XenForo 2.0 Discussion

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HWS

Well-known member
When you want to sell a product to end users you need to excite and engage them, not frustrate and confuse them; that's what chases them away.

This is a learning process for all involved. Even for the owners. And even if they make mistakes, it is their right to do, because the only people who will get harmed is themselves. Not everyone always acts as professional as it could be and nobody can expect that.
 

HWS

Well-known member
Could you imagine the frustration levels if XF2 wasn't mentioned. How many would be frustrated there was no indication of 1.5 yet? Better yet, of any work?

No matter what you do, someone will always get frustrated.
To steer a company or a software project means that you have to look from a greater point of view.

I am sure the owners here know that, even if people sometimes cannot understand. All we can do is provide suggestions and opinions. And maybe only after we've been asked for it or Brogan will come over us! ;)
 

wRolf

Member
I don't think it's a matter of who gets access to XF2 first or not. Personally, I think it's very reasonable if Chris and Brogan have full access to it (though Brogan said he doesn't, not sure about Chris), considering they're both staffs at Xenforo. I also don't think it's a huge deal when addon developers drop a project (personally that is, since I usually know how to fix it myself and I haven't used any large addons where I need to figure out the entire Xenforo programming layout).

These are just my opinions. While looking for a pre-defined avatar add-on, I saw at least 5-6 different threads asking about it which usually mean others like myself didn't bother asking as others have already asked. Then you look at the suggestion forum, and those same people, or people like me, didn't comment or like it. So it drops to the unpopular pile. I know some people are probably thinking, "Well, that's your fault and their fault for not looking at the suggestion forum", and although it is, I don't think it's entirely our fault or up to us to go about it. I used an addon made in 2012, that was also quickly dropped by the addon developer in 2012. I still use that same addon, as it wasn't too difficult for me to figure out how to fix it up to suit my own needs. But for a community admin/owner who doesn't know how to code at all or how to fix up an addon to suit his or her own needs, I can see it being extremely difficult and frustrating. There are user created tutorials on how to create an addon, how to read and write into xenforo database, and it's easy to figure out about the MVC framework used here, but the lack of official documentation will definitely put a lot of people off.

So why would I or others not purchase Xenforo 2? Like I said, if it's the same product, why should/would we? We have 18 or 32, or even as little as 2 addons already installed on 1.4.x that works. There is really no need for us to upgrade. Lets say somebody uses 1.4.4 and then 1.4.5 comes out and breaks half their addon. Would upgrading to Xenforo 2 fix those addons? The answer is no. And I don't expect it to either, cause that would be silly and unreasonable as those addons can be anything. I don't expect the developers to code everything cause that could be over a thousand addons for all we know, but I do believe it would be wise of them to improve on existing features with more options that would take away the uncertainty of addons that could break at anytime. Being certain that an option is there and won't break as it's part of the official release would give people more security and more of a reason to purchase Xenforo 2.
 

John L.

Well-known member
As a developer, here are my comments:
  1. A number of suggestions that had very little likes were included in releases for XenForo and some with a large number of likes have not been added. This comes down to what can and cannot be developed or the amount of changes needed to be made to the core software to accommodate the suggestion.
  2. I, personally, do not want a roadmap. As an addon developer we are fine with the current process in terms of how things are being developed. I'm also sure that XenForo would not want their competitors seeing what's coming up in future versions, etc. Do not give people fuel to complain when things change or *gasp* are removed from the roadmap.
  3. I would like addon developers to be included in testing the new software before it's available to the public. Give us an opportunity to make sure our addons are up-to-snuff and not scrambling come release time. Same for theme developers. I'm sure @Mike Creuzer and @Russ do not want to spend weeks updating their templates and miss out on potential sales.
  4. The suggestion forum works fine for what it is right now. As others have said, I'm positive likes are not the only determining factor in what gets added. I've suggested adding SASS/SCSS capabilities to XenForo 2 and while a few have liked it, I'm sure only a few truly understand what it is. It's a solid idea (IMO), but only a few probably know what the heck SASS/LESS even is.
  5. The whole favoritism aspect with developers to me is silly. @Chris D is an employee now and I'm sure he has seen what's going in XenForo 2 at this point. But so what? It's his job. As for @Brogan, he has like 1 major addon that he's released. Where is the proof that he has been treated any differently than me or any other developer? He probably has a ton more sales than we do, but not because he is favored, but because he is HYPER active in the community and nearly every XenForo customer knows who he is.
Just my $0.02 :)
 

Davyc

Well-known member
Being certain that an option is there and won't break as it's part of the official release would give people more security and more of a reason to purchase Xenforo 2.

This +1

I have to look very carefully at third party add-on's, especially if they are costly, before considering buying. I also look at the track record of the developer to see how good support is, how frequent updates are and any useful additions to the feature set.

I've suggested adding SASS/SCSS capabilities to XenForo 2 and while a few have liked it, I'm sure only a few truly understand what it is. It's a solid idea (IMO), but only a few probably know what the heck SASS/LESS even is.

This is one of the most important statements I've seen in this thread. I haven't a clue what SASS/SCSS is (though I intend to find out), the point being that just because from a personal point of view no value can be seen, doesn't mean that there is no value there at all.

And even if they make mistakes, it is their right to do, because the only people who will get harmed is themselves.

That's not quite true - it could harm their end users. And isn't it better to avoid making mistakes in the first instance, than to correct them afterwards? I know there is no such thing as perfection, especially when something just trots out of the stable, but far better to button up as many holes as possible before opening the stable door in the first place.
 

Tracy Perry

Well-known member
If there's nothing to get frustrated about then you don't get frustrated, but 6 months on since the first 'official' mention of XF2 and nada! Nothing! That's frustrating lol.
Why? Does 1.4.4 not do what you need it to?
Or are you one of those that have to have the latest/greatest and need to know up to the minute details of it prior to it coming out.

Honestly, this is getting worse than gamers talking about the next COD game.
 

gmaister22

Active member
Why? Does 1.4.4 not do what you need it to?
Or are you one of those that have to have the latest/greatest and need to know up to the minute details of it prior to it coming out.

Honestly, this is getting worse than gamers talking about the next COD game.

It's called "hype" and it's pretty normal :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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melbo

Well-known member
I think we assume that each release will be better than the last, thus the anticipation.
1.4.4 does fine for me but 2.0 will likely solve problems that I didn't realize I had...
 

Neutral Singh

Well-known member
I hope XF2 does not tinker with prevalent forum/thread url structure... like historically happened with the another forum script... :eek:
 

Davyc

Well-known member
Why? Does 1.4.4 not do what you need it to?

Actually no it doesn't - at least not out of the box; hence the fact that I have to use add-on's. If it were not for the availability of those add-on's I would use another forum software.

One of the most important features that I need is CMS - an add-on (Showcase) does that for me, but even then I have had to get into the guts of it and make several changes to 'make it fit'. That has taken some time to accomplish which has take time away from my actually inputting content - the end result is that my site is still not live. There is another 'suite' that I am trialing, but it falls short of my expectations at this present time.

As regards XF2, why announce it and then say nothing for 6 months? That's just crazy.
 

Davyc

Well-known member
I hope XF2 does not tinker with prevalent forum/thread url structure... like historically happened with the another forum script..

This is the precise reason why we need to know a little more of what is being planned. There are two possible outcomes from not telling your customers what is in store for them in a future release: a) everyone is going to be pleasantly surprised and happy, or b) there is going to be huge revolt and possible mass exodus. We've already seen this happen and it's also happening right now with another competitor.

Keeping your clientele informed is a no-brainer. I think XF is a brilliant piece of kit, with some very talented developers (which is why I support it and use it) but damn it's sometimes hard work trying to crowbar some information out that will whet the appetite for future days. You can't afford to tread water for long in this full-speed-ahead world, otherwise pretty soon you will look like you're standing still.
 

gmaister22

Active member
I have to agree.

Why the heck announce something and then don't say anything about it, nothing at all. Give us something, plans, progress, what to expect...something....
 

Tracy Perry

Well-known member
Actually no it doesn't - at least not out of the box; hence the fact that I have to use add-on's. If it were not for the availability of those add-on's I would use another forum software.
And that differs from other packages how? I've never ran one yet that does everything I needed it to built in.

One of the most important features that I need is CMS - an add-on (Showcase) does that for me, but even then I have had to get into the guts of it and make several changes to 'make it fit'. That has taken some time to accomplish which has take time away from my actually inputting content - the end result is that my site is still not live. There is another 'suite' that I am trialing, but it falls short of my expectations at this present time.
And AMS would fit better when it's released. Again, CMS is NOT a required aspect of the script by MOST people. It's requested by a vocal minority.
Would it be nice... probably.
Is it a necessity... doubtful.
As regards XF2, why announce it and then say nothing for 6 months? That's just crazy.
Just to cut the "When are you going to start working on XenForo 2" questions out?
 

Russ

Well-known member
I think @Mike said it best:

No questions about how 2.0 will work or "what" it will be can (or will) be answered at this point.

This post simply notes that our next step and focus (after 1.4) will be 2.0. It's a heads up and people can take from it what information they need (particularly for people working on projects related to XF).

Beyond that, when there's more information to be released, it will be released.

While we all would love to know what 2.0 is all about if there's nothing to say yet there's nothing to say. They aren't going to start accepting pre-orders tomorrow for 2.0 for which we know nothing of. If it's anything like the past when it's ready... I'm sure we'll start to see HYS's, followed by maybe a separate 2.0 demo board, followed by XF.com getting upgraded to 2.0 and while all these steps are happening I'm sure they'll listen to feedback and adapt as they see best fit.

So far XenForo has been excellent, there's been a few times on here where a decision just didn't make sense but with feedback they changed it. I remember when the RM came out initially it had an entirely different concept if I remember and with some great feedback they quickly changed it(radically too if I remember). Have faith :D
 

mistypants

Well-known member
Had XF2.0 not been announced in advance, I'm sure dozens of people would be posting asking where the new HYS threads are, when the next version is coming, etc. It makes complete sense to announce the project well before its release, even well before you're prepared to share any details on it.
 

Davyc

Well-known member
And that differs from other packages how? I've never ran one yet that does everything I needed it to built in.

I didn't say it differed from other packages. You asked the question if 1.4.4 did not do what I needed it to do and I answered that it did not - I simply mentioned that I was trialing another package (suite) but it did not meet my expectations; there was no direct comparison.

And AMS would fit better when it's released. Again, CMS is NOT a required aspect of the script by MOST people. It's requested by a vocal minority.

In your opinion - that doesn't happen to coalesce with mine. I know about the existence of AMS, being a Showcase user that's a given, and I'm looking forward to seeing what it presents.

Just to cut the "When are you going to start working on XenForo 2" questions out?

If they hadn't said anything six months ago we wouldn't be having this conversation now. Why say something if you're not going to follow up on it? If there were no plans for XF2 to be released (or even started) keep schtum and then discussions like this wouldn't emerge. XF are not the only one's guilty of this.

No questions about how 2.0 will work or "what" it will be can (or will) be answered at this point.

This post simply notes that our next step and focus (after 1.4) will be 2.0. It's a heads up and people can take from it what information they need (particularly for people working on projects related to XF).

Beyond that, when there's more information to be released, it will be released.

Without wishing to degrade the discussion in any way by appearing to be disrespectful - that's just blowing smoke.
 

Martok

Well-known member
If they hadn't said anything six months ago we wouldn't be having this conversation now. Why say something if you're not going to follow up on it? If there were no plans for XF2 to be released (or even started) keep schtum and then discussions like this wouldn't emerge. XF are not the only one's guilty of this.
You clearly have no concept about how long it takes to rewrite forum software like XenForo. That's what XenForo 2.0 will be, a complete re-write. It doesn't happen overnight, it takes months and months. You're being very unrealistic in expecting announcements during the last few months on the release of XenForo 2.0.
 

NixFifty

XenForo developer
Staff member
Why is it needed? To join vB and IPS in their pain?
(Years of development and still not ready)
To be fair, we don't know what it'll be. But why it is needed is clearly outlined in the first post of this thread. They have learned new ways of doing things and come up with new ideas for the product. However, to incorporate all of this and to fully realise their vision, they need to make significant changes to XenForo.

Really not that hard to grasp so I'm not sure why there's such a big fuss in this thread. Development of software, especially of this magnitude, takes considerable time and effort. Constantly badgering for more information is likely not going you anywhere.
 
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