California Case Update

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Yorick said:
I haven't been following an awful lot of this - is the January hearing a new thing?

What happens in the meantime, does this potentially mean (aside from the obvious stress and anxiety caused by an impending trial, of course) that the pressure is off and some of the previous stress and financial burden is relieved?
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Unfortunately, no. The cost is likely only going to increase as they need to prepare for trial. I've never worked in the US system or on large commercial/IP disputes, but when I've represented clients in the courts in Scotland, the amount of work done just before the trial is much greater than anything done before (when you are mainly shuffling letters and paperwork about, and appearing for short periods of time). You need to organise and prepare all of your evidence (normally trying to agree a bundle with the other side, to simplify things as well), prepare questions for your witnesses, have all the research and precedents to support your legal arguments, understand what arguments the other side will use and what they will ask witnesses and be prepared to counter that etc. - it's an awful lot of work! You literally need to be prepared for anything - everything that's gone before then is always much more narrow, and thus preparation is much simpler. For letters that are going back and forth, you've always got plenty of time to research if needed and then respond. Not so in court for the trial!

The good thing for Kier and Ashley is that they wouldn't need to be that involved in all that, which would hopefully let them focus more on xenForo development in the interim period.

That said, I'm also slightly worried based on statements at vBulletin and activity here, that a settlement is in the works... June 12th could be an interesting day.
 
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Gene Steinberg said:
Speculation can be fun. I just wonder if, upon losing, IB can be sued for some reason.
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That would just open XF to a rehash of the current lawsuits & a continuing financial drain due the lawyers bills.

Their best response would be to kick IB's butts with good quality forum software, and they're fully capable of doing that. That, more than anything else, is why IB is trying to run them out of business now before they succeed.
 
tickedon said:
Unfortunately, no. The cost is likely only going to increase as they need to prepare for trial. I've never worked in the US system or on large commercial/IP disputes, but when I've represented clients in the courts in Scotland, the amount of work done just before the trial is much greater than anything done before (when you are mainly shuffling letters and paperwork about, and appearing for short periods of time). You need to organise and prepare all of your evidence (normally trying to agree a bundle with the other side, to simplify things as well), prepare questions for your witnesses, have all the research and precedents to support your legal arguments, understand what arguments the other side will use and what they will ask witnesses and be prepared to counter that etc. - it's an awful lot of work! You literally need to be prepared for anything - everything that's gone before then is always much more narrow, and thus preparation is much simpler. For letters that are going back and forth, you've always got plenty of time to research if needed and then respond. Not so in court for the trial!

The good thing for Kier and Ashley is that they wouldn't need to be that involved in all that, which would hopefully let them focus more on xenForo development in the interim period.

That said, I'm also slightly worried based on statements at vBulletin and activity here, that a settlement is in the works... June 12th could be an interesting day.
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Sums it perfectly.
 
Anthony Parsons said:
I believe that if IB lose in California without any doubts or iffy moments, they will end it there. The harm both financially and their brand will outweigh their efforts to try and cripple XF, which they have failed to achieve to date.
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It's really not harming the vB brand at all. Take a step outside this site, and you'll notice the number of people complaining about it is minimal (minimal enough that the chance of any random person shopping for forum software has either not heard of the case, or doesn't care about it.).
 
Yorick said:
The idea of a settlement worries me.

What makes you say June 12th?
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If there was a settlement between XF and vB that involves handing over XF or anything close to that it's probably the end for me when it comes to forums, or will head back to IPB and end the drama. I just really hope that won't be the case.
 
Ace said:
It's really not harming the vB brand at all. Take a step outside this site, and you'll notice the number of people complaining about it is minimal (minimal enough that the chance of any random person shopping for forum software has either not heard of the case, or doesn't care about it.).
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This item is only playing at vBulletin and Xenforo and on some admin sites. Its never been reported outside 3 or 4 websites so people just do not know.
 
Lucas said:
If there was a settlement between XF and vB that involves handing over XF or anything close to that it's probably the end for me when it comes to forums, or will head back to IPB and end the drama. I just really hope that won't be the case.
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I can't see a settlement that would involve handing XF over to IB - its got nothing to do with them, although they think it is.

I wouldn't be surprised if they rolled out an XF clone wrapped up in a 'vBulletin 5' disguise and said 'see, we told you XenForo copied us'.
 
MGSteve said:
I wouldn't be surprised if they rolled out an XF clone wrapped up in a 'vBulletin 5' disguise and said 'see, we told you XenForo copied us'.
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I don't think they are that stupid, but who knows? Specially not since the case isn't over and could be added as evidence to the court of IB and their games.
 
Settlement? So it could be -
  1. KAM joining IB and IB announces that XF 1.2 will be released (with few added features) as vBulletin 5 OR
  2. KAM pay commission to IB for each sold license OR
  3. XF shuts down OR
..or what?
 
TheBigK said:
Settlement? So it could be -
  1. KAM joining IB and IB announces that XF 1.2 will be released (with few added features) as vBulletin 5 OR
  2. KAM pay commission to IB for each sold license OR
  3. XF shuts down OR
..or what?
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Door No. 1.

vB realizes XenForo team was right about the direction vB should have gone two years ago. XenForo was built and has proven successful. XenForo can likely not withstand costly legal assault. vB can't build a new product that is like XenForo or situation becomes reversed. A standoff. A couple months of programming updating XenForo. A pile of cash to XenForo. June 12th and the summer of love in SF.

There is Option 4.

4. XenForo, sure of their legal position, gets investor help to fight suit, comes out with XenForo 1.2 beta on June 12 (that would be smart and funny PR work and good business strategy, give out flyers at ForumCon.com vB5 announcement).​
 
steven s said:
My money is on door #1.
Much like vB Gallery went to Photopost.
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Having read one of the depositions that's floating around the internet & describes the interactions one of them (Mike Kier, I believe) had w/ IB after they took over, I seriously doubt it.

June 12 is 6 days away, so we have that long to come up with something else to ruminate on.
 
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