The future of forums (vs social media)

What folks can't seem to realize - FB/Twitter has ONE platform to integrate the app into... Forums have varieties of "features" and any app is going to miss a bunch of them.. Luckily I don't really care to pursue that group.

Why do forums and social media apps have to be exclusive of each other? Because one is getting a raw deal. I think (one) reason admins suffer this is because they're not making it work for them, they are working for it (build followers, likes, etc. all on external sites with superior sticking power).

This is why push alerts are important (to make people stick/come back), and social sharing is being added in the next version of our apps:

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If admins could make social media work for them instead of the other way around, I think their opinion of it would change, and I'm gathering data on this.
 
New
I didn't know that . and still cant find the link to recent posts .. ( I mean where in the navbar?)
I agree this is not very intuitive.

I renamed new posts to unread, and put recent posts in then navigation (how did spellcheck change that to abbot?!) as many people prefer to use it and do get confused about new posts
 
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Why do forums and social media apps have to be exclusive of each other? Because one is getting a raw deal. I think (one) reason admins suffer this is because they're not making it work for them, they are working for it (build followers, likes, etc. all on external sites with superior sticking power).

This is why push alerts are important (to make people stick/come back), and social sharing is being added in the next version of our apps:

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If admins could make social media work for them instead of the other way around, I think their opinion of it would change, and I'm gathering data on this.

Social Share is not a major need imo , the need on Mobile Applications for forums is Easy Sharing.

Facebook and Other Social Media platforms are winning because they offer easy way to share pictures. They can take a pic and with one click on Picture page , they can upload this to Desired Social Platform.

If what you are offering is this , then you have a winner , if it is built in share options for the pap itself , it is not going to do much change.
 
I find it humorous how many of you are really missing the bus...It's not a Facebook thing or Social Media thing. Its the platform, it's the mobile aspect of it all. People don't have time to wine and dine at fancy restaurants, they want fast and easy food, drive thru and so on. They have jobs and kids and in between all the daily riff - raft they pop open their app on their cell and send a quick picture or status to friends and family. Its mobile! Its fast and easy. If Facebook created a file system where pertinent information can be kept and searched, that then will be the end of forums. As I have said once before and will keep saying it, until a forum software comes up with a true answer to mobile, it will never get better and may someday fail all together...
 
Hmmmm.. wonder what the income difference is between FaceBook and XenForo. :whistle:
I'm SURE that that difference has nothing to do with the "platform provider" specific app for it.

I'd love to see them do an app for XenForo for free... then have the script side interface as an add-on to XenForo. But wonder what the add-on price would have to be priced at to make it profitable - and then how many would really want it at that price.
You would STILL lose features compared to the web version of the site - so it would be limited.
 
I don't use "mobile devices". Since their inception they have been gaining ground on beating cancer as the leading cause of premature death. It has become a habitual drug to many who put their life and the life of others at risk while using them. People who use them become addicted and loose all sense of situational awareness.
Sadly thousands of innocent victims are injured or killed each year because of distracted drivers using their mobile device. One of the most popular apps out there now is one that allows you to take a selfie and record your speed at the same time. Snapchat. Makes a history of people at their most stupidest moment in life as they crash into people and objects at ridiculous speeds. "Wow I was going really fast eh? But my recovery from injuries won't be as fast." "Look at the great selfie I made that used to be my face."
An app should be made that flashes in red and orange when the device is turned on.
Warning - use of this device could cause serious injury or death.
Use your desk top at home it's safer.
 
You would STILL lose features compared to the web version of the site - so it would be limited.

You lose a few features but now your users can communicate on your site from anywhere in the world in the most easy way possible.

You could strip down almost all of the features and it's still a win/win situation for you when some random person has super easy access.
 
Social networks are content agnostic and in the case of Facebook for example, closely linked with friends and family.
Yes there are pages and groups which are related to a specific subject, but they are incidental and supplementary to the main purpose of the site.

Forums for the most part are focussed on a specific subject, and the forum you are a member of may not be one that your friends or family are interested in.
Indeed, it's highly likely that all of your friends and family have their own favourite subjects and therefore forums (if they participate in them).

They serve very different audiences and purposes.

For general chit chat amongst friends, posting memes, stupid jokes, throwaway comments, etc., Facebook et al are great.

For discussing a specific subject in depth, having rich content, tabulated data, custom developed apps and functions, etc. and being able to refer back to a post you made a year ago, or even a month ago, and kick-starting the discussion again, forums have Facebook beat every time.

My opinion is, this is a very perceptive statement. It tells me the people at Xenforo think a lot about the product they put out there for the rest of us. I imagine at many a Thursday or Friday night beer session after work, there is much talk about the features and ideas and where the forum and yes, the Snapchat, Reddit and Instagram and Twitter and Facebook communities etc. etc. etc are all going.

My two cents aren't worth much, especially as a new user. Here are a few of my thoughts so far for Xenforo:

1) For Xenforo, stick to your knitting. Five years ago we went with Joomla as a CMS, because Wordpress had few features. After 18 months gave it up as just too geeky. Wordpress was nothing then. Now we are back on Wordpress, happy with it, and still learning features. Xenforo shouldn't even be considering any kind of front-end CMS until they have spent every last waking minute making Xenforo the best it can be.

2) We are still learning Xenforo. Absolutely, I am so impressed with the thought that has gone into this product, I cannot say enough good things. These days, when I have an issue, I think to myself, when I can't find a function, "What would be the logical place to put something?" And there it is! And the things I need to find down the road, I hope they will be where I would put them!

3) I just integrated log ins using Facebook and Twitter. It wasn't easy. The Xenforo information starts out with good links and info, and falls apart after that, mainly because the stuff at the two big sites seems to have changed. Funny thing, getting help at Facebook and Twitter is worse. And if you want to really lose your mind these days, try setting up Google Analytics and Adsense with multiple domains and users. In our shop, we call this deliberate or accidental mis-guiding, incomplete, sloppy workmanship "job security." I guess mechanics, fishermen and these days, software coders, to name only a few, never give away all their secrets. That makes life miserable for the rest of us, and so many just give up. So far, Xenforo has been one of the easiest programs I have ever found to set up and manage. But, I am still a beginner. Hopefully they will always stay a couple steps ahead of me.

4) Now, that said, twenty years ago I had to make some difficult hardware decisions between Cisco and some of the other hardware suppliers of the day. I love easy to use. But I have to say, I ended up buying Cisco because I was so impressed with the depth of engineering that went into the their products. Their nearest competition might have ten ways to control a certain aspect of their box. Cisco would literally have 500. Incredible engineering. But key here is, only if you wanted it.

5) As Brogan says, there is a difference between friendly news between friends and relatives, news that interests only a certain segment of the population, and the real news of the day. The fact that people have not figured what is happening here, including myself, is why Facebook is valued at $215 billion, when I suspect it really is not worth a tenth that. Why are car mags and car sites everywhere , as just one example. What is their success rate? If you run a website hoping to earn, you are a publisher, real or cyber. If you think you need Facebook or Google as a partner, then be happy giving them more than half, or even 90 per cent, of the sales your site generates. Otherwise, join the other publishers trying to figure out what they are doing wrong. They don't know, and so far, neither do any of the rest of us.

6) Conclusion: All of us making suggestions, and the continued hard work at Xenforo, I hope is paying off for everybody. Keep making Xenforo simple to use. Only complicated for those who want the depth of control. So sure, keep making the program deeper, but not necessary for newbies to have to figure all that out. Keep adding features. Keep making outside add-ons easier to use. You folks are doing a great job. Not much more I can say.
 
I noticed that some say, "Well you can get more info on a forum."

Thats not entirely true anymore. I can post the same videos, pictures, and content on Facebook/Reddit and it costs me nothing and guarantees easier access to customers. There may be no ad revenue, but there is also no overhead. Plus advertising is much easier.

Some mention the search feature on Facebook. But forum search features aren't all that fantastic either. You might have to still work through a few pages before you even find what you're looking for.

Social media isn't going anywhere. And I know I've seen a noticeable decline in forum activity across most all forums I ever visit. IPB, VB, Xenforo. It hasn't mattered or mattered on the topic. Some that used to be frequently busy are starting to become wastelands and/or are less busy than they used to be. Yet Facebook and Reddit activity have picked up on those same topics.

Most people never actually do anything to their profiles.

Most people get turned off by all of the various bells and whistles a forum offers. It might be fun for the people running the forum, but many users want it simple and to the point. They shouldn't need a 500 page manual on how to edit, change, adjust, and use things.

Long story short...only forum software and forum owners that adapt to the changing environment will survive. They will need to offer stuff not offered anywhere else, including social media, and make it worth the while to join and use. Let alone easy, fun, and engaging to use and maintain. Just just for themselves, but the customers as well.

I can sit here as an owner and go on and on about how awesome the software is. But most customers don't care about the background aspects of it all. And they don't care about the million things you can do with it. They just want to be able to jump in and use it. No fuss. No mess. That is part of why social media has taken off.

Those engineering the forum software (here and elsewhere) need to step back and look at things not as a programmer but as a simple minded customer that is looking at that forum for the first time.

Why should I make a profile? What does it actually accomplish? There are a million types of settings. Which are important and which aren't? Is the forum mobile ready? Can I take pics and quickly upload them without creating a new thread, post, etc? Can I quickly and easily update my status without sifting through a bunch of stuff? Can I make a new thread or post on the go without it being a 5 step process? How do I adjust settings...and how can I do so on the go or on the forum without having to try and understand where a settings I'm looking for is?

The list goes on. I think as a forum community...here and elsewhere....customers and developers....its time to take some steps back and look at the bigger picture and if forum software is heading the right direction or just heading on the path to overall irrelevance for most people.
 
What if you look at it from a young person's perspective.

They buy whatever phone, it has an app for everything so their "Google" is their app store of their phone.

They use the big five because everybody does (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, WhatsApp). That's communications and picture sharing sorted.

Then they use a fleet of other apps to manipulate images before uploading.

But there is something lacking, it is the creation of content, but not the consumption. It's all about posting as fast as possible for the most attention.

Forums have been far more social since always. Usenet. Where it was about reaching out to people to find information. Not consume it like a couch potato in an algorithmic feed mashed up.

But here in lies the problem. My forum, and your forum and everybody else's forum is amazing but they will never be the centre spot of attention.

Many many websites exist because of Facebook, not because of Google. Google doesn't do viral traffic. If you ever nosey on flippa and look at the sites that focus on Facebook their stats are insane. They spike and unless they can find another viral thing their traffic falls off to nothing.

I'm turned off by Facebook, I love my friends but the crap they share sometimes goes back to those stupid chain mail letters (god have not had one of those in ages!!!), I enjoy geeking out on xenforo or my own. Reading content, the big discussions, heck even educated flame wars are entertaining.

It is a tough market out there, and the people who want to run good forums are dying out because the younger generation doesn't have an app for website management!
 
I find it humorous how many of you are really missing the bus...It's not a Facebook thing or Social Media thing. Its the platform, it's the mobile aspect of it all. People don't have time to wine and dine at fancy restaurants, they want fast and easy food, drive thru and so on. They have jobs and kids and in between all the daily riff - raft they pop open their app on their cell and send a quick picture or status to friends and family. Its mobile! Its fast and easy. If Facebook created a file system where pertinent information can be kept and searched, that then will be the end of forums. As I have said once before and will keep saying it, until a forum software comes up with a true answer to mobile, it will never get better and may someday fail all together...

So if I need a custom crankshaft for my 1963 Corvette I should pull out my phone and speak into it?

Or, if I need to take apart my Macbook with its 34 screws of 6 different types, I can do that between picking up the kids at soccer?

I'm trying to illustrate that forums are different - for differing content!

We've had this exact discussion over the last 7 or 8 years - and the only thing that has really changed is that Facebook has become much more relevant as a way to advertise and introduce people to a particular forum. Sure, there are a whole subset of newer internet users who don't even know about forums - I get that.

Forums are about content - unique and "deep" content. Curated content.

Facebook will certainly replace forums as a place for hit and run. AND, those above who suggest forum owners are often lazy (or clueless) these days may have a point. That is, creating a successful forum requires a vision, passion (interest), hard work and many many years. It took me 18 years to build up hearth.com to 3+ million page views a month. My newer site is mostly blog and some forum - and the forum is not very successful because I am burnt out on being "the guy" who is there full time and making everything happen.

But I have no doubt that if I put the same effort into it as I did with the old site it would flower.
 
So if I need a custom crankshaft for my 1963 Corvette I should pull out my phone and speak into it?
No sir...it would be much easier just pulling out the old Iphone- clicking the app button for your forum of choice, typing in the mobile friendly search bar "custom crankshaft for my 1963 Corvette." and BOOM! There it is! and you didn't even leave the site of your Vette that you may be working on or polishing up in the garage.

Or
, you could walk your butt in (pending how far your garage is from the good ol desktop) my 71 Nova sits 100 feet back in my garage, oily hands and dirty boots, tramp thru the kitchen and dining room, fire up the ol desktop, type in the url - FINALLY get to the info you need.

Nah! mobile man, I'm working on the car out in the garage thinking about a part I need or ask a question on my favorite Nova forum, right in the palm of my oily hands sitting comfortably in my garage. You see, mobile or not the info is still there, just much easier in the world of mobile and fast paced life most of us live in. To each there own brother.
 
Or, you could walk your butt in (pending how far your garage is from the good ol desktop) my 71 Nova sits 100 feet back in my garage, oily hands and dirty boots, tramp thru the kitchen and dining room, fire up the ol desktop, type in the url - FINALLY get to the info you need.
Last time I looked my iPhone and my iPads allowed me to perform the same function via google or a particular site using either Safari or Chrome. :whistle:

Nah! mobile man, I'm working on the car out in the garage thinking about a part I need or ask a question on my favorite Nova forum, right in the palm of my oily hands sitting comfortably in my garage. You see, mobile or not the info is still there, just much easier in the world of mobile and fast paced life most of us live in. To each there own brother.
So, you'd want 20 bajillion apps for all the different sites huh? Makes more sense to me to have one app (a browser) that allows me access to multiple sites - but that's just me.
 
So if I need a custom crankshaft for my 1963 Corvette I should pull out my phone and speak into it?

Or, if I need to take apart my Macbook with its 34 screws of 6 different types, I can do that between picking up the kids at soccer?

I'm trying to illustrate that forums are different - for differing content!

We've had this exact discussion over the last 7 or 8 years - and the only thing that has really changed is that Facebook has become much more relevant as a way to advertise and introduce people to a particular forum. Sure, there are a whole subset of newer internet users who don't even know about forums - I get that.

Forums are about content - unique and "deep" content. Curated content.

Facebook will certainly replace forums as a place for hit and run. AND, those above who suggest forum owners are often lazy (or clueless) these days may have a point. That is, creating a successful forum requires a vision, passion (interest), hard work and many many years. It took me 18 years to build up hearth.com to 3+ million page views a month. My newer site is mostly blog and some forum - and the forum is not very successful because I am burnt out on being "the guy" who is there full time and making everything happen.

But I have no doubt that if I put the same effort into it as I did with the old site it would flower.

I put into bold probably one of the biggest things I see on forums. And also generally one of the biggest problems. And that is trying to keep the member engaged. Trying to get them to post new threads, posts, and content rather than relying on everyone else to do it, let alone do it first.

Therein lies a continual problem. How to get and keep members engaged and not relying on others, let alone staff, to do it for them. Which is funny. Because you'll see a member continually posting random crap on their FB wall....but rarely on your forum. Including stuff that would be great to have posted on your forum. And when asked, they have a million excuses. Frustrating.

But I think it does come back to user engagement. It's easier for Facebook members to find groups they like and to actively be a part of. Have a pic you want to share on that group its as simply as opening up that page and uploading. Boom...done. No topic or post requirements. Nothing. Then people can discuss that pic openly.

Forum software may not go extinct but it certainly will start to have less purpose unless forum developers become aware of the social media trends and what are causing them and think long term rather than short term when developing it.


Last time I looked my iPhone and my iPads allowed me to perform the same function via google or a particular site using either Safari or Chrome. :whistle:


So, you'd want 20 bajillion apps for all the different sites huh? Makes more sense to me to have one app (a browser) that allows me access to multiple sites - but that's just me.

I think one app that curates forums by content type, would be a good start. It would work like Google but for forums. So if you type in 'paranormal bigfoot' you would get forum only results that deal with that topic.

I'm sure there are ways of doing it. But curating content as forum only would be a start.
 
For general chit chat amongst friends, posting memes, stupid jokes, throwaway comments, etc., Facebook et al are great.

For discussing a specific subject in depth, having rich content, tabulated data, custom developed apps and functions, etc. and being able to refer back to a post you made a year ago, or even a month ago, and kick-starting the discussion again, forums have Facebook beat every time.

Right.
 
creating a successful forum requires a vision, passion (interest), hard work and many many years.

Right.

I am burnt out on being "the guy" who is there full time and making everything happen

Yup. You have to be part masochist to be a forum owner/admin. In the days when you could actually make decent money on adsense, it made a bit of sense. Today?
 
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It's all about the Google. Until Facebook and Twitter learn how to engage search engines, there will always be a niche for forums. Our biggest challenge is to leverage that one HUGE advantage to our benefit. No one facebooks a location. No one researches gear to buy anywhere but on Google... and forums. Frankly, if you want to give up because of the full frontal push by facebook for our users and potential users, then we don't need you. We need sharp aggressive, think outside the facebook people to give forums the tools we need to grow and attract others. My short list?
  • Review system for products, services and gear. Like a cross between Angie's list and Trip Advisor.
  • Being able to geotag sites and populate a map. For me, it would be dive ops and dive sites.
  • Easier uploading of pictures straight from phones.
  • Being able to @ tag emails of others without the emails being seen by the world.
  • Anything else that would allow us to leverage Google to our benefit. You've got to think outside the facebook. Way outside the facebook.
 
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I'm lucky enough facebook isn't even in my list of competitors as you'd be banned there for the subjects we cover. The niche I have is pretty nichey. My users like to have a 'alter ego' which you won't find on facebook I think it's a very "forum" thing, we have the advantage there. You can't be someone else on facebook like you can on a forum. I think it's almost 10 years now we've been up, we are in the top 20,000 websites I consider this pretty good for one guy and one cheap server. I see facebook bundle their app on basically any smartphone I've ever owned so there's a foot in the door none of you will ever have (as in, free traffic) but I'm not really interested in their brand of bundled spyware on the other hand so I don't have an account with them, period. If I owned some website where users popped by and shared their shower thoughts, posted their ham sammich and tried to convince me to vote trump I'd be out of business by now but luckily I'm not trying to keep up with the ADHD joneses. My condolences to those who are.
 
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