Sheldon
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Based on what? This thread?
Text Editor: Blueish smaller icons
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Based on what? This thread?
No, based on color consistency. People like it when things are consistent.
As people have mentioned in this thread, TinyMCE's default style wasn't THAT bad compared to redactor. And no, TinyMCE was not consistent with xenforo's default style.
Shelley
Well-known member
That's not strictly true. A poll however would give a better indicator what the majority like better imo.
Shelley
Well-known member
Yeah probably. I know in the past (i hold my hands up) I have been very vocal in my suggestions so it seems like 10 people are requesting. I dunno, I think the editor looks great and i'll be styling it to my preference regardless because you guys made it easy for us to style it. To me it's a good neutral colour s I really have no grumbles with it whatsoever.
I'm looking at it as (it can be styled easily) would have been different imo if it was difficult to style but it's not by the amount of mockups people have posted so that in itself says it's easy to style.
That would not stop the complaining.
Shelley
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Nobody is complaining. If your referring to the members that want a blue editor they are simply making their preference known and stand by what they feel is and looks better as much as i disagree with them. A better term would be providing feedback imo.
Morgain
Well-known member
@Luxus thank you that is perfect for the default XF design.
Have you sent Mike the details to make it easier for him to slip them in? I see you corrected the mistake with the clashing gradients as well.
It makes no sense to brush off the complaints about this by saying it can be customised. That isn't the point although the easier customisability is very welcome and I for one will enjoy it on my own sites.
The point is the DEFAULT DESIGN.
The point is the current editor doesn't match the default design.
Where else in the default design do we see grey bars? Nowhere. Bars are pale blue or peach.
It has been repeated several times that the old editor was also greyish. That is irrelevant - a bit like saying the old XF did not show Conversation recipients so why bother doing so now? XF 1.2 is supposed to be better not just copy the defects of the old version.
It is irrelevant that quite a few have said - including Brogan - that they don't mind what colour the editor is because they'll customise it. But the majority of users on HERE are not visiting THOSE sites. The point is about the default design, on here, or elsewhere.
I would also suggest that it is not important that some have said they actually LIKE the greyish design - with its clashing gradients. The change requested is not for something new and different and strange. It's for a pale blue that follows XF default design.
Those who have said they love the grey + clashing gradients, have not expressed strong objections to the colour of the breadcrumbs and Likes bar, so it can be taken they will find that colour acceptable. As for holding out to keep the clashing gradients, no comment!
It is, finally important that the XF default design is kept consistent and pleasant.
The current editor is in the opinion of quite a few commentators, not consistent and pleasant. I observed lots of these comments popping up spontaneously on different threads, not just +1 / Likes/ or me too comments though there was plenty of that.
The default design has to serve a large, active and supportive community.
It demonstrates the XF attitude - which has never before treated the default design as unimportant because it can be restyled.
XF design has always offered something that the majority of users can if they wish use as default. It has never pressured people to HAVE to restyle, restyling is very much optional.
I have seen it stated by the moderators here that the majority of XF Clients do in in in fact use the default, or something very close to it.
The level of reaction has been such that in the XF tradition I'd have expected a courteous and active response by now. Not just like it or lump it. Something has changed around XF and not for the better.
Yeah, sometimes it's hard to tell whether people complain or just make polite suggestions. Although I wouldn't say that nobody complained. There is even a dedicated thread here which got closed in which at least the OP did definitely complain.
@Morgain: I think Mike knows XenForo better than anyone else. If he wants he could style the editor in an instant to look like my suggestion.
Sheldon
Well-known member
Mike has already replied about this subject.
http://xenforo.com/community/threads/very-very-very-bad-editor-design.51813/page-12#post-555694
Morgain
Well-known member
I think when the number of "polite suggestions" is quite high, and they pop up in several different places, not just one thread as support posts, then it starts to verge on complaint. Gently and implicitly, because this is by and large a polite community, but it does.
I meant no disrespect to Mike but he's carrying 1.2 on his own while Kier does his relocation so the poor guy has an awful lot to handle. Even very small helps can be very welcome when you're overloaded as I well know.
Mike is not primarily a designer, he's a heavyweight function developer. I think he probably doesn't rate the "icing on the cake" of design as highly as some of us do. So Mike please please, I get it that this seems frivolous to you but please please just indulge us as your clients. This DOES matter to us.
Shelley
Well-known member
@Luxus thank you that is perfect for the default XF design.
Have you sent Mike the details to make it easier for him to slip them in? I see you corrected the mistake with the clashing gradients as well.
It makes no sense to brush off the complaints about this by saying it can be customised. That isn't the point although the easier customisability is very welcome and I for one will enjoy it on my own sites.
The point is the DEFAULT DESIGN.
The point is the current editor doesn't match the default design.
Where else in the default design do we see grey bars? Nowhere. Bars are pale blue or peach.
It has been repeated several times that the old editor was also greyish. That is irrelevant - a bit like saying the old XF did not show Conversation recipients so why bother doing so now? XF 1.2 is supposed to be better not just copy the defects of the old version.
It is irrelevant that quite a few have said - including Brogan - that they don't mind what colour the editor is because they'll customise it. But the majority of users on HERE are not visiting THOSE sites. The point is about the default design, on here, or elsewhere.
I would also suggest that it is not important that some have said they actually LIKE the greyish design - with its clashing gradients. The change requested is not for something new and different and strange. It's for a pale blue that follows XF default design.
Those who have said they love the grey + clashing gradients, have not expressed strong objections to the colour of the breadcrumbs and Likes bar, so it can be taken they will find that colour acceptable. As for holding out to keep the clashing gradients, no comment!
It is, finally important that the XF default design is kept consistent and pleasant.
The current editor is in the opinion of quite a few commentators, not consistent and pleasant. I observed lots of these comments popping up spontaneously on different threads, not just +1 / Likes/ or me too comments though there was plenty of that.
The default design has to serve a large, active and supportive community.
It demonstrates the XF attitude - which has never before treated the default design as unimportant because it can be restyled.
XF design has always offered something that the majority of users can if they wish use as default. It has never pressured people to HAVE to restyle, restyling is very much optional.
I have seen it stated by the moderators here that the majority of XF Clients do in in in fact use the default, or something very close to it.
The level of reaction has been such that in the XF tradition I'd have expected a courteous and active response by now. Not just like it or lump it. Something has changed around XF and not for the better.
Nobody is brushing off your
The current editor does match the default design. Designers/stylers often base their styles using 3-4 colours. Why? Because it breaks out the theme in question. If you coloured and styled everything the same colour you would not have focus points and the style would destroy any purpose feature/function-x would have. Would you apply blue text on a blue background? Course not.
"the old editor was also greyish. That is irrelevant" - It's not irrelevant, it might be irrelevant to you but to have your suggestions and feedback heard you really have to read, listen and understand others who are at the opposing end.
Brogan has said he doesn't mind, true. But he's also stated that blue will not suit other peoples custom styles where the grey is neutral. I have to agree with him on this and as much as you overlook that part he did make a good point regarding this.
I won't quote on the rest you said but putting up a debate as much as you are which I think we will both agree is fair.
Dang, neutral is the word I needed to hear. If Brogan said this I missed it. Yeah, I can understand know why Mike chose grey. You are right, grey is more neutral than blue. Basically the probability of people changing a blue default editor for their custom style is bigger than the probability of people changing a grey default editor. Because it's neutral it can be used with more styles than blue. Still, that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't match xenforo's blueish-white style although it doesn't stand out that badly.
Morgain
Well-known member
It's not that few. I was actually extremely surprised at the considerable number of different comments coming up in different places objecting to the editor style - not just the same thread, different posts in many places, as soon as 1.2 appeared.
Certainly it's fewer who have hung in here and dealt with the extraordinary level of opposition through irrelevant comments like it always was grey, or it can be restyled. There are lots who will say once what they think, then if they see a minority keeping the point going sensibly and methodically they don't see the need to keep repeating what they already said.
In the same way in the main the opposition to change is coming from just you and Shelley. But as you are coming up with the key arguments, others will not see it as necessary to support you.
I covered this. Those who like the current grey + clashing gradients have not raised objections to th breadcrumbs bar or the Likes bar. So as the change requested is to use the default design already in use, without objections raised to it, it can be assumed that generally this will be acceptable.
Where? I don't know anywhere else that the XF default uses greyish bars.
Yes one does use a rare focus point colour. That generally would not be a 'disappearing colour' like grey which is a colour that attempts to merge with background, not stand out on its own as an attention getter.
Secondly I don't think good design uses unique in a default style. The colours are resued in a balanced way. Classically that would be in the triad tradition, three instances on a page. So again a single instance of one colour sticks out in an odd and jarring way. Jarring is not the same as focus point.
If this grey was to be found in at least two other important locations then your point would run.
I can't see how this applies.
Could you read what I said please. The same point was made by Luxus I think above.
Sorry to be tedious but maybe to save you reading back the point here is that 1,2 is not intended to repeat defects in 1.1.
Even if you don't think the TinyMice grey was a defect it did not set a standard as good design. I don't remember anyone ever commenting how they admired it during the 1.0 or 1.1 stages.
You're right Shelley maybe I don't get this point. I don't understand why people who have custom styles will have difficulty with one or other of the Style Property Palette colours. What does this matter to them providing it's consistent design? Since they are customising they'll be changing it anyway won't they?
So when they change that Palette colour it will replace Breadcrumbs bar. Likes bar - and Editor bar, all in one go. If they want to select out one of those elements it can be done with EXTRA.css - since we are talking about users who are customising anyway.
I've read Luxus post which just came in and I still don't get it. If your theme is black or pink or yellow or green or red or brown or purple - you're going to change the Breadcrumbs bar. Likes bar - and Editor bar alike.
If you have a blue theme but the default blue doesn't fit because you're using navy royal or aqua, you'll also change it.
If your theme is silver grey or charcoal grey the chances that THIS grey will fit it are not very high.
So for those that customise WHATEVER colour the Editor bar is, will mean changing it, except for a tiny number for whom this grey fits.
Actually Ive seen a lot of XF clone sites where a couple of other key colours like background, and category bars, are edited, but the Breadcrumbs bar. Likes bar and various other pale blue elements stay the same. It seems to be popular.
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