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XF Development - xf falling apart?

Discussion in 'General XenForo Discussion and Feedback' started by Shelley, Sep 27, 2012.

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  1. Shelley

    Shelley Well-Known Member

    Are we allowed to talk about xf development without the risk of the thread being closed? I noticed your allowing talk of vb5 development and bashing a competitor so I'm assuming it is okay to discuss xf development with members keeping everything civil towards one another?

    So - Any news on the questions which were sent to Ashley? While the longer xf devs are away this forum is certainly falling apart with piracy threads and members telling other members to die and the threads are remained open even after they are reported.

    XF devs really need to get back here and impose some normality here and stick to their guns in not allowing bashing topics to remain which it wasn't allowed before.

    I think you should allow many of the 3rd part resource providers a chance to speak and allow them to post their questions and concerns without other members of the community to post abusive replies to them like which was done in past threads.

    You've allowed a vb5 development bashing thread to stand I'm asking for you to allow an XF development thread which will remain civil to stand also without you closing it when questions get hard.
    Bram, TheGoldenChild, Corwin and 31 others like this.
  2. CyclingTribe

    CyclingTribe Well-Known Member

    Yes, it would be nice if everyone could set their differences aside and start working together as a team again. (y)
    Bram, Syndol, lazer and 5 others like this.
  3. Mutt

    Mutt Well-Known Member

    almost every day I pop my head in on the front page w/ the xf twitter feed hoping for some news. a release, something. in the back of my mind I'm hoping that development has continued & they are holding off releasing anything until the suit is over. this is probably a pipe dream but I'm sticking w/ it and continue to watch / wait. I'm very please w/ XF but want more. there are features I feel are necessary that if not for this suit, I'm sure would have been implemented by now.

    thanks to the private developers who have continued to contribute!
    Dan, erich37, Alien and 1 other person like this.
  4. Brentnauer

    Brentnauer Well-Known Member

    We could if there were any ;)

    I've accepted the fact that it'll be some time, if ever, before development continues. Thankfully I'm only using this to run a hobby site... But I realize many others made the unfortunate choice to base their livelihoods on xF development.

    No amount of personal drama (which I've no interest in) should prevent the company from providing some actual information about the future of their product for this long. Any updates we DO get from Ashley excel in saying absolutely nothing.

    I really like xF. I don't like the cold shoulder.

    It's a bogus lawsuit, not the rapture. The devs can and should be participating here.
    Peggy, HWS, Syndol and 3 others like this.
  5. kkm323

    kkm323 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Shelley, I hope things goes back the way the were 9 months ago?! The silence won't help solve the problem at all. It only making it worst, if this behavior continue no one would ever trust xf again. We are talking about a pay software here not an open source one. :(
    Shelley and John like this.
  6. John L.

    John L. Well-Known Member

    The time away has affected the way I handle development of my addons. Due to the lack of development, sales of my addons has slowed down quite a bit and thus the cost of development becomes too high. It's also the uncertainty in the product that drives me up a wall at times. I want to make Simple Forms 2, but what would be the point of releasing it if we have no stability in the community. For a lot of us this is not just a personal hobby (in some instances for me it is), but a business and our livelihoods. Luckily for me I also have a full-time job and paying the bills are never an issue, but I can only imagine what this is like for other developers.

    I've always been very supportive of the team and I appreciate Jake and Slavik's handling of their moderator duties. While people may not agree with their tactics, you have to agree that they have taken on a tough role and have fought their way through it. But this isn't something either of them can help fix. Someone from the core team, preferably Kier or Mike..needs to step up and post something. I do not care if it's a pep talk or a rally cry, but something is better than nothing. Unfortunately for us, if this continues then we will not be able to support our addons for the future.

    I am sure the lawsuit is taking its toll to a degree, but the necessity for answers has reached the point of no return. It's no longer a "nice to have" and it needs to be done before the trail. It's become frustrating almost to the point where I don't even care to visit these forums any longer. XenForo 1.1.3 is a great product, it works well for me and my community. However, this product will only last us but so long and if progress is not made soon, it will be left behind. This is not a threat (as if it would mean anything), but simply the reality of the situation. January is just too far away...

    So if Mike, Kier or Ashley happen to see this post or this thread...I hope they take our concerns seriously. As it stands right now, I don't think they are and I am starting to get the feeling that they do not care.

    And that's the worst feeling, as a customer, to have...
    Rob Fritz, HWS, Syndol and 8 others like this.
  7. David_

    David_ Active Member

    I suppose we could sum everything up with a couple of posts, ready?

  8. Chris D

    Chris D XenForo Developer Staff Member

    I prefer the term "morons" rather than dissidents.
    LPH likes this.
  9. LPH

    LPH Well-Known Member

    I saw this thread - and started to roll my eyes - fortunately the thread is not out of control. I appreciate it.

    I visit this forum daily - usually in the evenings. I look for new ideas on how to improve my forum. I'm not particularly looking for any major announcements on the development of XF. Yes, WordPress provides a good development schedule of 3-4 months and XF development is slower. This is fine with me. XF is stable enough and I'm slow enough about working on my sites.

    I do sympathize with people trying to earn money as Add-on developers. It's rough and it would be nice to figure out a way to be more supportive. There are great add-ons for XF.

    Now - if XF could just regularly post an update then most people's nerves would calm. After all, XF is a great product.
    Adam Howard, erich37 and jadmperry like this.
  10. David_

    David_ Active Member

  11. jadmperry

    jadmperry Well-Known Member

    I can't speak for others, but I have spent roughly $120 for paid add-ons in the last month. If add-ons were my business, I would not wait for anything as there is a good market for XF ad-ons.

    As to the OP, I don't really see a problem with discussing relative strengths and weaknesses of competitors products. For anyone who doesn't like a thread topic, aren't they free to skip reading it? I don't get this thread- it seems to be a renewed call for more communication, but this is not anything new. I doubt it will have any more success than the other posts/threads asking for the same. I, too, wish that we had communication from Kier or Mike. However, I really don't get the title, "xf falling apart." The product works great, same as it has since its release. But, my not agreeing with the post doesn't mean it should not exist.
  12. Robbo

    Robbo Well-Known Member

    Errr there is not a good market for XenForo add-ons thank you very much. The market is small. And people don't like to spend much around these parts. I have real data to go on and know the majority of developers here. I can't even cover bills with sales. Others have simply stopped making add-ons due to only get a handful of sales. The market is there if you are a basement coder putting out sub par software that people will for some reason pay for (can't name anyone but it annoys me).

    And to add to that. If add-ons was your business you would be running a loss. A substantial one.
    Syndol, simbolo, John and 1 other person like this.
  13. Brentnauer

    Brentnauer Well-Known Member

    I think this is where a lot of people get confused about the subject... Nobody is saying that the product doesn't work splendidly.

    The concern is that the entity which produced said product is in an unignorable downward spiral, based on both the inactions of the developers, and the trust we customers have in xenForo as a company.
    HWS, David_ and CyclingTribe like this.
  14. David_

    David_ Active Member

    I think they get it, they just refuse to accept it.
  15. jadmperry

    jadmperry Well-Known Member

    I get your point. I just disagree. The issues they face with the lawsuit are well known. Apparently, there are also personal issues going on. But their track record in developing a fantastic product, the fact they have delivered everything they promised in the product, and that the "hiatus" is relatively short (and by that, I mean, vB, while constantly talking about what the future holds, has taken years of what I would call a hiatus, especially in terms of delivering or rather not delivering on promised products/features, while we are talking about several months with XF), does not make me trust XF less. But, this is a matter of opinion. You or others can view it the way you described.
    snoopy5 likes this.
  16. jadmperry

    jadmperry Well-Known Member

    So, unless someone agrees with you, they are wrong?
    Adam Howard likes this.
  17. Robbo

    Robbo Well-Known Member

    Simple fact. KAM might know how to make software etc. And what we have now is fine (for the end user). But they fail, badly, at managing a community. My words are, deal with it. Nothing anyone can say or do at this point.
    Hopefully they can hire someone with a clue what to do with a community when they start making money again.
    snoopy5, Insy, simbolo and 1 other person like this.
  18. robdog

    robdog Well-Known Member

    The OP is a little misleading. With the vB5 demo, we are just calling a spade a spade. The demo is horrendous from a user experience and how its coded. Yes, these are mostly opinions, but a number of experienced codes have weighed in on the situations and all have come to the same conclusion.

    But this thread will basically rehash all the old things we constantly want answers to but will NEVER get until the trial is over.

    It would be one thing if there was no lawsuit and KAM fell off the face of the earth, but that is not the case here...
    Adam Howard and jadmperry like this.
  19. Shelley

    Shelley Well-Known Member

    You only have to venture into many topics where members getting bashed, every other thread is purely bickering (choose to ignore this that is your privilege) Jake and slavik allowed these verbally abusive posts to stand and I think this is to deviate from the real issue, the devs absence causing unrest in the community. Clearly the staff are letting things fly that would otherwise be acted upon so the "Falling apart" in the title is referenced to that.

    Yes, for the moment the software works fine, I'm fine with it, I'm also fine with the developers taking a break but ignoring their customers and the abusive posts towards members that remained to deviate from those hard questions that clearly Jake and slavik can't answer is clearly resulting in those abusive posts left standing. As for the software as I said, it works fine, sooner or later it will be redundant if the developers are not going to develop it further (even after the lawsuit) So personally, instead of leaving people hanging, show them the same respect and come out and bury those rumors.

    You're right, this thread will probably end up like the others, deleted, closed or without any response from the developers whether they really plan on coming back to develop but we will see if they atleast stop hiding behind jake and slavik and show some respect to their customers and letting their company forums be a slating ground where member bashing member bashing competitor is now allowed.

    Facts are facts the inconsistency here is terrible, one day your not allowed to talk about competitor products, the next you are and to the extreme it right out bashing. Focus on the issues here before over there before making any judgment I say.

    My reason for posting this is seeing the community fall apart which I find disgusting, especially since I have so much admiration for what the devs gave us and excellent piece of software that still needs developing, community needs sorting and rules put down what is allowed and what isn't to stop this inconsistency.

    Take this post or read into it as you feel fit. I adore xenforo, i want to see it developed further and have some kind of normality, consistency back. Simple as that.
    yessir, Peggy, erich37 and 3 others like this.
  20. jadmperry

    jadmperry Well-Known Member

    I would certainly agree that you have a better picture of the market than I do. But, where I am uncertain is what the cause is- whether some products are not up to snuff (as you suggested), whether it is a pricing issue (either to high or to low), or it is just the volume of available licenses out there for XF (which could be an issue- and one that can creates a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy...if coders don't build add-ons that are quality and wanted, then maybe there are less XF purchasers. The problem then, is that it takes time to build a large enough critical mass of XF purchasers to make the add-on market a good business for coders; I don't think there would be an easy solution for this, if it is the issue. I think it would, in large part, just take time. However, I could see that the lack of communication from the developers working to hamper that growth in licenses. More interesting to me, though, would be how the add-on market has changed over the past year. Were things running along nicely at some point in the past and then dropped off? That might indicate a causal connection. However, if things have been slow from the start, well, that speaks to a likely need for that critical mass of license holders for coders to make a decent living).
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