XenForo 2.0 Discussion

[Brent W]

And therein lies the problem, hence the change in people's attitudes. It's highly unlikely that anyone today will invest several years to, hopefully, gain ground. So with that in mind we will just agree to disagree because you will not convince me and I will not convince you.

I guess so. I don't want good forum software to be dumbed down or changed to something else because people are lazy. I recommend they look elsewhere for software that gives them a pat on the back sooner rather than later.

 

[feldon30]

Forums are dying because they are mismanaged by dictators who think THEY are responsible for the success of the forum and not the membership they attracted. Facebook is successful because they realize the people are the content, give us stupidly easy tools to share stuff, a clunky but universal app, and then they sell that content back to us as hard as they can.

Show me a forum that puts posters first and makes it easy for them to share and make connections between people, share photos and video, and just GET OUT OF THE WAY of your posters, and I'll show you a forum that is thriving.

But instead you see people who burn out but won't let go and transfer ownership to someone passionate. Or you see the most influential posters driven off or banned because they provide feedback to the owner that the owner doesn't like. You see forum owners who become megalomaniacs who are convinced that they are the core attraction of the forum. That's when people leave.

 

[Gladius]

No it isn't. There are people that want to completely take XF and turn it into something else and it is a valid discussion to be had on whether or not that is a good idea.

Yes, it is. Every community is different. Something that works for yours or your niche has no necessary guarantee of working for another, which might be completely different. If that was not the case, we wouldn't have a few thousand permissions and on/off options in XF that we do. Any kind of absolute claims on what forums need to be just come out as either ignorant or arrogant, sorry.

 

[Brent W]

Yes, it is. Every community is different. Something that works for yours or your niche has no necessary guarantee of working for another, which might be completely different. If that was not the case, we wouldn't have a few thousand permissions and on/off options in XF that we do. Any kind of absolute claims on what forums need to be just come out as either ignorant or arrogant, sorry.

We aren't discussing small differences in forum communities. We are discussing large changes to this software that will attempt to make it something that isn't a forum. So please understand that.

 

[Gladius]

No such major changes will happen, past development history and XF2 direction are obvious clues there. Realistically, you are discussing small differences at best. Anything else is a pipe dream.

 

[mauzao9]

That has nothing to do with changing the entire scope of the software from Forums to something else, which is what I am referring to.

It, however, is the point I am making. When I think of it, I don't see PHP being the future.

By that logic, Xenforo is not the future of forum software as well. I wish it was, and possibly it may be, but as this new technology and frameworks develop and fleshes out allows more as it finds better solutions and improvements, how will xF be able to stay competitive?

 

[Brent W]

No such major changes will happen, past development history and XF2 direction are obvious clues there. Realistically, you are discussing small differences at best. Anything else is a pipe dream.

I am discussing what others are asking XenForo to become. Regardless, I am tired of saying this to you. If you want to continue to follow this conversation and complain about it instead of ignoring the posts, feel free to.

 

[Brent W]

It, however, is the point I am making. When I think of it, I don't see PHP being the future.

By that logic, Xenforo is not the future of forum software as well. I wish it was, and possibly it may be, but as this new technology and frameworks develop and fleshes out allows more as it finds better solutions and improvements, how will xF be able to stay competitive?

That is a valid concern but I don't think its anything to worry about personally.

 

[Kainzo]

I'm waiting patiently

 

[Chris D]

@Chris D the plan is for third party developers to have a solid base to work from, that's great, but what about core features? Third party add-ons can be excellent, but they soon build up a cost that, over time, can outstrip several times over the cost of the first party software very quickly.

Read it again.

A major goal of 2.0 is one that is technical in nature: improve developer efficiency.

Coincidentally, we're also developers! We've very much had in mind, all along, improving our own development efficiency just as much as anyone else's. That's sort of been the point all along.

 

[Gladius]

I am discussing what others are asking XenForo to become. Regardless, I am tired of saying this to you. If you want to continue to follow this conversation and complain about it instead of ignoring the posts, feel free to.

I was actually trying to explain some things to you that you seemed not to realize in your barrage of posts, but I won't bother any more.

 

[Digital Doctor]

What has changed is that some niches found better ways to solve problems, such as the Technology niche. Stackoverflow isn't a forum but it killed a lot of tech forums out there. There isn't anything that XenForo or any other forum software could do to prevent that from happening.

Sure there is and was.

I am all for making content easier to find in forums, especially content that specific users would be interested over other content. I am absolutely opposed to this idea that forums are dying and XenForo needs to reinvent the wheel though.

Forums are an information disaster. Phrases another way, they aren't useful.

My only complaint with XF 2 is their mind boggling hack job of a mobile navigation bar that shows up for desktop users and their insistence on representing new post content twice, under different urls.

Agreed.

 

[Digital Doctor]

Well spoken.

A forum is like Stackoverflow but without the snotty, elitist attitudes of longtime members...

A forum is like Stackoverflow without members and information isn't organized or findable.

 

[Brent W]

Sure there is and was.

What then? Other than changing it from a forum into something completely different and bloating the software for everyone else?

Forums are an information disaster. Phrases another way, they aren't useful.

I wouldn't call it a disaster but there is a lot of room for improvement when it comes to getting relevant content to each member.

 

[Digital Doctor]

What then?

You could start with threads that are threaded.

Other than changing it from a forum into something completely different and bloating the software for everyone else?

You want bloat ?
This thread is 140 pages of useless bloat, by design !!! That's bloat !

I wouldn't call it a disaster but there is a lot of room for improvement when it comes to getting relevant content to each member.

Total disaster.
From the lack of structured content to unusable search to 1997 photopost-like galleries to a forum home list that is just LOL. I really could go on.

This thread itself is a great example of what is wrong with forum software. A newcomer comes to this thread and it is an information disaster / useless.

 

[Brent W]

You could start with threads that are threaded.


You want bloat ?
This thread is 140 pages of useless bloat, by design !!! That's bloat !




Total disaster.
From the lack of structured content to unusable search to 1997 photopost-like galleries to a forum home list that is just LOL. I really could go on.

This thread itself is a great example of what is wrong with forum software. A newcomer comes to this thread and it is an information disaster / useless.

Disagree. I hate and always have hated threaded conversations. It promotes low quality posts with little content of value in my opinion.

Your views on the photo gallery are legitimate though. I think there could be much better ways to present it or integrate it into XenForo better.

As far as search, Elasticsearch works great for us with over 60 million posts.

 

[rwm1962]

Forums are an information disaster. Phrases another way, they aren't useful.

From the lack of structured content to unusable search to 1997 photopost-like galleries to a forum home list that is just LOL. I really could go on.

Not the feedback I get back from users

 

[Brent W]

Not the feedback I get back from users

Which is all that matters

 

[TPerry]

@Chris D the plan is for third party developers to have a solid base to work from, that's great, but what about core features? Third party add-ons can be excellent, but they soon build up a cost that, over time, can outstrip several times over the cost of the first party software very quickly.

I'm sure after the base has be solidified, then you will start seeing improvements in the core code (enhancements actually). Not in reality any different than what IPS did with their 4.x line. They released 4.0 before it was ready for prime time and then once they somewhat got it stable started adding some newer features into it - but that hasn't really happened until the most recent 4.2 line that they are working on.
As for a "suite" product - I imagine that somewhere down the line that the first party add-ons will be expanded, either by new code or obtaining existing 3rd party code and incorporating it into the XenForo line (which could be the smarter idea).

Forums, in general, are dying in as much as anyone attempting to launch a new forum is batting against the wind, 10 years ago a new forum would attract attention, now they mostly attract dust.

It's a user mindset. To get to the "facebook" style interface, you will lose the benefits that a forum have (which they do) over that type of social platform. All things are cyclical.

 

[imno007]

The world isn't that different from 10-13 years ago. Twitter is still Twitter, Facebook still looks like Facebook and forums still are growing at a great rate.

What has changed is that some niches found better ways to solve problems, such as the Technology niche. Stackoverflow isn't a forum but it killed a lot of tech forums out there. There isn't anything that XenForo or any other forum software could do to prevent that from happening.

I think this is really the answer to why forums are "dying" - or to maybe put it more accurately, why fewer are succeeding as much as they'd like to. It doesn't have as much to do with outdated technology or not enough innovative technology as it does with a relative handful of big players having a monopoly on most kinds of content. I don't see it being so different to what happens in the brick-and-mortar world: we still see small-time general stores and local hardware stores making a go of it, but not nearly as many as there used to be before giant chains like Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, & 7-Eleven came on the scene, and their days are probably numbered. I used to frequent a lot of local bookstores, but now because of Amazon and online book sales I have to drive thirty miles to get to a bookstore. One could come up with dozens of such examples. I see pretty much the same thing currently happening on the internet. There just isn't as much room for competition. It's hard to compete when most anything you can do is already being done better by companies with millions and sometimes billions of dollars at their disposal. Doesn't mean you can't still carve out some success for yourself, but having Xenforo transform into some kind of hybrid Facebook platform probably isn't going to magically do it for you.