Wordpress Drama

[AjayJunkies]

It isn't confusing. Their trademark is WordPress. If it was an official WordPress service, they'd have called it WordPress Engine or something else. As it happens, their official hosted service is WordPress.com. Which has ironically caused so much confusion that it apparently warrants its own documentation:

What’s the difference between WordPress.org and WordPress.com?

WordPress vs. WordPress.com People are often confused about the differences between WordPress and WordPress.com. WordPress is the free, Open Source web publishing software project, owned by no one individual or company. WordPress.com is a hosted blogging service run by a company called...

wordpress.org

Maybe.

To put this into perspective into the XF ecosystem, this would be like if MySiteGuy would be to rebrand his hosting and migration services as XFCloud or XFHosting or XFEngine. All of which actively compete with XFs own cloud and hosting. All you guys own is Xenforo.com, not XFHosting.com.

XF has looked the other way on the names of third party mods and authors because those mods specifically supplement and extend your base software. Nobody is rebuilding and selling forums or gallery. XF is going to have a very different perspective now that you're in cloud and are starting to actively compete for hosting. You're necessarily going to become more protective of your hosting and cloud architecture, and it's only a matter of time when you're going to want to protect the clarity of your brands hosting capabilities.

 

[Dad.]

I somehow doubt he would say that. There is no direct correlation between trademarks and trademark words in a domain name. I could legally start a company making doughnuts and use the trademark XenForo to sell my doughnuts under. I would not be able to use the domain XenForo.com because it's already taken. But I could use xenforodoughnuts.com or XenForo.me.uk.

(NB: It would probably be a different issue regarding the actual artwork of the logo )

However I could not use xenForo.co.uk. Again nothing to do with trademarks but purely because that domain has been registered.



What Chris said here makes total sense.

XenForo ltd is not in a position to either "allow" or "disallow" the word in a domain. What I mean by that is they cannot stop you starting a company called xenforosoftware and from registering XenForosoftware.com as the domain is available. However if your company XenForosoftware is developing and selling software then I'm sure they would successfully sue your pants off.

So rather than thinking of xenForo "allowing" or "disallowing" it's better to think that of it as them not suing you for selling XenForo branded doughnuts (@Chris D may be able to confirm that or not), but also that they disallow you from selling xenForo branded software in that your trademark within the same business class is confusing.

I think there may be a great area with a domain such as xenForosupport.com. In that case I think the word "allow" may mean that they are happy not to sue you as long as your site does not make it seem that it is an official xenForo site. Obviously you may want to use the actual or adapted logo and in that case I would definitely ask for permission and get it in writing.

I think there are often issues with game sites (forums) that obviously want to use the game's logo and character illustrations. Often the game company allows it if they deem it is helping but, but they could at any time sue or(more likely) issue a cease and desist and bang goes your Game forum.

I'm not going to read this novel. But you're completely wrong. He did say that. Anyone who creates a website selling xenforo services with xenforo in the name was disallowed early on in xenforo conception. It was something we specifically asked to do also.

Historically case law, depending on perhaps jurisdiction, has allowed brands to protect their trademark when used in domains. This may have changed slowly over the last decade simply due to the large amount of websites. But early on this was indeed a standard.

 

[Dad.]

Maybe.

To put this into perspective into the XF ecosystem, this would be like if MySiteGuy would be to rebrand his hosting and migration services as XFCloud or XFHosting or XFEngine. All of which actively compete with XFs own cloud and hosting. All you guys own is Xenforo.com, not XFHosting.com.

XF has looked the other way on the names of third party mods and authors because those mods specifically supplement and extend your base software. Nobody is rebuilding and selling forums or gallery. XF is going to have a very different perspective now that you're in cloud and are starting to actively compete for hosting. You're necessarily going to become more protective of your hosting and cloud architecture, and it's only a matter of time when you're going to want to protect the clarity of your brands hosting capabilities.

To take your point a bit further, this would allow him to create a site called xenforohosting.com if mr lucky is ever to be listened to and not be infringing on xenforos trademark. To which I highly suggest they do not permit that lol but apparently Chris is fine with it.

 

[MySiteGuy]

Maybe.

To put this into perspective into the XF ecosystem, this would be like if MySiteGuy would be to rebrand his hosting and migration services as XFCloud or XFHosting or XFEngine. All of which actively compete with XFs own cloud and hosting. All you guys own is Xenforo.com, not XFHosting.com.

Curses, you've exposed my evil plot!

 

[RobinHood]

It seems Ashley posted it 14 years ago here

Q: May XenForo be used in domain/site names?

A: XenForo is a limited company, registered in the UK. The company has a website and a distinctive logo. The company also now has a history, which is currently short, but is growing. Therefore the company can demonstrate the right of trademark.

With this in mind, the company wants to protect that trademark, understandably. Therefore, we are not giving permission for XenForo to be used, as part of a site name or domain name (or any name).

Clearly this has potential to become (or has already become) an emotional matter and really, it is quite simple. The point is simply about protecting XenForo trademark. We would be negligent if we did not protect our trademark; for the benefit of our customers future. No one wants to become involved in wrangling over trademark issues, for obvious reasons and we ask that we are not put in a position to have to consider whether to take action.

I also noted this useful Q&A from that thread, which highlights the glaring oversight from the current manual of how to get syntax highlighting in Dreamweaver for XF2

Q: How do I get Dreamweaver to highlight XenForo template syntax?

A: Download and apply the Dreamweaver configuration files using the instructions provided here:

Syntax highlighting for XenForo templates in Dreamweaver:
http://xenforo.com/community/thread...plate-syntax-highlighting-configuration.9800/

 

[Forsaken]

I somehow doubt he would say that. There is no direct correlation between trademarks and trademark words in a domain name. I could legally start a company making doughnuts and use the trademark XenForo to sell my doughnuts under. I would not be able to use the domain XenForo.com because it's already taken. But I could use xenforodoughnuts.com or XenForo.me.uk.

(NB: It would probably be a different issue regarding the actual artwork of the logo )

However I could not use xenForo.co.uk. Again nothing to do with trademarks but purely because that domain has been registered.



What Chris said here makes total sense.

XenForo ltd is not in a position to either "allow" or "disallow" the word in a domain. What I mean by that is they cannot stop you starting a company called xenforosoftware and from registering XenForosoftware.com as the domain is available. However if your company XenForosoftware is developing and selling software then I'm sure they would successfully sue your pants off.

So rather than thinking of xenForo "allowing" or "disallowing" it's better to think that of it as them not suing you for selling XenForo branded doughnuts (@Chris D may be able to confirm that or not), but also that they disallow you from selling xenForo branded software in that your trademark within the same business class is confusing.

I think there may be a great area with a domain such as xenForosupport.com. In that case I think the word "allow" may mean that they are happy not to sue you as long as your site does not make it seem that it is an official xenForo site. Obviously you may want to use the actual or adapted logo and in that case I would definitely ask for permission and get it in writing.

I think there are often issues with game sites (forums) that obviously want to use the game's logo and character illustrations. Often the game company allows it if they deem it is helping but, but they could at any time sue or(more likely) issue a cease and desist and bang goes your Game forum.

Post in thread 'Impressive!'

Aug 2, 2010

I would point out that XenForo is our trademark, and we are obliged to protect its use.

Domains using derivations of the name XFCows or XenRandomization are fine.

• Kier

• 

Post in thread 'How many xen domains have you registered?'

Aug 11, 2010

I've got

xenforoaddons.com
xenforohost.com
xenforohosting.com
xenforomods.com
xenforoplugins.com
xenforothemes.com
xfmods.com

And before anyone bites my head off, I am planning on using them, and I DO respect Kier, Mike and their work.

And yet you flagrantly disregard the statement we have given that XenForo is our trademark, the use of which we are compelled to protect?

• Kier

• 

https://xenforo.com/community/threads/xenforo-trademark-in-a-domain-name.46194/#post-497142 (This is last time I saw the policy enforced, at least for the word trademark).

Trademark does not cover domain names themselves, but it does cover the usage for the domain names. If you are offering services for XenForo, or impersonating XenForo the usage of the XenForo trademark would generally be considered a violation (basically the claim Automattic is making towards WPEngine). XenForoHelp or the old XenForo.sucks website would fall under fair use.

The post above are in reply to a person who was registering a lot of domains specific to XenForo services or products, so would generally be considered a violation.

I walked away for ~30 minutes and got post sniped .

 

[Mr Lucky]

I'm not going to read this novel. But you're completely wrong. He did say that. Anyone who creates a website selling xenforo services with xenforo in the name was disallowed early on in xenforo conception.

You should probably have read the novel in order to understand what I was saying and what I meant.

Being disallowed to use a trademark is generally decided by the courts because it relies on context. All I'm really saying is that "allow" and "disallow" are the wrong words to use in this context. Using the trademark word within class 9 could well result in a costly lawsuit. Outside of the specific class it is registered for is another matter.

It would be very unwise to use the word (without specific permission) in a domain name or as a brand name in any way associated with software and computers.

 

[Suzanne O]

You should probably have read the novel in order to understand what I was saying and what I meant.

Being disallowed to use a trademark is generally decided by the courts because it relies on context. All I'm really saying is that "allow" and "disallow" are the wrong words to use in this context. Using the trademark word within class 9 could well result in a costly lawsuit. Outside of the specific class it is registered for is another matter.

I agree with this too.
Copyright laws are ripe when stuff like that get mentioned.

 

[Deleted member 184953]

About 2 years ago, I created xenforo.fr a XenForo support forum in French.
Before purchasing the domain name I contacted the XF team via the ticket system to ask them if it was okay for me to purchase this domain name. They said it was no problem as long as I didn't try to pass myself off as the original. Subsequently I posted a notice on the forum indicating that I was not affiliated in any way with XenForo LTD, this notice was permanent, it was Kier who kindly offered to make it dismissible from users.

 

[Mr Lucky]

Before purchasing the domain name I contacted the XF team via the ticket system to ask them if it was okay for me to purchase this domain name. They said it was no problem as long as I didn't try to pass myself off as the original. Subsequently I posted a notice on the forum indicating that I was not affiliated in any way with XenForo LTD,

This is the perfect way to use a trademark that isn’t yours. It’s simple, just ask for and get permission.

 

[MentaL]

About 2 years ago, I created xenforo.fr a XenForo support forum in French.
Before purchasing the domain name I contacted the XF team via the ticket system to ask them if it was okay for me to purchase this domain name. They said it was no problem as long as I didn't try to pass myself off as the original. Subsequently I posted a notice on the forum indicating that I was not affiliated in any way with XenForo LTD, this notice was permanent, it was Kier who kindly offered to make it dismissible from users.

This Kier guy sounds like an evil person.

/sarcasm.

WD to the team for their kindness.

 

[Jake70]

This is the perfect way to use a trademark that isn’t yours. It’s simple, just ask for and get permission.

Not really, the domain is open and using FR has no bearing on the domain .com

 

[Kirby]

Xenforo is clearly a uniquely created word, like Coca Cola. If a car company called Xenforo is started, Xenforo LTD would likely win a case against them.

I am not familiar with UK laws, but I am pretty sure your scenario would not be thaat easy to judge by German / EU laws.

(Unless XenForo Ltd. also had a trademark registered for a class relating to cars of course).

Real world example for the same trademark used without conflict in entirely disjunct clssses:

Linux (Waschmittel) – Wikipedia

de.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Forsaken]

Some more fun updates:

An ex-Wordpress Incident Response Team member made a post regarding the change to the Code of Conduct that was changed to prevent leaking of DM's with Matt: https://wpfusion.com/business/regarding-our-cease-and-desist-letter-to-automattic/

There was some issues with PODS due to Scott Clark being banned from Wordpress.org (for stepping away from Fields API in protest of Matt):

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WPFusion sent a C&D to Automattic and Wordpress.com to have them remove their product from their customer-only repo:

Regarding our Cease and Desist letter to Automattic | WP Fusion

To start, if you haven't heard about the #wpdrama that's taken over WordPress in the last month, congratulations 😊. I imagine you've had a…

wpfusion.com

Several other developers have also done similar, but I do not know if they've heard back or if they've already been pulled. There are also people who regularly submit CVE that are now not planning to work with Automattic, Wordpress or any associated companies related to Matt (waiting to see how large this gets)... Not that Automattic pays much for bounties anyways .

 

[Suzanne O]

When i was asked to set up my own forum by a mate of mine who runs bigfooty i had to do a lot of asking of questions so that i wasn't entirely copying everything.
When it got to the stage of talking about other forums i had to ask if it was ok here too. So i submitted a ticket and got the answer i was after.
I can see why a particular C&D letter was sent out to those other pests who have issues with xenforo and their staff.
They couldn't be bothered to do the hard yards of asking for permission to speak about this great site.

 

[Suzanne O]

Not really, the domain is open and using FR has no bearing on the domain .com

Think of it as you being impersonated. Now we see that you have the tm at the end of your username.
Imagine if somebody else liked being called Jay and you got upset at them for using it as a username.

Just like if you were on social media. Everyone gets impersonated on there by others because they either hate them or think picking on somebody is funny.

 

[badmonkey]

XF is so worried about people confusing literally any other site with their own that they include a logo in the stock install. The logo says nothing more and nothing less than "Xenforo".

 

[MySiteGuy]

I am not familiar with UK laws, but I am pretty sure your scenario would not be thaat easy to judge by German / EU laws.

I think if Linux was a commercial entity that deeply cared about protecting their mark, that page would be quite different. A product called Mercedes-Benz Ice Cream would last before they found themselves in court?

Read up on the Lenovo case brought by Mercedes-Benz over a three pointed star.

 

[MySiteGuy]

XF is so worried about people confusing literally any other site with their own that they include a logo in the stock install. The logo says nothing more and nothing less than "Xenforo".

A non-sequitur.

What Xenforo does is no different from a car company when they put their logo on one of the cars they built. The logo on the car gives you no rights over the trademark. Packaging the software with their logo does not give the site any rights over the logo beyond what the license agreement says.

 

[badmonkey]

The logo on the car gives you no rights over the trademark. Packaging the software with their logo does not give the site any rights over the logo beyond what the license agreement says.

It gives me the right to drive around with it in full public display. Thanks for helping me prove my point.