Current Litigation

[Peggy]

I really wonder how they're going to prove this.

That's just it, they can't prove it. None of it. It's all based on assumption, imo.

If you go back and read the papers, they're saying that he had unfettered access to all of the Jelsoft network, plans, ideas, computers, etc. Remember it says that he went around the offices and talked to people, etc?

Amidst all of the legal mumbo jumbo, this seems to be at the heart of the suit... that because he had this unfettered access, he must have stolen their ideas and intent, and built XenForo.

Rubbish, every bit of it.

 

[Carlos]

Yep, I think some services in the UK offer it for something like £45, so around $73 if my math is correct.

I don't think that xenforo needed to be incorporated the same day, so I have a feeling that Darby did not pay for the expedited process of the articles.

If you go back and read the papers, they're saying that he had unfettered access to all of the Jelsoft network, plans, ideas, computers, etc. Remember it says that he went around the offices and talked to people, etc?

Here is the thing. iB has proven that they've been lying all this time. They're going to say that when Darby was developing vb4, he had stolen the plans, coding ideas, and feature ideas - thus making xenforo the "vb4."

As soon as darby resigned, Darby had no access to the iB computers, plans, network, etc. I don't think he has a reason to. As the development of xenforo has proven, he can code his own forum software anytime he wishes. In 6 months no less.

 

[Shamil]

I don't think that xenforo needed to be incorporated the same day, so I have a feeling that Darby did not pay for the expedited process of the articles.

The stuff was recieved for filing in electronic format on 24th June 2010. It was also on this day that the company was incorporated and thus registered. I have a copy of the certificate, memorandum, articles of association.

 

[steven s]

Here is the thing. iB has proven that they've been lying all this time.

It needs to be proved in court, not on the internet.

 

[Peggy]

Here is the thing. iB has proven that they've been lying all this time.

Lying about what? I'm sure he did go around and talk to Jelsoft staff. He already knew most of them. He was visiting from UK. It's always nice to put a face with a name on the ones he didn't already know. I know I would. So on that, I'm sure they're not lying, he probably did go around and chat it up.

They're going to say that when Darby was developing vb4, he had stolen the plans, coding ideas, and feature ideas - thus making xenforo the "vb4."

As soon as darby resigned, Darby had no access to the iB computers, plans, network, etc. I don't think he has a reason to. As the development of xenforo has proven, he can code his own forum software anytime he wishes. In 6 months no less.

It's not that they're going to say anything. They've already said...

1. That Kier stole their plans, ideas, and intent, while he was employed with Jelsoft. They've already stated that.
2. That XenForo is stolen code from vBulletin, and that is the ONLY reason he was able to produce XenForo so quickly. From stolen code.

WE know they're "mistaken". The court doesn't. That's what counts.

 

[xenDach]

That's just it, they can't prove it. None of it. It's all based on assumption, imo.

If you go back and read the papers, they're saying that he had unfettered access to all of the Jelsoft network, plans, ideas, computers, etc. Remember it says that he went around the offices and talked to people, etc?

Amidst all of the legal mumbo jumbo, this seems to be at the heart of the suit... that because he had this unfettered access, he must have stolen their ideas and intent, and built XenForo.

Rubbish, every bit of it.

Actually, I would say Bob Brisco thinks he still owns what is in Kier's and Mike's heads or thinks he has some rights over them. All the other poor allegations are just white wash made up by IB's lawyers, because they can't write in the complaint "Bob Brisco wants to have Kier's and Mike's ideas back." I think basically Bob thinks the concepts and ideas put into XenForo must come from previous development efforts for vB4, because Mike and Kier once worked there, for him.

My opinion? Yeah right!!!! Where are those concepts in vB4 then? Where is the clean use of stylevars? The clean symantic use of HTML and CSS? Where is the MVC framework? Where is the cool looking style? Where is the great performance? WHERE IS THE LIKE BUTTON!!!!

Etc. etc. etc.

If Bob were a man with a nuance of back bone, he'd just eat his pride and acknowledge he made a really crappy, stupid and ignorant decision to not leave Kier in the lead of vB and let him and Mike and the Jelsoft dev team do vB4 from scratch. It was a really, really, really, stupid decision. Now he is fighting the acknowledgement of the mistake with these crappy lawsuits.

xenDach

 

[HannahP]

It needs to be proved in court, not on the internet.

Damn. I thought this would be wrapped up tonight.

 

[Fred Sherman]

In the US legal system, the burden of proof rests with the plantif and the evidenciary standard is a preponderance of the evidence. They have to provide that it is more probable that xenForo is based on vB than a completely new product. It must outweigh the benefit of the assumption of innocence.

As a programmer and IT professional, I can see the truth as plain as day. The problem is a judge doesn't have my 27 years of experience.

 

[Peggy]

The problem is a judge doesn't have my 27 years of experience.

And therein lies the problem.

 

[DoctorWatsOn]

Remember it says that he went around the offices and talked to people, etc?

etc? What else was he talking to? Computers? Desks?

Actually thinking about it, at IB he was mostly talking to brick walls.

 

[Peggy]

etc? What else was he talking to? Computers? Desks?

Actually thinking about it, at IB he was mostly talking to brick walls.

lol very true.

 

[MGSteve]

As a programmer and IT professional, I can see the truth as plain as day. The problem is a judge doesn't have my 27 years of experience.

And therein lies the problem.

That's why courts allow expert witnesses to testify...

 

[Kier]

So the allegation is that I travelled to California on behalf of my employer, and while at my employer's offices, I was observed talking to other employees...

Frankly I'm surprised they didn't call the police when they saw that.

 

[Dan]

Who do you think you are being so social?

 

[DoctorWatsOn]

So the allegation is that I travelled to California on behalf of my employer, and while at my employer's offices, I was observed talking to other employees...

Frankly I'm surprised they didn't call the police when they saw that.

When I first spotted the claim that you dared to talk to anyone else in the office I thought what a stupid thing to list, I can only assume they expected you to have travelled with a supply of bloody duct tape....

 

[Peggy]

So the allegation is that I travelled to California on behalf of my employer, and while at my employer's offices, I was observed talking to other employees...

Frankly I'm surprised they didn't call the police when they saw that.

They didn't know then that you were leaving, did they?

 

[Peggy]

This whole thing is stupid. Utterly ridiculous.

 

[Dan]

I'm no Perry Mason, but certainly IB knows that they are grasping for straws. I think IB's main goal is to not necessarily "win" the case, but to cause as much collateral damage to XenForo as possible, hindering the the lose of customers as much as possible.

 

[Fred Sherman]

That's why courts allow expert witnesses to testify...

Agreed. One technical expert from Zend could blow this wide open.

Sir, in your expert opinion, having studied the code of both product, is it more likely that the defendant started with vb code, applied innovative ideas and translated it to the Zend framework or is this a completely new work? Keep in mind, the plantiff alleges only six months were involved. Which is easier and more likely in 6 months?

I am reminded of a project I did in the late 80s. We were "rewriting" a sateliite telemetry ingest program for NOAA. The old code was Fortran V, which didn't have character data. We had integers and and ACSII function to convert to test output. (Cool, huh?)

The replacement code was C++. I guarantee you that even while it was considered a "rewrite", not one bit of code or program logic was reused. It was a completely new effort, based on input about the satellite operator user experience and knowledge of the data stream.

Even funnier? We did it in 6 months too.

 

[Peggy]

I'm no Perry Mason, but certainly IB knows that they are grasping for straws. I think IB's main goal is to not necessarily "win" the case, but to cause as much collateral damage to XenForo as possible, hindering the the lose of customers as much as possible.

Could very well be. But I think that their purpose is two-fold.
I strongly believe that they want ownership of XenForo.