WARNING - Don't get burnt by Waindigo

Status
Not open for further replies.
So do you plan on completing the original agreed upon product, with all the features asked for (exact copy of the original add-on), with the original agreed upon and paid for price, and without demanding more money?

Cause if not. You're in the wrong.
Is that the original add-on that is on his site at the moment, or the original add-on included in the vb file. And what about the fact the XenForo is not VB (hence it would never by an exact copy)? We are not at this point because the requirements were clear and unambiguous.

I take my share of the blame for not clarifying them.
 
Is that the original add-on that is on his site at the moment, or the original add-on included in the vb file. And what about the fact the XenForo is not VB (hence it would never by an exact copy)? We are not at this point because the requirements were clear and unambiguous.

I take my share of the blame for not clarifying them.
Exact meaning all features which the original vBulletin add-on offered, but made for XenForo. Clearly this was what was requested and paid for.

You also do not have the right to change an agreement after it has been agreed upon with payment.

This should be a learning experience for you. You should be as up front as possible before taking a job and befor accepting payment.
 
(screen shot taken of that)
...That was an unnecessary statement :cautious:

And shall I remind some of you if some private developers weren't there now (I mean with the trial problem) this forum wouldn't be as active as it is today.

Waindigo commits some mistakes but if I remember what I read some others did it too. Waindigo apologized and seems to want to find a solution.

No need to burn him alive (n)
 
Screen shot showing clearly the fields that are displayed is in the manual (pdf):
3.webp

What was provided:
1.webp

Yet you said in your conversation:
"However, I am basing my estimate on your description above and the PDF that I have read"

If the pdf manual was read, the fields that are displayed in the screenshot is included in the price because that is what is in the requirements
 
The job was quoted in estimated hours, right from the start.
Where do you say the agreement was changed ?
Nevermind anyway.

Let's write this off as lessons learned by both parties.
He said in the communication:

'I was hoping you didn't want those features'....to me that says he made an agreement and left out the fact that he didn't plan on implementing the addon into xf as a 1:1 refactoring of the code.


As far as writing this off...easy to say when it is not your money or time. It is not a solution.
 
...That was an unnecessary statement :cautious:

And shall I remind some of you if some private developers weren't there now (I mean with the trial problem) this forum wouldn't be as active as it is today.

Waindigo commits some mistakes but if I remember what I read some others did it too. Waindigo apologized and seems to want to find a solution.

No need to burn him alive (n)
We can agree to disagree.

I'm actually waiting for the trail to be over so that more qualified and professional developers join onto XenForo. I know of 4 here so far and odds are high that my list would not match your list.
 
I was a bit surprised to find this thread as this is a different to my experience of Waindigo.
I have carefully read ibaker's post and the attached record of conversations. This is what I found.

The roots of the problems lie in the early communication, before work began or in the first stage.

A major disagreement is whether the job was estimated or quoted.
ibaker says in his post that it was quoted, that is, Waindigo gave a fixed price.
But in the text file Waindigo says:
this should be something that I can do in around 4-5 hours. My hourly rate is £40 per hour, although I do offer a 10% discount for anything paid in advance.
As discussed, the cost will be £180, which is a prepayment for 5 hours work, but also covers you if the actual number of hours is different by 10% (so it's actually a prepayment for up to 5 1/2 hours).
Waindigo only states that the work “should be” possible in 4-5 hours. In the second statement he speaks clearly of a prepayment for 5 hours work.
This is therefore an estimate not a fixed quote.

It would have been better to have used the term "estimate" but to anyone at all used to business, which ibaker clearly is, this is obviously an estimate, and an offer of 5 hours work which "should be" enough.

ibaker in his post is very contemptuous of the first draft done.
However that is not his reaction in the log.
So, there is some more work to do to get it the same as the vb version that I gave you but a great start thus far...well done Mate!

The Paypal issue is a tricky one. Some coders I know on this site do ask for personal payment to protect against unfair cancellation. It;s up to the client whether they choose to accept the recommendation or not.
IMPORTANT From the log ibaker accepted the method of payment so has no position to complain of it later.

MORE IMPORTANT any complaint to Paypal by ibaker or anyone else would bring serious trouble for ibaker. (His Paypal address is now public.)
Waindigo can be seen as at fault together with others like him, for suggesting this method on record.
But the person who commits fraud is the person who makes the payment in this way - the client.

Waindigo says in his terms (text file)
You agree to accept any design decisions that I make, provided they meet your requirements.
This later caused immense trouble. The way it is stated here is unclear as it sounds like the client gets it looking the way they want it, only the coding is different on backend.
But Waindigo means more: he is trying to protect his integrity as a designer. A difficult area that needs to be clearer at the outset.

Waindigo is not happy about the quantity of features and comments that ibaker's request to use the new google API will add to costs.
I was hoping you weren't so bothered about some of those things. It is likely that the project is going to overrun the initial estimate slightly, mainly due to unexpectedly having to upgrade the Google API. I won't be charging you for the entire time I've spent having to learn this though.
There was then a misunderstanding because Waindigo said he would not charge for the extra time it would need to learn this new system. ibaker thought he said he WOULD charge for this time. Waindigo confirmed what he had originally said - that he was NOT charging for it, but damage was done.

Waindigo refers to distributing the addon himself (ownership)
At a later date, I may replace these parts in order that I can release the add-on publicly, but right now I have no plans to do so (unless you wish to pay for this also).
This is a definite statement of ownership. ibaker appears to accept this as he does not object.
However this seems to be an area which had NOT been clearly stated and understood by both sides at the start. A coder shuld always state this issue clearly AND a client should always ask and check it, if it is not stated. Neither side weer clear enough about this and it caused bad feeling later.

Later on there is argument based on the misunderstanding on a Waindigo estimate or quote. ibaker wants the job done within the original estimate. Waindigo says it can't be done "mainly because of the google API" and willl not continue without more payment.

Both get puffed up and boast of professional status, long years of experience etc. It goes downhill badly.
 
He said in the communication:

'I was hoping you didn't want those features'....to me that says he made an agreement and left out the fact that he didn't plan on implementing the addon into xf as a 1:1 refactoring of the code.


As far as writing this off...easy to say when it is not your money or time. It is not a solution.
^^ THIS
 
I did the exact same thing as I have done here with another developer of a mod that I got a vb developer to create and then needed it to be done for XF. It was done by an XF developer to the exact price given and exactly as per the specs, even field name to field name as the vb mod. I then released it here for everyone to use it for free:
http://xenforo.com/community/resources/news-reader.417/

The News Reader was a vb mod that I paid a developer to create. It was created without any issues. I then paid an XF developer to convert it, again it was done without any issues.
 
We can agree to disagree.

I'm actually waiting for the trail to be over so that more qualified and professional developers join onto XenForo.

That's very sweet words for developers, even 'small ones' like me who are doing the best they can to support XenForo now.
Nothing more to add except that I'm very surprised by your reaction after the problems you had a few weeks ago.
 
That's very sweet words for developers, even 'small ones' like me who are doing the best they can to support XenForo now.
Nothing more to add except that I'm very surprised by your reaction after the problems you had a few weeks ago.
It depends on how you see it.

profiteer
Free
Small jobs
Coder


XenForo has a lot of free and small job developers. Coder is someone who could release their own forum software. But who also has demonstrated friendly communication and easy to work with.

For the record. I would not fall under the "coder" group. I'd count myself under the "small job" group.

But don't take my words out of context. I'm thankful for everyone who is here. I just personally am and continue to be hesitant to seek employing people here.
 
I'm not an advanced developer but from personal experience of reporting bugs to Waindigo on his free add-ons he has promptly fixed and addressed the issue. I've never had it break my site to pieces except once... and it was fixed pretty fast :) He even offered to personally fix it.

I see this as bad rep for Waindigo and I side quite a bit with ibaker about being ripped off. I hope everything works out because we lack developers who actually put stuff out. Waindigo puts stuff out and I'm reluctant to recommend a combination of his modifications to create something people need.

I know how some people feel about his scripts but I've never had an issue yet or at least one that I see. Again I've always been able to get him to fix it fairly quick! In my experience he is reasonable and I hope that this fixes itself and doesn't affect his future releases and developments.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom