Waindigo Enterprises Ltd to cease trading

[Jon W]

A message from Jonathan Wainwright:

A decision has been made for Waindigo Enterprises Ltd to cease trading later today (17 July 2014).

All add-ons and branding rights are being transferred to the Waindigo Foundation, a registered charity. As such, there will be no change to the add-ons available to download from XenForo Resource Manager and the charity will continue to benefit from commercial licensing fees coming from the add-ons.

A new company, Waindigo Ltd, has been formed as a 100% subsidiary of the Waindigo Foundation. This new company, will provide bespoke add-on development and support services. Waindigo Ltd is an entirely new company and will not take on any legal responsibility from Waindigo Enterprises Ltd.

I am keen that no customers will lose out as a result of this change, or even notice anything different at all.

In the interim period, any outstanding work will be taken on by the Waindigo Foundation. I will be volunteering full-time for the Waindigo Foundation for the next 2 weeks to clear the majority of this work, alongside Dom who will be paid by the charity. It is not anticipated that there will be any delays to work being performed as a result of this change. Any existing customers of Waindigo Enterprises Ltd who have specific concerns should make contact in the usual way.

I am happy to answer any questions or concerns that anyone has here, although please do bear in mind that this is a sensitive situation and there are a number of creditors involved (mostly banks), any of which may choose to legally challenge this move.

I am very hopeful that Waindigo will now be much stronger than before, no longer strangled by debts, the majority of which were built up in the earlier years of XenForo when there was considerable uncertainty about XenForo's future.

If anyone would like to support, please consider donating to the Waindigo Foundation. Donations can be made by Paypal:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=D3BV3B5US6F4W

Thanks for all your support and I hope that Waindigo will be able to continue to serve the XenForo community for many more years to come.

 

[Lisa]

Ummmm what's the charity raising money for?

 

[Jon W]

Ummmm what's the charity raising money for?

Thanks for your question. The activities of the Waindigo Foundation are:

To advance the Christian faith for the benefit of the public by the instruction and edification of Christians, the care and Christian instruction of young people and children and the evangelisation of non-Christians.

 

[Lisa]

The evangelisation of non-Christians?

You mean preaching and attempting to convert them?

*backs away slowly*

 

[Jon W]

The evangelisation of non-Christians?

You mean preaching and attempting to convert them?

*backs away slowly*

Interesting that you picked up on that bit. Bad experience?

 

[Lisa]

Interesting that you picked up on that bit. Bad experience?

Not at all. Religous folks don't bother me. I just don't think preaching at people until they conform with your beliefs is a charitable thing... Live and let live... now that's the way for me Hence, why it's probably for the best if I back out of this discussion LOL

 

[whynot]

A decision has been made for Waindigo Enterprises Ltd to cease trading later today (17 July 2014).
...

A new company, Waindigo Ltd, has been formed as a 100% subsidiary of the Waindigo Foundation.
...

I am very hopeful that Waindigo will now be much stronger than before, no longer strangled by debts,

In short: Are you(Waindigo Enterprises Ltd) bankrupt?

 

[Jon W]

In short: Are you(Waindigo Enterprises Ltd) bankrupt?

Waindigo Enterprises Ltd is insolvent (companies don't go bankrupt, people do). Insolvent just means it has more debts than it has assets to pay those debts with.

I am not personally bankrupt.

 

[Lisa]

Waindigo Enterprises Ltd is insolvent (companies don't go bankrupt, people do). Insolvent just means it has more debts than it has assets to pay those debts with.

I am not personally bankrupt.

Doesn't that sorta suggest that opening a new "charity" is just a way to get out of those debts?

 

[Jon W]

Doesn't that sorta suggest that opening a new "charity" is just a way to get out of those debts?

It is not a requirement that the new company is related to a charity in any way.

The charity has existed since January 2013. It was decided at that time that if the company went under that the charity would take ownership of all the add-ons, as it earns all the income from commercial licenses relating to add-ons.

If it wasn't for the add-ons being owned by the charity, I could have just set up a new company that was owned by me.

 

[TJA]

Insolvency is the best way to run up debt then have it wiped and the company wound up, leaving you free from any personal responsibility. Thus allowing you to then trade under a different entity, by registering as a 'charity' allows you to qualify for a number of tax exemptions and reliefs on income and gains.

 

[Jon W]

Insolvency is the best way to run up debt then have it wiped and the company wound up, leaving you free from any personal responsibility. Thus allowing you to then trade under a different entity, by registering as a 'charity' allows you to qualify for a number of tax exemptions and reliefs on income and gains.

The new company does not get any additional tax exemptions because of the fact it is owned by a charity. It pays the standard rate of tax on all profits.

The charity only gets tax exemptions on donations it gets from commercial licenses and uses that income for charitable purposes.

 

[TJA]

The new company does not get any additional tax exemptions because of the fact it is owned by a charity. It pays the standard rate of tax on all profits.

The charity only gets tax exemptions on donations it gets from commercial licenses and uses that income for charitable purposes.

Not if you pay those taxable profits to the charity, you will then avoid paying any corporation tax.

 

[Jon W]

Not if you pay those taxable profits to the charity, you will then avoid paying any corporation tax.

Or I could just pay it to myself and then pay it to charity. The tax effect would be the same as I would then get the tax relief personally.

That the company is owned by a charity doesn't change anything. Any company that gives money to charity can claim tax relief on that amount.

 

[Mike Edge]

I'm a bit confused how you can be "strangled" in debt as a result of developing add-ons for xF. What overhead do you have that the rest of us do not that would cause such a thing? Even during the lawsuit era so to speak, people were still buying both licenses and add-ons, in fact if anything I think the market has dropped more since the law suit was won. I think more people were buying things even just to help add a positive vibe to the uncertainty of xF's future at that time.

 

[TJA]

Bit pointless doing that when all monies paid to the charity from your subsidiary company will be getting the tax relief anyway. Also at least with all your assets owned by the charity, if you mess up the new trading company they will be safe. By using the company to get the tax relief means you can pay yourself a bigger wedge

 

[kingston]

Honestly the 'how' I am not concerned with as much as the result. If the add-ons keep coming, if I can keep funding them to get made, and everything keeps getting delivered with a regularity that @Waindigo has been doing I am not overly concerned with inner workings (as long as you aren't breaking any child labor laws )

 

[Jon W]

I'm a bit confused how you can be "strangled" in debt as a result of developing add-ons for xF. What overhead do you have that the rest of us do not that would cause such a thing? Even during the lawsuit era so to speak, people were still buying both licenses and add-ons, in fact if anything I think the market has dropped more since the law suit was won. I think more people were buying things even just to help add a positive vibe to the uncertainty of xF's future at that time.

The company accounts are public record, so you are free to investigate them for yourself. I'm sure there are things I could have done better, and maybe I could have paid myself a bit less and lived a bit more frugally. This is not a decision I have taken lightly though, despite the obvious benefit of wiping off all the debt.

Also at least with all your assets owned by the charity, if you mess up the new trading company they will be safe.

That is the whole entire purpose. The assets have always been protected.

By using the company to get the tax relief means you can pay yourself a bigger wedge

How do you work that out? After tax, I can pay myself exactly the same in every scenario.

 

[TJA]

How do you work that out? After tax, I can pay myself exactly the same in every scenario.

I'll let you work that one out, many loopholes

 

[Jon W]

I'll let you work that one out, many loopholes

Perhaps an offshore bank account?