Current Litigation

That's why courts allow expert witnesses to testify...
Anyone can now buy a certificate for 'Certified Engineer' and then claim to be an expert in the field.... (You did see the office picture)
ibshoestringclub.webp


I'm no Perry Mason, but certainly IB knows that they are grasping for straws. I think IB's main goal is to not necessarily "win" the case, but to cause as much collateral damage to XenForo as possible, hindering the the lose of customers as much as possible.

That I know is happening, as I tried to sending a potential customer to xenForo (was selling my vb lic.), but did not want to purchase cause of the pending lawsuit. I gave the link to this forum told this person to read though the documents and posts to get same understanding what is beaning claim.
 
Could very well be. But I think that their purpose is two-fold.
I strongly believe that they want ownership of XenForo.
On the surface, this would seems true, however you have to remember, IB filed this suit even before (If I am not mistaken) a public beta was available. They had no chance of seeing the code, yet they claimed copyright infringement. How could you possibly? Where they hoping that it was a copy? Surely they are not that naive. Who knows what they are actually thinking.
 
On the surface, this would seems true, however you have to remember, IB filed this suit even before (If I am not mistaken) a public beta was available. They had no chance of seeing the code, yet they claimed copyright infringement. How could you possibly? Where they hoping that it was a copy? Surely they are not that naive. Who knows what they are actually thinking.
Maybe they want to do on others that they claim was done on them.... 'Hacked' or most likely someone gave and or had unauthorized access to xenForo computers/website (was outside his flat and peeking over Kiers and Mikes shoulders). My bet is that xenForo was a working product at 'Alpha' stage and since vB is bug ridden, so why is not a script that can be created by 'Experience Developers' with most likely about 20 years of growth knowledge have the same undesirable bugs at release...
 
I'm no Perry Mason, but certainly IB knows that they are grasping for straws. I think IB's main goal is to not necessarily "win" the case, but to cause as much collateral damage to XenForo as possible, hindering the the lose of customers as much as possible.
I have to agree with this. I've thought all along that IB is scared to death of what Kier and the team can produce. (with Kirk's track record, they didn't have to see anything to know it would be a great product) Instead of trying to compete with a better product (something they clearly haven't been able to do) they have resorted to legal action. It doesn't matter if they have a leg to stand on, they have deep pockets and there is no recourse (at least here in the US) for frivolous lawsuits. Not only does it slow down new customer acquisitions, but it can put an enormous amount of debt (from legal expenses) on xenForo that could hurt the company. (unfortunately, speaking from first-hand experience here)

I strongly believe that they want ownership of XenForo.
I have my doubts. If that was the case they would have created an environment that encouraged Kier and others to stay. (as well as supported a build from scratch, like others have suggested) Even if IB wins (by some fluke) they can't force the xenForo team to work there. The code is only as good as the team that created it and it would quickly die loose it's luster with others working on it. (like vB4.0) It would be cheaper for them to have a team build a great product from scratch than the legal costs of what they are doing.


--Ed
 
Could very well be. But I think that their purpose is two-fold.
I strongly believe that they want ownership of XenForo.
I tend to agree with on that point, they've made a hash of the current code base and I'm not convinced the current development team has the ability to start from a clean slate. The sad thing is even if they did win and get ownership of Xenforo and it's code it would end up in the hands of the same developers who have hashed things up.
 

I have my doubts. If that was the case they would have created an environment that encouraged Kier and others to stay. (as well as supported a build from scratch, like others have suggested) Even if IB wins (by some fluke) they can't force the xenForo team to work there. The code is only as good as the team that created it and it would quickly die loose it's luster with others working on it. (like vB4.0) It would be cheaper for them to have a team build a great product from scratch than the legal costs of what they are doing.


--Ed

You're assuming that they think logically.
 
Actually, look up U.S. Civil Litigation Rule 11. Some people should be worried.
While the rule is there, it is very vague and open for interpretation. I looked into recouping my legal fees when my company was wrongfully sued and my lawyers strongly discouraged it since I would just be spending more money on a very slim chance of getting anything back. Sadly, I was out over $50k in expenses, and it never went to trial. My law firm reduced the fees, which I am sure they wouldn't have done if they thought they could get the full amount via Rule 11.

Obviously you've got to go with what your lawyers are telling you. (something that can't be discussed here on the public forums) I just hope they are putting their money where their mouths are by waiving your fees as they plan on recouping them from successfully using Rule 11. :)

--Ed
 
Anyways, people seem to think if IB wins that means xenforo becomes property of IB... which at this stage is not even on the agenda from what I read.

If IB were to win, most likely XF would be delt a cease and desist of any future sales, and IB would be awarded damages for infringement...

Considering the claims of re-used code will in due course be disproved, ib won't get their grubby mits on anything.
 
Actually, look up U.S. Civil Litigation Rule 11. Some people should be worried.
That will not stop this type of practice, as penalties are not set high enough to discourage such lawsuits getting pass the clerks desks to the Judge.

If they lose, then it is only the retainer fee, as in house lawyers are cheaper then always hiring out (I am assuming that they are using own team).... Oh and about $25,000 at most for such fines... (unless that was recently changed). Seems doubtful they will go the 'Out of Court Settlement' route, as this will show IB/vBS has no clue on what own code looks or why xenForo has better showing in google results. (must of stolen the howto manual to better software development)
 
So is there any merit to xF counter-suing for costs/damage to their business, or is that something best left until afterwards?

Or would it just be a waste of time/money?

Cheers,
Shaun :D
 
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