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My concerns about "Conversations"

Discussion in 'General XenForo Discussion and Feedback' started by Joeychgo, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Joeychgo

    Joeychgo Well-Known Member

    Being new to XF, I have noticed a number of issues with conversations that I consider problematic. These aren't just my opinions, but also based on comments from my members.

    I realize some of this can be solves with add ons, but it seems unnecessary to me to have to have add ons provide these features. I also realize that some of this

    1. "Leave Conversation"
    This has created a lot of confusion for my ex-vb members. Frankly, I don't understand why its not "delete conversation". More importantly, my members don't understand either and the confusion they have is unnecessary, IMO. They expect to delete conversations they no longer need.

    2. Ability to mass "leave" conversations
    I know it can be done by clicking the box on each message you want to delete. But a little check box at the bottom of the page with "Select All" would be nice.

    3. Clear ability to search PCs
    My members have asked about being able to search PCs for keywords.

    4. Admin ability to limit number of PCs by usergroup.
    Why this isn't in here has me befuddled. Imagine the HD space of thousands of old, image laden PCs takes up after a few years because one of the participants didn't "leave" the conversation.

    5. Admin ability to Delete a User's PCs.
    The only way I can do this is to call the member a spammer and ban him as such?

    6. Admin ability to read a member's PCs
    This has been an invaluable tool for me over the last dozen+ years as a big board admin.​

    I'm sure there is more I haven't figured out yet, but I'm hoping some of these features can be built into future version of XF.
    maszd, Puntocom and semprot like this.
  2. Jeremy

    Jeremy Well-Known Member

    SneakyDave and Amaury like this.
  3. Amaury

    Amaury Well-Known Member

    Except you're not deleting the conversation, you're leaving it. If someone replies and you choose not to ignore further replies, you'll be re-added.

    Click the Selected Conversations link at the bottom.

    KHF Edit User.PNG

    This requires an add-on.
    SneakyDave likes this.
  4. Mike

    Mike XenForo Developer Staff Member

    In terms of deleting conversations, it was actually "delete conversation" at the beginning and people also found that confusing (since they thought it deleted it from the other user as well).
    SneakyDave, otto, Liam W and 3 others like this.
  5. Joeychgo

    Joeychgo Well-Known Member

    and that only makes the problem worse. As I said about limits, Imagine the HD space of thousands of old, image laden PCs takes up after a few years because one of the participants didn't "leave" the conversation.

    Thanks for pointing that out. I never would have found it, and likely, my members wont either.

    Exactly the point. My users don't understand this either.
  6. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    There's an add-on for this. Many admins like me do not want this built into the core as we believe that personal conversations are just that - private.

    Conversations aren't stored in the same way as other forum software. There's effectively only one copy of conversation posts in the database, not multiple copies like there are in other systems. So storage is less of an issue due to this. It also explains why you leave a conversation rather than delete it.

    As a forum admin it's your role to educate your members about how the forum works, especially when changing from one forum software to another. I've done this on my site, posting Have You Seen... threads explaining the changes when we moved to XenForo and also explaining new features when they are added. It takes a little bit of effort but it pays off, members do appreciate the posts and do learn.
    SneakyDave and m3commish like this.
  7. Floyd R Turbo

    Floyd R Turbo Well-Known Member

    I believe this has to do with the way the convo is stored in the database. If you look at it, it makes sense. I had to manually rebuild part of the convo database during a conversion so I understand this. The convos are structured in such a way that there is only one message, rather than multiple messages that "belong" to each individual participant. So you can't delete a message, or else it goes away for the other participants as well. In vB, if you had 10 people in group message, you had 10 messages. Then if you sent one, you had that in your sent box, and 10 others got that in their inbox. Talk about bloat.

    If one person leaves a conversation, their participation in that conversation is removed but the messages remain for the others involved. If everyone leaves a conversation, I believe the convo actually gets deleted. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

    You can in fact do this. Go to convos. Click the check box on one message. Click the checkbox in the pop-up "Select all", then pull down and "Leave Conversations". You need to do this for each page though, but the thing is that if you do the "select all", then go to the next page, repeat, it keeps track of all the other pages you have selected all on, so you only have to do the drop-down "Leave Conversations" once. This is typical for all XF thread/post selection processes (you can select multiple pages of thread, posts, etc and perform action en mass

    I use Conversation Essentials for this, Daniel Hood. Worth it.

    I believe you can do this, maybe it's in Conversation Essentials as well though.

    You can indeed do this in ACP -> Edit User -> Actions drop down -> Delete Conversations

    Could use Log In as User. Or just look at the database directly. I believe there is an addon that allows you to do this on the front end though, I seem to recall seeing that.
  8. Chris D

    Chris D XenForo Developer Staff Member

    It's probably worth noting at this point that for things like changes to phrases and the wording of things, as much as the feedback is useful, the vehicle for change is usually a suggestion posted in the Suggestions forum (and usually one suggestion per thread). So if there isn't one already, that might be worth doing (although there is usually reasons why things are how they are).

    In the meantime, making use of the Phrases system is a really handy way of customising these things for your users to make them more clear.

    For example, if the wording of "Leave Conversation" is confusing, then you can have that changed to "Delete Conversation" (or some other phrase) in a matter of seconds.

    I was going to address some of your other points but it seems as though all of them have been answered in some way by now :)
    SneakyDave likes this.
  9. Kevin

    Kevin Well-Known Member

    Am I recalling correctly though that the conversation isn't really deleted until all participants have left it?
  10. Mike

    Mike XenForo Developer Staff Member

  11. Chris D

    Chris D XenForo Developer Staff Member

    Yes, that's why it's "Leave" rather than "Delete".

    I was just addressing the specific point raised. If it being "Delete" rather than "Leave" is easier for those users to understand, then it's not incorrect. It could be seen as "Delete Conversation [from my Inbox]".
    SneakyDave likes this.
  12. Amaury

    Amaury Well-Known Member

    By clicking an individual thread's/post's/conversation's check box, you can also select them all that way.


    And if it's still confusing, you can style the section footer link to be a different color.
  13. Kevin

    Kevin Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that was kind of the point I was making with that question. If somebody just renames "Leave Conversation" to "Delete Conversation" then it would likely be even more confusing since it isn't really deleted. Your suggestion of "Delete Conversion [from my Inbox]" or similar makes would make more sense from a user's perspective if somebody really does want to change the phrase.
  14. Chris D

    Chris D XenForo Developer Staff Member

    I agree :) The "Delete" wording was specifically suggested by Joeychgo hence my example. For the record, I agree with it being leave, and personally feel that is less confusing.
    SneakyDave likes this.
  15. Sadik B

    Sadik B Well-Known Member

    How about "Remove Me" from Conversation?
    Iversia and Floyd R Turbo like this.
  16. Aivaras

    Aivaras Active Member

    If you like "delete" better, just change the language phrase to suit your preference.
    SneakyDave likes this.
  17. Puntocom

    Puntocom Well-Known Member

    As an user, I find uncomfortable to leave all conversations without being able to clearly delete them.
  18. Chris D

    Chris D XenForo Developer Staff Member

    As a user, why does that make you feel uncomfortable?
    SneakyDave likes this.
  19. Joeychgo

    Joeychgo Well-Known Member

    Sure, I could do that. But then it will confuse people when they are brought back into the conversation...
  20. Puntocom

    Puntocom Well-Known Member

    Because I don't like to leave personal stuff in an online forum. Being able to delete conversations is also repeatedly requested by the members of my forum; they sell second hand items and it's understandable they want to delete it.

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