An honest opinion - PLEASE

[Kev@ITK]

Hi guys

New to the forum obviously...

In a nutshell, i'm a 30% partner in a new venture, responsible for all things 'admin' which at this point will include everything website/forum based. I would like to add at this point I am an accountant by trade so spredsheets are the depth of my computer related talents!!

Our site will begin as a forum and in time turn into a full site, with the forum being just a part of it. By that time we'd hope to take on someone more advanced in the field but for now it's just me. We're a revenue based forum so will be looking for site sponsors as well as wanting to incorporate an online shop 6-12 months down the line (either our own stock or as a reseller).

On the face of it, I would like:

• Strong Facebook/Twitter links (although I would ideally like the forum to use the 'flat' format instead of the 'threaded' approach social networking seems to be taking these days as I find it very hard to follow content this way.
• Blogging
• Live chat (not essential as wonder if this takes away from forum content?)
• Full website incorporating an online shop (would want the forum users to be able to purchase direct from the shop so everything would need to be fully integrated)
• User friendly (both for the end user and for me as the responsible admin!)

I'm sure there is more but that's all I can remember for now. Oh yeah, there's likely to be plenty of pics/vids flying about so a slick way to organise those would be great too.

I was originally all set to buy vBull but version 5 BETA has really put me off and the more I reseach vB in general now the more i'm put off. I'm now edging towards either XF or IPB.

I fully appreciate this is a XF forum but would also appreciate your valued HONEST opinions based on my requirements? I'm not asking you to slag one option or the other, just help me spend our pennies wisely!

Many thanks in advance...

Kev

 

[John]

Even without the issues XF currently faces I don't think I would expect an as robust set of extensions built into the core as you see with IPB anytime soon. IPB is 10 year old software with a large team of developers. So, what it comes down to for you (sounds like to me) is can you live with depending on 3rd party developers for both the short and possibly long term to bring you what you need to be able to use XF. No one can answer that question for you, but you.

 

[Chris D]

This reply I received on another board just now pretty much sums up my feelings:

"Xenforo is fantastic at doing the job it's designed for - forums. People love its ease-of-use; the workflow, alerts, simple and reactive layout all help to make it a great user experience and draw people in to chat at your community.

I moved CycleChat from IP.Board to XenForo and have seen nothing but growth since (and the inline modding tools make things quicker and easier for me and my moderator team so we're much more productive).

However, you're unlikely to see any of the "extras" added to the core anytime soon (if at all) and if development of XF doesn't pick up in the coming months you will find add-on developers rethinking their XF time/input and run the risk that any add-ons you do use will become unsupported. They may not, but it is something to consider.

So, a very solid and likeable forum product that will stand you well for a good while as you develop your community, but which may not be able to support the extra site elements you want in the longer term; ergo, if they're absolutely essential, IP.Board would be a safer bet (but is more clunky TM)."

This time yesterday I was all set to go with XF, up to about an hour ago I'd started to lean the other way and now I'm undecided again!!!

That guy hasn't said anything different to you than I said.

It is a solid forum product for all those reasons he mentioned and that is the focus of the developers. He even said himself that IP.B is "more clunky" and that is what the XenForo devs want to avoid.

But at the same time, XenForo is fantastic to extend and develop therefore a lot of additional functionality can be added using the add-ons. And, as far as I can tell, every single thing you mentioned is either built in or available as an add-on.

So, yeah, the situation hasn't really changed, but I can still understand you being undecided.

 

[Kev@ITK]

SHOULD it worry me having to rely on third party developers instead of in house stuff?

Apologies for the questions guys, on a steep learning curve here like you wouldn't believe!

 

[David_]

SHOULD it worry me having to rely on third party developers instead of in house stuff?

Apologies for the questions guys, on a steep learning curve here like you wouldn't believe!

It would worry me.

 

[Slavik]

SHOULD it worry me having to rely on third party developers instead of in house stuff?

Apologies for the questions guys, on a steep learning curve here like you wouldn't believe!

Doesn't worry me

 

[Kev@ITK]

Ha, thanks for that you two! Seems I'll have to do some more digging as to the pros/cons of keeping it mainly inhouse.

Couple more points:

1) can those IN favour of IPB comment on their reported poor SEO?

2) can anyone point me in the direction of a mobile friendly Xen site?

 

[Kev@ITK]

I really can't understand that - I've posted across 5 different boards today and so far the help on this one has been second to none.

 

[Slavik]

i've been posting / asking for help for days, and no one hardly helps me at all...they're "selective" on who they help apparently so.. i don't even understand german language at all, and willing to bet to get more support over there lol

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Chris D]

Whoa there... What are you on about?

You've made 5 threads: http://xenforo.com/community/search/2571753/

One of them is the most active Pre-Sales thread I've ever seen.
One of them admittedly has no replies (maybe no one knows the answer?).
Another seems to have been answered sufficiently by Arty.
Another seems to have been answered by Jake.
And finally one that has only been posted a few hours ago.

I really don't see how your comments are justified.

 

[Chris D]

I think you've really gotten the wrong impression somehow.

I'm sorry you feel like that. I'm not going to tell you that you've got the wrong impression. You are merely stating your perception.

It isn't the perception most people get, that's for sure, but it is your perception nontheless.

I can't speak for anyone else, but out of the threads I posted in my previous post, personally I haven't responded to them as I am unable to provide the answer to your question and of course if I was to post "I don't know" then that would be even more unhelpful

I've been deep in developing all day so I haven't really been on here as much as normal but normally I help people as much as I can.

I suggest if you still need help with things you make the posts again. if you've deleted them. Or, maybe make a collective thread that outlines all of the stuff you need help with.

I mean, just look around dude. Hardly anything goes unanswered. People fall over themselves to answer questions. If that's not happened for you, it's a shame, but I'm sure it's nothing specifically against you.

 

[David_]

Ha, thanks for that you two! Seems I'll have to do some more digging as to the pros/cons of keeping it mainly inhouse.

Couple more points:

1) can those IN favour of IPB comment on their reported poor SEO?

2) can anyone point me in the direction of a mobile friendly Xen site?

1) I've honestly experienced no SEO drawbacks to using IP.Board to date. I ran it a while back in the 3.0 and 3.1 days and never had a problem, and I've just launched a new forum using their latest version and it's ranking first page already for the keywords.

 

[Morgain]

vVv you're hijacking someone else's thread. This thread is not supposed to focus mainly on your perception of being ignored. You could say it once but not carry on an in depth and lengthy debate on it. Not fair.
I suggest you copy your posts about this into a new thread so Kev can get the attention he needs on this one. If he wants to read your expeoence in full and thorough dtail he can but not here. It's very obvious from looking at this board that generally newcomes get excellent support. I've myself seen you get quite a lot. If you feel some of you requests are incomplete then re post. But not on someone else's thread.

Kev I'll answer two of you issues. XF status and chatrooms.
There has been LOADS of information about the XF court case stretching over 2 years. I've foillowed a lot of it because like you I was concerned. There are legal people giving information. The general assessment is that either XF will win the case because the case very very shaky indeed; or it will be settled early out of court, same reason.
That the other side have repeatedly failed to put in necessary documents, and made statements that anyone can see through no need to be a lawyer, plus one of their star witnesses decided that XF had done nothing wrong! rather indicates what it's like. It's just a business strategy game to try to distract and harass XF into collapse.

However although it's a 99% win/ settlement, a 99% prediction can still fail in the real world. For those of us who bought XF some time ago, if the case throws up something insanely unexpected - the judge has a migraine? we'll keep on with XF. We're established with it. Then it goes to appeal. The story continues.
Eventually if it really goes weird I've already seen signs that there are people who will take it over enough so we can continue to use it.

But that's not the same for you. I think in your position as a newcomer right now, I'd try to buy a second hand XF to play with. Even though it's easy to set up on its basics you're looking at a lot of extra stuff. Plus yours is a professional site. So 3 months preparation wouldn't be a silly investment anyway. (I took that long on my first one before I went live because I'm a perfectionist.) By that time we'll have the case result.
If it's good you're ready to go. If not, tiny possibility, maybe you go with another board. Can't imagine what because they are so inferior to XF. Not joking Ive tried them all. As I said I'm perfectionist and professional.

VB. Buggy, awkward clunky admin drives me crazy - still have to use it on one of my boards and I hate it. Though I kept it at 3.8 which is not bad. 4 and 5 are really awful. Also vey expensive and a ripoff contract.
IPB looks better than it is. I found most of a long list of mods/addons are actually dead. Support almost nonexistent on core or addons. Design and backend admin NOT FUN. Updates contantly ripping up what I had done.


On your point about chatooms depends if you mean a shoutbox on the forum - a little box on the same page - or a full fledged chatroom separately. If the second, which I do, you add a link to the menu bar at the top to open it.
A shoutbox does draw content out of the forums because it's right there on the side or the top and it's instant.
A full chatroom doesn't because you have to go and click it to open it. Unless it's a huge forum the chatroom won't have a lot going on unless it's deliberately organised. I have 2 meetings a week. They actually feed the forum as we discuss projects, nurture newcomes, and get better acquainted as persons. I generally post an informal report so the discussion can continue if there's anything substantial.

 

[Kev@ITK]

So, overnight I was perhaps edging towards IPB when I read this:

"IPB looks better than it is. I found most of a long list of mods/addons are actually dead. Support almost nonexistent on core or addons. Design and backend admin NOT FUN. Updates contantly ripping up what I had done."

Cool addons making us 'different' from the norm are likely to form a big part of the site.

 

[ENF]

So, overnight I was perhaps edging towards IPB when I read this:

"IPB looks better than it is. I found most of a long list of mods/addons are actually dead. Support almost nonexistent on core or addons. Design and backend admin NOT FUN. Updates contantly ripping up what I had done."

Cool addons making us 'different' from the norm are likely to form a big part of the site.

I'll go ahead and have to disagree with part in bold. I recently dropped XF for a new project for IPB (after confirming that I wouldn't invest in VB5) and have found so far that this isn't the case. Addons and products developed by third parties will always vary, no matter which product. For core product support, I don't think there is a problem there. I have found most of the answers I've needed already covered in the technical support forum @ IPB.

Cool addons making you different from other sites would involve developing addons yourself, downloading and using addons that everyone else is using won't make you any more unique than anyone else. Content and self-developed features is what will set you apart for any forum solution you choose.

From the sound of your original post, this is a business venture you are working on. From a business standpoint, for myself, I need to know that the product I am using has a future and will continue now and not a 'possibility' of continuing sometime next year. While I won't likely use VB5, I do have successful sites on vb3, vb4 and while I am hopeful XF will put itself back on track, IPB is the answer right now under the current circumstances.

Good luck on you final decision.

 

[Kev@ITK]

Thanks and I must admit at the mo the long term stability being offered by IPB is edging ahead.

Yesterday whilst posting I much preferred the IPB experience as none of the XF site were mobile friendly - such a shame in this day and age, especially with technology based forums. However, i'm back on my laptop this morning and XF is so much more fun/friendly to use.

 

[ENF]

Yesterday whilst posting I much preferred the IPB experience as none of the XF site were mobile friendly - such a shame in this day and age, especially with technology based forums. However, i'm back on my laptop this morning and XF is so much more fun/friendly to use.

This was a fairly large factor in going with IPB. While we have used Tapatalk and Forumrunner, having a built-in mobile skin was a cost saver in not having to reinvent the wheel, so-to-speak. IPS also has their own app to access IPB powered sites, which I actually didn't know about off-hand. That said, we'll offer up the mobile skin as well as access to Tapatalk since there are a large amount of people with Tapatalk already installed on their mobile devices. Users can also choose to use the IPB app if they choose as well, so plenty of avenues to access content.

 

[Kev@ITK]

This was a fairly large factor in going with IPB. While we have used Tapatalk and Forumrunner, having a built-in mobile skin was a cost saver in not having to reinvent the wheel, so-to-speak. IPS also has their own app to access IPB powered sites, which I actually didn't know about off-hand. That said, we'll offer up the mobile skin as well as access to Tapatalk since there are a large amount of people with Tapatalk already installed on their mobile devices. Users can also choose to use the IPB app if they choose as well, so plenty of avenues to access content.

Just to side track very slightly whilst I remember: adds/banners - are they possible via a mobile skin/app?

 

[Kev@ITK]

...and to add to that, any ideas as to why the demo site would be down?

 

[ENF]

...and to add to that, any ideas as to why the demo site would be down?

1) For advertising, I know there are some options and/or customizations. However, I haven't gotten that far into it yet to see exactly what is available. (I don't generally use ads, we generate revenue from services or subscription to content.) I did find this for the app and I know you can edit the mobile skin, but space for banners/ads is always limited on mobile devices.

2) The demo site, it's working for me. I started here and it was created instantly: http://www.invisionpower.com/demo/
(submit email, activate, get 2nd email > go to demo site)

 

[Slavik]

...and to add to that, any ideas as to why the demo site would be down?

Mike is performing some maintainance on the demo server. Part of this maintainance is the demo sites needed to be switched off and current demo's to expire before he can continue.

They should be back online in a day or two. (Possibly today, but not sure when)