XenForo 2.0 Discussion

[Gladius]

XF 2.0 is pretty much our only priority. The only time it isn't being worked on is when we're working on third point maintenance releases for XF, RM, MG and ES. That probably equates to about a day or two out of the month (if that).

So:

Yes

So what you're saying basically is that you'll be skipping XF2 and going straight for XF3, right?

 

[sbj]

I know you guys will tell us more when we see an announcement, but can you guys tell us if 50% of the work is done or not?

 

[Chris D]

Oh yeah easily. It's difficult to quantify exactly though. We've still got some significant tasks ahead of us.

 

[duderuud]

XF 2.0 is pretty much our only priority. The only time it isn't being worked on is when we're working on third point maintenance releases for XF, RM, MG and ES. That probably equates to about a day or two out of the month (if that).

So:

Yes

I'm not a coder so what do I know, but isn't it still a very very long time?

How long did it take to get 1.0 finished then? Probably an unfair equation I know but still

 

[Chris D]

The announcement was made 1 year, 9 months ago and in that time as well as going full pelt on XF 2.0 we did also develop XF 1.5 which took around 3 months.

When XF 1.0 was developed it was a much smaller product than XF 1.5 is today. It was also developed without an existing customer base to support and without an existing product to maintain. It's not really comparable.

Regardless of how long it takes, the time taken will be necessary to deliver a quality product. It's in no one's interest for this to be rushed or for corners to be cut.

 

[KC Riley]

I'm not a coder so what do I know, but isn't it still a very very long time?

How long did it take to get 1.0 finished then? Probably an unfair equation I know but still

No. People forget the testing, validation and quality assurance processes involved in development.

Xenforo is a pretty substantial web application. From previous posts, they are looking to reduce XF's use of JavaScript/AJAX, JQuery.

That's a tall order. I'm glad XF is taking leadership here since Java is the source of many of the security and performance issues plaguing modern websites.

The number of Java based bugs in VB 5.2.1 and IPS 4.1.11 is astounding.

 

[Chris D]

From previous posts, they are looking to reduce XF's use of JavaScript/AJAX, JQuery.

We're actually not necessarily looking to reduce use of these things.

Java is the source of many of the security and performance issues plaguing modern websites.

Are you talking about Javascript here or Java? The latter is renowned for being insecure, but modern websites rarely, if ever, rely on Java anymore. It requires your browser to have a plugin installed and enabled.

In terms of Javascript it is possible to introduce some security issues but I wouldn't necessarily go as far as to say it "plagues" modern websites. XSS issues are somewhat common, but they are often difficult to find and exploit. These types of issues are not inherent within Javascript itself, instead they are introduced inadvertently by the developer.

I don't know the specifics but I'm fairly sure neither IPB or VB use Java so maybe there have been some Javascript related bugs here.

 

[KC Riley]

We're actually not necessarily looking to reduce use of these things.


Are you talking about Javascript here or Java? The latter is renowned for being insecure, but modern websites rarely, if ever, rely on Java anymore. It requires your browser to have a plugin installed and enabled.

In terms of Javascript it is possible to introduce some security issues but I wouldn't necessarily go as far as to say it "plagues" modern websites. XSS issues are somewhat common, but they are often difficult to find and exploit. These types of issues are not inherent within Javascript itself, instead they are introduced inadvertently by the developer.

I don't know the specifics but I'm fairly sure neither IPB or VB use Java so maybe there have been some Javascript related bugs here.

I heard some some of the folks on the Admin Zone that XF2 was going to make more use it HTML 5 to reduce the use of AJAX and JQuery.

It's sound like I've misunderstood what they were talking about.

 

[whynot]

I heard some some of the folks on the Admin Zone that XF2 was going to make more use it HTML 5 to reduce the use of AJAX and JQuery.

Those folks there are the folks from here.
They know about XF2 there as much as they do here:Nothing.

 

[tajhay]

I heard some some of the folks on the Admin Zone

lol hardly the most reputable source.

 

[tyteen4a03]

I heard some some of the folks on the Admin Zone that XF2 was going to make more use it HTML 5 to reduce the use of AJAX and JQuery.

It's sound like I've misunderstood what they were talking about.

HTML5 is only a markup language. For the interactive parts of the website you still have to use AJAX to fetch data to/from the server. jQuery has a nice API to make these AJAX requests. There is no need to reduce the use of either.

 

[LPH]

It was also developed without an existing customer base to support and without an existing product to maintain. It's not really comparable.

This is very true. Life as a developer is easy when it's just you and the screen. Once there is a user base then things slow WAY down due to support and people asking for new features.

 

[Mr Lucky]

Once there is a user base then things slow WAY down due to support and people asking for new features.

They are just so unreasonable.

 

[KC Riley]

They are just so unreasonable.

Most of us admins/website owners don't really truly understand development processes. Most of us have expectations that sit outside what's realistically possible.

You have people hammering on XF's door asking, "where's XF2?"

Realistically 2-3 years is reasonable time period to create a roadmap, develop, test, perform QA on an app as big as Xenforo.

 

[LPH]

They are just so unreasonable.

I didn't say that, nor think that way. It's priorities shifting from a single focus of the program to the program plus customers.

 

[Jim Kingsnorth]

Most of us admins/website owners don't really truly understand development processes. Most of us have expectations that sit outside what's realistically possible.

You have people hammering on XF's door asking, "where's XF2?"

Realistically 2-3 years is reasonable time period to create a roadmap, develop, test, perform QA on an app as big as Xenforo.

Unless your company is named vBulletin, then you just put out some garbage as a money grab and never deliver what you promised.

 

[Mr Lucky]

I didn't say that, nor think that way. It's priorities shifting from a single focus of the program to the program plus customers.

My apologies, I thought the irony was obvious.

 

[Digital Doctor]

How many lines of code is XF 1.0 and 1.5 ?

 

[Digital Doctor]

HTML 5

I am sure HTML5 is replacing the Flash code.

 

[Chris D]

How many lines of code is XF 1.0 and 1.5 ?

It's difficult to quantify, but I would estimate about 50% more in XF 1.5.

I am sure HTML5 is replacing the Flash code.

Indeed it is.