$250 to remove brand removal?? Is this true?

Kevin

Well-known member
I am saying i would likely buy it if it was for example $100, but not at $250, that's pretty clear and what I've already conveyed.
You're also missing the point that @DragonByte Tech is making; if the price of removing the branding was low enough that hobbyist sites would be motivated to go branding free 'just because' then XF loses out on the possible additional sales that could be generated if the branding was left intact (which has been demonstrated in this very thread).

To put it bluntly: It is not in the best interests of XF to make branding free a cheap enough option for everybody.
 

Dermot

Active member
You're also missing the point that @DragonByte Tech is making; if the price of removing the branding was low enough that hobbyist sites would be motivated to go branding free 'just because' then XF loses out on the possible additional sales that could be generated if the branding was left intact (which has been demonstrated in this very thread).

To put it bluntly: It is not in the best interests of XF to make branding free a cheap enough option for everybody.
I think you missed the point here, where did anyone say to make it cheap for "everybody" ?

did you even read the the previous posts?

As was stated more than twice now is the same premise of individual license as compared to a business license, the individual removal being cheaper than the business removal, at no point does it say that the removal should be the same for everybody.

Again, this would just be an option for that particular user/customer and used in many software models usually denoted as Personal use Vs Commercial use..

Anybody making money from their installation is classed as commericial and should have to pay the $250 aka dragonbyte tech for a clear example, they obviously should be classed a business user due to the nature of their business.

These business users then get a reduced price on multiple licenses and i'm sure they could get other commercial benefits, why should non business users not get similar deals to the nature of their licensing?

I can understand why the business user would be annoyed by this concept, but non commercial? you must be selfish too :X3:
 

AndrewSimm

Active member
I understand student use of some software titles (not forums), but "personal" vs "commercial" is silly. To be clear you believe that software should be priced based on the perceived income of an entity, and not the value that the transaction holds for both the customer and XF. You believe that if I order BBQ for my employees that I should have to pay more.

I got an idea that maybe you will like. XF should charge personal users like yourself for use, but reward you when you hit certain levels. (like a game)

- 1 Cent Per Post Paid to XF on Monthly Basis
- Unlock Avatars after 10,000 Post
- Can create more than 5 forums after 25,000 Post
- Can change style after 50,000 Post
- Can set ads after 100,000 Post
- Remove Copyright after 1 Million Post
- Stop Charging you have 10 Million Post
 

Hristo Avramov

Active member
My business savvy side is still considering removing the brand when I purchase XenForo because I really don’t want my competition to have the same software as me.

My nice guy helpful side is considering keeping it to help XenForo, and also helping my members in my online community find great software for forums if they need it.

My frugal side is still trying to decide between the two.
I think if your competitors like the software they will find it easily. I also saw xenforo at digital point for first time and I liked it. It was really easy to find out.
 

RobinHood

Well-known member
XenForo is a commercial company, I can't believe they haven't even coughed up for the brand removal on this site, surely they'd get a employee discount. I mean come on, it's bloody everywhere!
 

tajhay

Well-known member
I dont mind the xenforo copyright footer. Its the addons that put so many copyright footers that bother me. Its for that reason i have started buying addons from devs who dont put any copyright footers (and theres more increasingly doing that). I like to show my support to them, and usually they are the best addon devs on here.
 
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shimspedy

Active member
I dont mind the xenforo copyright footer. Its the addons that put so many copyright footers that bother me. Its for that reason i have started buying addons from devs who dont put any copyright footers (and theres more increasingly doing that). I like to show my support to them, and usually they are the best addon devs on here.
your right ... addons with a paragraph footer are annoying
 

RobinHood

Well-known member
Add ons arguably need the exposure more than the core software does. It's easy to figure out it's XenForo to anyone who really wants to know by a multitude of ways. With add ons it can be impossible to figure it out unless specifically informed or linked to their site, and their sales figures and install rate is magnitudes smaller than that of the core software.

I like a clean footer as much as the next guy, but in the end I think most users don't care nearly as much as we do.
 

Kevin

Well-known member
In case anybody missed it, heads-up... the price is going to $300 when the new pricing levels go into effect.

 

Charlie J

Active member
I think these price changes won't be good, it'll cause more people to get nulled versions instead of paying for it outright. While I believe branding removal should be a thing, it shouldn't be as expensive as it currently is. This also being said, it's the reason so many people remove the branding when they shouldn't - because the price is insane.

Just because your site generates some sort of income, doesn't mean it'll be 'worth it' to pay $300 for removal. You gaining more shouldn't take away the value for money. If anything I respect developers like ThemeHouse more for actually allowing us to remove branding if we've genuinely bought their themes / addons. I've been in gaming server communities, and all I hear is people removing branding because the price is too insane.

I'd understand more of XenForo was free, and you was able to pay to have branding removed. Not for already pricy software (while it is good, i will say).
 

MySiteGuy

Formerly ftsservice
I understand student use of some software titles (not forums), but "personal" vs "commercial" is silly. To be clear you believe that software should be priced based on the perceived income of an entity, and not the value that the transaction holds for both the customer and XF. You believe that if I order BBQ for my employees that I should have to pay more.

I got an idea that maybe you will like. XF should charge personal users like yourself for use, but reward you when you hit certain levels. (like a game)

  • 1 Cent Per Post Paid to XF on Monthly Basis
  • Unlock Avatars after 10,000 Post
  • Can create more than 5 forums after 25,000 Post
  • Can change style after 50,000 Post
  • Can set ads after 100,000 Post
  • Remove Copyright after 1 Million Post
  • Stop Charging you have 10 Million Post
Type of use is a business model for a great deal of software. Many commercial databases, web servers, operating systems, control panels, virtualization, etc. are based on the hardware they will be used on, the entity size (or revenue), and so forth. Different types of entities require more or less customer support, or get different types of support priority, and so forth.
 

MySiteGuy

Formerly ftsservice
I think these price changes won't be good, it'll cause more people to get nulled versions instead of paying for it outright. While I believe branding removal should be a thing, it shouldn't be as expensive as it currently is. This also being said, it's the reason so many people remove the branding when they shouldn't - because the price is insane.

Just because your site generates some sort of income, doesn't mean it'll be 'worth it' to pay $300 for removal. You gaining more shouldn't take away the value for money. If anything I respect developers like ThemeHouse more for actually allowing us to remove branding if we've genuinely bought their themes / addons. I've been in gaming server communities, and all I hear is people removing branding because the price is too insane.

I'd understand more of XenForo was free, and you was able to pay to have branding removed. Not for already pricy software (while it is good, i will say).
Xenforo, even with the price increases, is less than the competition and hasn't raised prices in a while. Cost of business goes up over time due to inflation, taxation changes (almost always an increase), and increased development time as the product gets more complex. Sure, I'd like to pay less, who wouldn't? But I consider it a bargain for the features available, lower initial cost than some other commercial forum software and lower renewal fees (plus renewals are annual, rather than every 6 months like one major competitor).

As to people removing branding and nulling software, I think the majority of people who do such things would do it regardless of the price. Many of them give the same excuses people have traditionally used for pirating software, video and music, and even when there are services who offer things at lower prices... these people do not magically stop their pirating habits.
 

AndrewSimm

Active member
Type of use is a business model for a great deal of software. Many commercial databases, web servers, operating systems, control panels, virtualization, etc. are based on the hardware they will be used on, the entity size (or revenue), and so forth. Different types of entities require more or less customer support, or get different types of support priority, and so forth.
In my day job (industrial engineer) I occasionally deal with large software purchases ($250k+). In my experience, large corporations do not pay more for software but actually less. Large companies have some of the best negotiators in the world and I have never seen the company I work for pay the advertised price.

A software contract for a large entity is different then you might think. First, the licensing agreement is negotiated and key details on support are agreed and put into the contract. This support level is different based on the need of the company and its value. Let's say a company such as Apple wanted to use XF as a customer forum. A support contract could say that XF has to install all patches and respond to issues within 1 hour. Now XF does not currently offer that service but I am willing to bet they would for a price. Software companies typically have to take out an insurance policy of $2m+. Companies typically get rights to intellectual property from the software. For example, I might pay for a change to the software and not only can you not shop the same idea but you can not mention the idea to other clients. Of course, this does not stop you from solving their problem if similar.

Branding free is not an item that requires support and XF appears to sell the same support to everyone. The best I can tell the only discount you can get from XF is a bulk license (again favors large businesses). As a business, the XF team wants to sell their platform and putting a link at the bottom of a forum as some return. The price for removing this option would need to not only cover for the lost return (annually) but also provide a profit.
 
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MySiteGuy

Formerly ftsservice
In my day job (industrial engineer) I occasionally deal with large software purchases ($250k+). In my experience, large corporations do not pay more for software but actually less. Large companies have some of the best negotiators in the world and I have never seen the company I work for pay the advertised price.

A software contract for a large entity is different then you might think. First, the licensing agreement is negotiated and key details on support are agreed and put into the contract. This support level is different based on the need of the company and its value. Let's say a company such as Apple wanted to use XF as a customer forum. A support contract could say that XF has to install all patches and respond to issues within 1 hour. Now XF does not currently offer that service but I am willing to bet they would for a price. Software companies typically have to take out an insurance policy of $2m+. Companies typically get rights to intellectual property from the software. For example, I might pay for a change to the software and not only can you not shop the same idea but you can not mention the idea to other clients. Of course, this does not stop you from solving their problem if similar.
I am well aware of how large entity software contracts work. In a previous job, I occasionally dealt with large software purchases ($100K+) and large hardware purchases ($1 million+). And I've worked for major corporate software companies (ADP, Computer Associates), small to mid-sized software companies (Sage, for instance) and large corporations (Southern Company, MCI, Bank of America). So you're not the only one bringing experience to the table in this discussion. Of course when you reach very high pricing levels there is negotiation - sometimes, depending on what the software was. That doesn't take away from the fact that there are often different pricing tiers. And even more so when the software is not in the six figure range. Some even have different prices based on the entity type, for instance, Oracle charges differently for government agencies.

The point is moot though. XF probably knows better than you and I how much branding free brings them versus branding link referrals, and prices accordingly. Not liking this doesn't change it. Some software packages do not allow branding removal at all.
 

AndrewSimm

Active member
I am well aware of how large entity software contracts work. In a previous job, I occasionally dealt with large software purchases ($100K+) and large hardware purchases ($1 million+). And I've worked for major corporate software companies (ADP, Computer Associates), small to mid-sized software companies (Sage, for instance) and large corporations (Southern Company, MCI, Bank of America). So you're not the only one bringing experience to the table in this discussion. Of course when you reach very high pricing levels there is negotiation - sometimes, depending on what the software was. That doesn't take away from the fact that there are often different pricing tiers. And even more so when the software is not in the six figure range. Some even have different prices based on the entity type, for instance, Oracle charges differently for government agencies.

The point is moot though. XF probably knows better than you and I how much branding free brings them versus branding link referrals, and prices accordingly. Not liking this doesn't change it. Some software packages do not allow branding removal at all.
Listing out those companies makes me think we might be neighbors...

Anyways, I am not suggesting that pricing tiers do not exist but rather the basis for those tiers is not simply charging the bigger company more. Dealing with government or education institutes would likely involve some regulatory requirements and potential tax incentives. In the case of XF, there isn't a vehicle with which they would have incentives to price a branding free option differently. The price is so cheap already that the consumer should either pay it or not. Even organizations that get special pricing tend to offer something. For example, a local BBQ might offer to bring food to a charity event but they are not going to agree to remove the branding from the trailer, shirts and other gear.
 

shimspedy

Active member
I think these price changes won't be good, it'll cause more people to get nulled versions instead of paying for it outright. While I believe branding removal should be a thing, it shouldn't be as expensive as it currently is. This also being said, it's the reason so many people remove the branding when they shouldn't - because the price is insane.

Just because your site generates some sort of income, doesn't mean it'll be 'worth it' to pay $300 for removal. You gaining more shouldn't take away the value for money. If anything I respect developers like ThemeHouse more for actually allowing us to remove branding if we've genuinely bought their themes / addons. I've been in gaming server communities, and all I hear is people removing branding because the price is too insane.

I'd understand more of XenForo was free, and you was able to pay to have branding removed. Not for already pricy software (while it is good, i will say).
xenforo copyright doesn't bother me what bothers me is to have 10 copyrights from different addons
 
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