Lack of interest Upvote - Downvote Indicators

[Neutral Singh]

An observation: When I go to upvote a post, the arrow ( ^ ) is correctly pointing upwards...


But if I have a change of mind, I decide to undo the vote, even then the arrow is still pointing upwards, imho it should automatically indicate downwards to downvote from a logical point of view...

 

[Anatoliy]

Downvoting and taking back your vote are not the same thing.

agree )
and we can make a next step in our thinking if we agree that the one who already upvoted shouldn't see the up arrow as he doesn't have the right to use it any more.
true?
now he has right to take his vote back and also to vote against. he can do either one with one down arrow. right?
now in any case up arrow should appear for him. but those who just took his vote back should still see down arrow also, to be able to vote against.
and those who already voted against should see an up arrow only.
am I right or am I right? )

 

[beerForo]

now he has right to take his vote back and also to vote against. he can do either one with one down arrow. right?

No if you have voted up and click the down arrow it changes to downvote (-2) a removal is -1.

 

[Anatoliy]

No if you have voted up and click the down arrow it changes to downvote (-2) a removal is -1.

I'm sorry but I refuse to discuss how it is in Alice's Wonderworld. )
Too bad I closed my psychology forum due to covid impact. I had a group of schizophrenics who would play this vote game for weeks trying to find out consistent pattern. )))

 

[beerForo]

The arrows represent Yes and No. They are not buttons on a calculator. If you click Yes (Up) and it turns bold you would click it again to remove it because you may not agree with No (Down). But if you click No it will log your no vote.

 

[Mr Lucky]

There seems to be some misunderstanding here.

I don't think it's about the system, or the maths, or for me underestanding the difference between upvote, cancellation of vote or downvote, but about the presentation and how it can be a clearer and more intuitive interface for (the many) people who are not developers or who have not used sites that have this kind of presentation of a voting system.

The Youtube "system" is the same (no argument) just that the presentation is more intuitive for non-techy people.

I wish I was articulate enough to get that across, but I know my limits or when I am actually flogging a dead horse.

 

[beerForo]

There seems to be some misunderstanding here.

I don't think it's about the system, or the maths, or for me underestanding the difference between upvote, cancellation of vote or downvote, but about the presentation and how it can be a clearer and more intuitive interface for (the many) people who are not developers or who have not used sites that have this kind of presentation of a voting system.

The Youtube "system" is the same (no argument) just that the presentation is more intuitive for non-techy people.

I wish I was articulate enough to get that across, but I know my limits or when I am actually flogging a dead horse.

You have conveyed perfectly. If people are confused there is merit to the concern. I am sure they are working on something that would help those users while retaining the same logic as to not change it on those that agree with the way it currently works. That's what's driving them bonkers right now.

 

[Anatoliy]

There seems to be some misunderstanding here.

that's for sure. plus too many people have too much free time in their hands. )

 

[Mr Lucky]

while retaining the same logic as to not change it on those that agree with the way is currently works

Yes, it has to be the same logic because right now the logic of the system is fine, it should be the same as all the previous well tested, conventional and understood systems. It's just the interface and presentation that is a problem for me (and I know will be) my non-developer members.

 

[beerForo]

Agreed! Comprehension is the issue.

 

[Kirby]

agree )
and we can make a next step in our thinking if we agree that the one who already upvoted shouldn't see the up arrow as he doesn't have the right to use it any more.
true?

As pointed out before:
By using that logic we also shouldn't display the reaction a user has given on a post (as he can't give this reactionb again), yet this is being displayed and used to take the reaction back - just like on Facebook for example.
So I don't fully agree here.

 

[Taylor J]

agree )
and we can make a next step in our thinking if we agree that the one who already upvoted shouldn't see the up arrow as he doesn't have the right to use it any more.
true?
now he has right to take his vote back and also to vote against. he can do either one with one down arrow. right?
now in any case up arrow should appear for him. but those who just took his vote back should still see down arrow also, to be able to vote against.
and those who already voted against should see an up arrow only.
am I right or am I right? )

No, using the down arrow is down voting, not taking your vote back. They are 2 entirely different things.

Take this example for taking your vote back:

You see a suggestion, it is at 9 votes. You up vote it bringing it to 10. You decide you want to take the vote back and so you do, making the vote count go back down to 9.

Now an example of down voting:
You see a suggestion, it is at 9 votes. You up vote it bringing it to 10. You decide you want to actually downvote the suggestion instead now and do so, this would make the number go down to 8 (taking away your upvote would go to 9 then the down vote would bring it to 8).

 

[Anatoliy]

By using that logic we also shouldn't display the reaction a user has given on a post

I said that after I turned on the light, I don't need that option on a switch anymore. But I didn't say, that the light shouldn't stay turned on. )
Anyway, I give up. This game is not fun anymore. ))

 

[Anatoliy]

No

I completely and totally agree.

 

[beerForo]

finally

 

[Mr Lucky]

I can think of 3 differences:

1 Arrows rather than like/dislike icons (not a huge deal if it's easy enough to swap out the icons)
2 Vertically aligned (not a huge deal but I think there is a small psychological impact on the whole up/down debate)
3 Only one number on xenforo , ie the difference rather than showing the actual number of like & dislike. This is the big one that people do/will find confusing as it doesn't immediately re;ate to what they just did, unlike with the Youtube example.

Together it adds up to not being as user friendly or intuitive as I would like. But I don't wish to be selfish, ultimately I'll accept the will of the people

All of these points are entirely irrelevant.

I agree they are not relevant to the maths and the underlying system of voting, vote cancellation and vote counting, but relevant to the user experience and how the general public who aren’t developers understand what is happening and how to interact with it. The underlying system is perfect IMO.

 

[Anatoliy]

I agree they are not relevant to the maths and the underlying system of voting, vote cancellation and vote counting, but relevant to the user experience and how the general public who aren’t developers understand what is happening and how to interact with it. The underlying system is perfect IMO.

I don't know if there is such a term in English as prof deformation. Doctors don't see things as non doctors, pilots see things different from not pilots, etc...

 

[Mr Lucky]

I guess that is why ad agencies and political parties have research or focus groups. To test things on the general public.

 

[Anatoliy]

I guess that is why ad agencies and political parties have research or focus groups. To test things on the general public.

Yep. )
I personally like ice cream, but when I go fishing, I take a can of worms with me. (c)

 

[Mr Lucky]

That. Is. Already. How. XenForo. Works.

All of these points are entirely irrelevant.

I now realise we were talking about different things.

It is true xenforo, Youtube, Stackexchange and (other voting systems) work exactly the same under the hood. Upvote, cancel vote, downvote do some sums. It's great and works perfectly IMO.

But I was under the impression the thread was about the indicators and UI rather than the underlying core mechanism.

I'm only talking about the way it's presented in the user interface, and the Youtube interface makes it much clearer to the casual user how what is going on.

So if somebody erroneously but understandably thought the down arrow would remove their vote, and get confused by the number of votes dropping by 2, on Youtube they can immediately see 1 vote was taken of the likes and 1 vote added to the dislikes.

Even more useful for them as the button is a thumbs down icon that can only mean one thing, not merely a downward arrow that could mean down by one increment e.g. remove the vote I just added or (they finally realise) it must mean remove it and downvote, hence the initially confusing (if they haven't used Stackexchange) drop by 2.

.

and

 

[Neutral Singh]

I'm only talking about the way it's presented in the user interface.

Exactly my point!