California Case Update

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I've been reading post (here and else where) that says January 2013 is a long and costly pause. I disagree.

The cost to prepare would be the same no matter if the case was next month or next year. Once the legal team has everything documented, that is the cost. If you want to be technical... It would technically cost more if they had to rush that readiness (in this case they don't).

Pushing the date out further is also to XenForo advantage. If the case was "next month" vBulletin could claim they didn't have enough time and seek extensions or even further grounds to appeal. Jan 2013 is 7 months from now... That's almost 1 full year from now... They're not going to have much grounds for appeal based upon time constrains and the odds of extensions are even less likely to be approved.

So this is again a win for XenForo in the strategy of things.
 
I wouldn't be so sure that IB would appeal actually... because then they really do open themselves up to antitrust issues if a jury finds in favour of Xenforo due to IB providing little to zero actual substantial evidence to prove their proofs beyond reasonable doubt.

Appeals are great for some things... they can do you a lot of damage in other suits. IB would literally be opening themselves up to being sued for millions under antitrust laws if they appealed for the sake of it.

You have to separate the suits against XF the company and individuals. They may win something against an individual, though that would have zero impact on their stance with how they handle the company itself.

When they lose in California, they could pursue the UK suit, however; losing in California would pretty much establish they have zero evidence to continue in UK courts. UK courts are not as lenient to be screwed around. UK courts could really do IB a lot of damage monetarily if they pursued that cause if they lose in California.

Even with IB's intentions to try and take XF out financially... the end of the day it will end really bad for IB if they cross borders into the UK without a win in California, not for XF or its directors. Once IB put themselves willingly under UK jurisdiction they are vulnerable to UK laws.

I believe that if IB lose in California without any doubts or iffy moments, they will end it there. The harm both financially and their brand will outweigh their efforts to try and cripple XF, which they have failed to achieve to date.
 
Sorry anthony, most of that is completely innaccurate. This case has ZERO to do with antitrust issues. And a jury doesnt make a finding of quantity of evidence.
 
Xenforo made it about antitrust with one of their last lodgements... hence, why IB have shifted in how they've approached documents, suddenly requesting things to be in private and other factors. The entire thing has been about antitrust (knocking out the competition) due to IB's false, misleading and completely outrageous claims this entire fiasco.
 
we_are_borg said:
I would not be supprised if the law suit was dropped in a few months time. vBulletin needs to consider their position in the end.
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Likewise, I will be very surprised if this actually gets to court. If it does, it won't be good for IB anyway as G+G have shown they are certainly no mugs when it comes to this and quite honestly, I expect they will tear them apart in court when IB try and present their 'evidence'.

With the added anti-trust element now, perhaps IB will want to drop the case before it gets to court and I suspect/hope they will offer to settle with XF out of court.

I'd laugh if the jury threw the case out and IB ended up with an antitrust investigation! lol
 
TheVisitors said:
I've been reading post (here and else where) that says January 2013 is a long and costly pause. I disagree. The cost to prepare would be the same no matter if the case was next month or next year. Once the legal team has everything documented, that is the cost.
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The costs build up as trial approaches. As does the person's time involvement. Their lawyers ask for stuff. Your lawyers ask for stuff. Motions are filed with the court of this and that. Witnesses lined up, deposed, defense constructed. The idea behind these kind of suits is to drain the resources of the opponent. Winning the lawsuit is secondary to achieving their goal of putting competition out of business.

Its like a medieval siege, does the castle have the resources to resist. In this case, money and time.

The long time to trial means eight months of uncertainty which will affect customer decisions. Cutting the castle off from resupply.
TheVisitors said:
Pushing the date out further is also to XenForo advantage
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Disadvantage. If VB has no real case, a quicker/faster equals cheaper and case is over. If VB has no case dragging it out over years is how they win, the only way they can win.
 
Anthony Parsons said:
Xenforo made it about antitrust with one of their last lodgements... hence, why IB have shifted in how they've approached documents, suddenly requesting things to be in private and other factors. The entire thing has been about antitrust (knocking out the competition) due to IB's false, misleading and completely outrageous claims this entire fiasco.
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Read a little anthony.....

Antitrust laws do not prevent companies from using the legal system or political process to attempt to reduce competition. Most of these activities are considered legal under the Noerr-Pennington doctrine. Also, regulations by states may be immune under the Parker immunity doctrine.​

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law
 
I think there are potential anti-trust issues in this case based on IB's announcement about the suit "warning" (and to my view) "threatening" consequences for using/buying XF. That said, there are no apparent anti-trust issues in the current case. This is a potential issue only at this point and not related to this case.

The jury, should it get the case to consider, will certainly be charged with determining whether there is enough evidence to make a finding by a preponderance of the evidence (one of the earlier posts stated "beyond a reasonable doubt"....that is not the standard in most civil cases (there can be particular rules or statutes that alter the normal standard of proof).

The jury would decide whether there is enough evidence to make a finding. However, the judge also has a role and can find that as a matter of law, there has not been enough evidence to meet this standard (and would result in a JNOV- judgment notwithstanding verdict).

As for appeal, normally, the "facts" found by a trial court are not disturbed. The issues would in the vast majority of cases be based on whether there were legal errors. If an appellate court found error, it normally would not result in a new trial. Instead, it would remand the case to the trial court to correct the legal errors (as opposed to the findings of fact). It is very difficult to give concrete thoughts on hypothetical situations. That said, an appeal in this case by IB would seem very unlikely to me. However, an appeal by XF based on legal issues regarding jurisdictional issues might well be viable and/or likely (though, this would pre-suppose a loss by XF; at this point that seems exceedingly unlikely).
 
Joeychgo said:
Read a little anthony.....
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I don't tend to cite the wikipedia as any type of authoritative legal document, when the lawyers here whom are posting in this thread cite possible antitrust issues, the Xenforo lawyers recent lodgements cite possible antitrust and also appeals are vastly different in civil vs. criminal cases, as mentioned by lawyers in this thread.

I think you're becoming focused on one part of many things I have added into this Joey. Again, the antitrust was only a recent addition by Xenforo lawyers. Will it play out that way? I do not know. But I do know I cannot cite either way, except it is now legally present within this case as per Xenforo lawyers, thus is now discussable with validity IMHO.
 
Ahh, Joeychgo, thought I recognised that trolling individual from VBulletin.
First time I've had to use ignore on Xenforo, lol.

Personally, I can't wait for the case to be heard in January and I really wish Xenforo and the team all the best.
 
I didn't know about the rift between IB and the former owner of FlyerTalk, so thanks for sharing that information. Funny enough, I was in the Internet Brands' offices the day that the sale of FT went through and was announced. IB was in discussions with me to purchase my site and bring me on to oversee all of their automotive sites.

That was 3 days before I got married back on the East Coast. I spent my 10 day honeymoon in Hawaii contemplating their offer and in the end decided against it. Best decision I've ever made.
 
Onimua said:
Considering how long it's taken to have a court date settled now, I don't see how it would be worth it to drag it out even longer trying to sue them back.

Once the case is settled, moving on would be the best thing XF could do.
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We all desire as customers to see the end of this long drama once and for all but we don't know how much IB has hurt XenForo financially and the damage they caused by dragging their feed. It's only just for XenForo to sue back for that. Well we are not there yet let's not count chicken before they are hatched (Turkish proverb 'dereyi görmeden paçayı sıvamak') :D
 
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