dated back to around 1/2 decade ago.

XenForo suggestions

Please post any suggestion that you'd like to see as part of XenForo here. If you have a suggestion for an official add-on, please use the correct add-on suggestion forum. If you have a suggestion for a third-party add-on, please post it in the add-on's thread.

xenforo.com

 

[JamesBrown]

Looking at the HYS‘s so far, I’m quite excited about how we can use these new features to benefit our users. Webhooks and single sign on open up massive possibilities my members will love. And how is featured content, faster sites, and easier uploads, not end user focussed?

 

[TPerry]

and easier uploads,

Can you point this one out... I must have overlooked it, as that is one of the complaints that I get is the hassle it is to upload media to the site.
I already have optimization of images in place, and that's not the same as uploading images, which is not the same as embedding images. XFMG seems to be difficult for some to wrap their head around when using personal albums and how to create them or move them so they upload into the nodes instead of galleries.

 

[Matthew S]

Bumping suggestions is not permitted.

Bump is so 2010, anyway. These days we cleverly say things like "Say, I really need this. Do you think it will be included in XF2.3? ", or "If this ever gets implemented I hope it has XYZ options."

 

[JamesBrown]

Can you point this one out...

Ah, so you chose one, so do you accept the other HYS's present so many opportunities to better the end user experience?


Meanwhile, read it yourself and see where it can help your users, its pretty self explanatory.

XF 2.3 - Image optimization, enhanced image resizing, and more!

We hope you're enjoying the "Have you seen...?" series for XenForo 2.3 so far. We still have quite a bit more to show you while we work on adding the last finishing touches before we unleash XenForo 2.3 on this very forum. This week we're going to talk about various improvements we have made...

xenforo.com

 

[TPerry]

Ah, so you chose one, so do you accept the other HYS's present so many opportunities to better the end user experience?

Never claimed they didn't bring benefit to some.... care to point out where I said they didn't.
And I did read that... nowhere did it reference streamlining uploading as you claimed.
As for optimizing images at time of upload.... already been doing that with a paid 3rd party add-on (isn't that the XF way?).

 

[JamesBrown]

nowhere did it reference streamlining uploading as you claimed.

Two can play your silly game of ignoring the thrust of a message and picking up on a single point just to argue.. My turn.. I never claimed anything about streamlining uploads. Care to point out where I did? I said easier uploads. Ooh I win....such a fun juvenile game.

Meanwhile, the general thrust of your *****ing is that all the HYS's so far are admin focussed with little or no stuff aimed at the end user. Frankly, if you can't see how the HYS's so far benefit end users then you have no imagination or are just being obtuse.

 

[TPerry]

I said easier uploads. Ooh I win....such a fun juvenile game.

no, it doesn't even do that in reference to what you commented on and what I was referencing (end user benefits that you clearly acknowledge in your post). There is already an asset uploader available.. to admins... can you explain the difference between admins and users and what they have access to and how that asset uploader benefits the end user? You specifically stated

Meanwhile, read it yourself and see where it can help your users, its pretty self explanatory.

I read it several times and never saw what you referenced about easier uploads.
Kind of hard to admit you were wrong eh?
That's alright... you'll outgrow it. We all make mistakes in statements... even I. But I have no problem admitting if I am wrong. That was why I specifically asked you to point out where user uploads were getting "easier uploads" as I could have easily over looked it and it would be a welcome thing..
I'm pretty sure I have also said that there are functions that are going to benefit some... but not as near as many as you may think. And for those sites that don't use them... they offer no benefit to the end user.
I'm personally hoping that I can figure out a way to get the webhooks to work with Telescopius.... but generally that will require co-operation on both sides.

Hopefully they'll drop some good news about search improvements, specifically the 5 year old suggestion (with 110 upvotes) to allow custom fields to be searchable.

 

[JamesBrown]

Kind of hard to admit you were wrong eh?

I never find it hard, I'm always grateful to be put right. Never had the urge to thank you though. Keep up the *****ing, maybe we have another pretend flounce on the way. they're great fun too.

 

[TPerry]

I never find it hard, I'm always grateful to be put right.

apparently you don't... you claimed easier uploads... was asked where you saw that at, then you went off tangent when called on it.
As I have said... 2 years, not a lot to show for that time, especially when you compare to other vendors progression during that same time period.
I've gotten a quite a bit of direct feedback here and on other sites from long time license holders of XenForo that are in no rush to upgrade as there's not a lot being brought to the table for them. They simply don't desire to put up with the pitchfork fanboi brigade as easily as I am so are hesitant of saying anything here.
As long as the major add-ons I use continue to be supported, I'll continue to use XF on my primary site. It may not be the latest version.... but I have a suspicion more and more are doing that, only upgrading when something they need is brought forward (in my case, I wanted the latest 3rd party add-ons and they were dependent on a newer version of XF but depending on what those 3rd party add-ons offer in their newer version I may not avail myself of the paid for upgrade path).