ThemeHouse and Audentio Design

[Jake B.]

I'm all for new features and things. But what concerns me also is they continue to add new things and so forth with a lot on their plate they are falling behind on things many of us already spent money on, like styles for example.. All styles other then UI.X itself is still on 1.5.0, missing 1.5.1, 15.2 and now released 1.5.3 updates with promises for months now that they will be updated soon, they are resolving bugs.. As a client that purchased several styles, unlimited domain license etc.. I'd much rather see the effort in developing this new "up vote" system being used to fix current issues rather then continuing to open new cans of worms. I'm sure many more would be willing to invest in new ideas once fate is restored in bug fixes we currently been waiting months on for products already purchased.

They are worked on by entirely separate people. You keep trying to make this point about add-ons having something to do with style releases, when you've been told multiple times this is not the case.

30 upvotes required = 30 x $30. wow...

It's a large feature, even that is highly discounted from what it normally would be.

 

[HWS]

It's a large feature, even that is highly discounted from what it normally would be.

You should not accept such requests when it is very clear that it won't happen. The max amount of upvotes for your "idea funding" should be limited to 10. Otherwise it could be correct to think that the real background for it is earning you money for nothing.

They are worked on by entirely separate people. You keep trying to make this point about add-ons having something to do with style releases, when you've been told multiple times this is not the case.

I (as your customer) also have the impression that the support and customer care has suffered significantly since you restructured your company and expanded your portfolio. I am also thinking about changing to PixelExit for styling our forum. We are waiting for a update to Rogue for a very long time. And the huge updates to UI.X are more and more buggy when released.

It would really help if you would get your new processes optimized soon. Does not look good currently from a customers perspective.

 

[Mike Edge]

They are worked on by entirely separate people. You keep trying to make this point about add-ons having something to do with style releases, when you've been told multiple times this is not the case.

Doesn't matter, it still reflects on the company as a whole and I know I'm not the only one that feels this way, so stop trying to single me out about it. Others have expressed it multiple times as well, yet I'm the only one that Mike claims "I'm out to get him" or "trolling him" which is not the case.. Just as your customer, I expect quality work for my buck, just as anyone would for any product. As of this month, I have allowed both my UI.X and UI.X Dark to expire, no point in paying currently for a style that continues to have more new bugs then fixes every update. Along with Antiquark and UI.X Flex Dark I let expire as well since it hasn't been updated in months with 3 new versions of xenForo releasing since. Rogue expires in Jan and I won't be renewing that either unless some positive change is shown and honestly at this point, I still don't know if I will, it might be just a little too late. This was a great company at one time, some of the best looking themes around, but I think getting also into add-ons hurt the company significantly.. Should have just simply stuck to what you did best, styles. It's now like if Apple moved into the Android market rather then just sticking to the products they made best.

 

[empire]

It's a large feature, even that is highly discounted from what it normally would be.

This really isn't for big features

The idea of paying for votes is interesting, but it is too risky for me as a customer. It doesn't make sense to risk losing $30 for something I could have developed for $50 or $100. For larger projects, I'd want to see real passion about the project, not simply 'here's a customer suggestion that we'll build if we're paid to.' I'd want to know why you are the ones to make this happen and how you see the add-on growing in the future.

It's an interesting experiment though, and I'll be curious to see if it's a successful model.

 

[Bionic Rooster]

All styles other then UI.X itself is still on 1.5.0, missing 1.5.1, 15.2 and now released 1.5.3 updates with promises for months now that they will be updated soon, they are resolving bugs.

I had this same go around with Jake the other day trying to find out changelogs that only had relevance to 1.5.3 that didn't benefit older styles stuck at 1.5.0.1 with a promise that updates are "coming soon" Well I was told that same thing for 1.5.1 updates and 1.5.2 updates that never materialized for other styles.

 

[Robust]

I think Audentio is growing out of its boots with the acquisition of Waindigo and Borbole (??????)'s stuff... It kinda floats out of your boat, and you're really just spilling liquid over your work right now. You're spoiling the reputation you built up. An 8 man team is *not* enough to manage over 300 add-ons and more styles efficiently.

You want my business advice? Change your ideas system to $1/token (credit to Robust, ty) with the ability to sponsor it to as many tokens as needed, make the Waindigo stuff under a subdivision of ThemeHouse. Keep them free. Yes, you won't profit, but tbh you shouldn't have took over Waindigo's stuff in the first place. Open source it under a license, if you want. Borbole... Well... No comment, I dunno what to do with that pickle. That's what you should do. What you choose to do is really up to do.

Don't clog your brand with this situation. I mean, I should just get on with my company but... yeah... Again - good luck.

 

[vbresults]

@Robust An 8 man team is more than enough if everyone using those add-ons and styles is paying fully for the ongoing time they ask from said team.

That's a pipe dream. So they balanced it, open sourced some add-ons and privatized others. They want things to work for both parties. Who makes acquisitions so they won't see a return, strange thing to suggest. Talked with borbole maybe 2 years ago and not at all surprised he left from what he said. Waindingo probably left, since, you know, they "won't profit" being here.

You see recurring complaints from admins here -- less add-ons, waves of add-ons being unsupported and/or abandoned, crowdfunding blunders, everything made by a handful developers, etc. These all point to one thing. The developers are burning out, tired of the "take 7 give 3" [or give 0] mentality. TH has the most resources here, bad idea to play that game with them.

 

[vij]

You see recurring complaints from admins here -- less add-ons, waves of add-ons being unsupported and/or abandoned, crowdfunding blunders, everything made by a handful developers, etc. These all point to one thing. The developers are burning out, tired of the "take 7 give 3" [or give 0] mentality. TH has the most resources here, bad idea to play that game with them.

90% of forums don't make any money or make very little. That's the forum market.
I am not sure what you are referring to. Customers pay the sticker prize in full and are asked to pay for updates which again we do. What do you mean by customers take 7 give 3?

 

[Robust]

@Robust An 8 man team is more than enough if everyone using those add-ons and styles is paying fully for the ongoing time they ask from said team.

For over 300 products. It's possible, sure, but I wish the best of luck accurately maintaining them, especially since not all 8 are PHP developers. My guess is about 3 are, but I'm not sure exactly. Good luck updating all them in a timely manner when XF 2.0 comes out...

That's a pipe dream. So they balanced it, open sourced some add-ons and privatized others. They want things to work for both parties. Who makes acquisitions so they won't see a return, strange thing to suggest. Talked with borbole maybe 2 years ago and not at all surprised he left from what he said. Waindingo probably left, since, you know, they "won't profit" being here.

I run businesses outside of XF. Sure, nobody makes acquisitions to not see a return. Problem here is, these are two acquisitions that shouldn't have been made. Waindigo had an excellent bunch of stuff, and obviously with his "free add-ons, subscribe for complete branding removal" didn't work out for the guy. I think it's a bit harder to acquire paid add-ons and make them paid and expect people to get them instead of using the existing versions for the remainder of the 1.x branch.

Borbole, well, he's an exception from anything for many reasons. He worked with ******* for a large time until he was banned from here which is where their relationship ended, afaik. I don't think he made little money. ******* was rolling in cash.

Waindigo, well I already commented, he was a nice guy for so much work and it all being free, but his hope of people subscribing probably didn't work all too well as expected.

You see recurring complaints from admins here -- less add-ons, waves of add-ons being unsupported and/or abandoned, crowdfunding blunders, everything made by a handful developers, etc. These all point to one thing. The developers are burning out, tired of the "take 7 give 3" [or give 0] mentality. TH has the most resources here, bad idea to play that game with them.

I get what you mean by developers burning out, of course they are. I personally think people here undercharge hugely. PixelExit's prices are *ridiculously* low. Audentio, even, isn't charging too much last I checked. Add-ons here and there are pretty cheap too. Some are wayyy too overpriced though and still get buys. With the minority being an exception, developers are underpaid here. They make most of their earning from custom work.

"take 7 give 3" [or give 0] mentality
^ what does that mean?

What game with TH? Of course they have most the resources here when they bought out the brand that had most the resources here... I mean... Lightbulb. I'm not playing a game with TH. I just, personally, have to criticise them with their acquisitions and the way it was played around. TH products system is spammed with Waindigo's decent add-ons republished for $10 and further updates. Personally, as a customer, that puts me off, but y'know.

 

[Dad.]

We are held to pricing standards of average hobbyists. Many other theme designers are hobbyists or freelancers, we do this full time. If you want your theme done by someone who does not have an office, barely supports or updates their products if at all, have not been established for a long time (we've been around ten years), there you will find cheaper prices and cheaper quality. I really do not feel it is fair that our prices should be always criticized, we are a team of 8 people, many of whom have families, aspirations of making more than minimum wage, software expenses, hardware expenses, health insurance, office space, rent/mortgages, etc. We are providing a service to the community and you do not ever have to buy our products if you feel our prices or structure is unfair.

But I warn you that holding new companies to the same regard as hobbyists and freelancers will be harmful to this community, developers will leave if the market does not suit them or if they are attacked at every single turn.

If anyone has any concerns about pricing of anything we do, please do message us. We're more than happy to go into detail if we are needed to.

 

[Steve F]

@Mike Creuzer, I don't think you realize how arrogant you sound in your last reply. You're basically insulting every single person that submits a design here. You are so far off with your statements it's sickening to read it.

I wasn't going to reply to this thread even though I had my own opinions about the idea funding deal but your last message has invited me to share my opinion. You may want to have the facts before making such a broad statement.

I will say this though, my opinion is you're trying to stick a foot in a shoe that doesn't fit. Try your hardest to make it fit though.

 

[Dad.]

@Mike Creuzer, I don't think you realize how arrogant you sound in your last reply. You're basically insulting every single person that submits a design here. You are so far off with your statements it's sickening to read it.

I wasn't going to reply to this thread even though I had my own opinions about the idea funding deal but your last message has invited me to share my opinion. You may want to have the facts before making such a broad statement.

I will say this though, my opinion is you're trying to stick a foot in a shoe that doesn't fit. Try your hardest to make it fit though.

The fact of the matter is that we keep being brought down by people wanting things for free. I don't know how else to argue the point that it just cannot be done. You can argue that a business cannot survive in XenForo. But we are going to try.

On the contrary, we are defending the many developers who have left.

 

[Steve F]

I wasn't saying a business can't survive, we've been doing it for around 4 years now. Although myself I have offline responsibility as well.

 

[Dad.]

Anyways, we heard what you guys were saying on the idea funding. First of all, it is a bad name. I don't know how else to word 'small add-on request' without it being kind of long and hard to word. Suggestions are welcome

Changes:

• You can easily see the number of upvotes required on the index page
• Filtering to any one of our add-ons (and soon themes) is easier now, not just a huge select menu
• A percentage of complete can be seen when hovering the upvotes

Here is a screenshot of the changes.

 

[Dad.]

I wasn't saying a business can't survive, we've been doing it for around 4 years now. Although myself I have offline responsibility as well.

It isn't my intention to hurt feelings, Im sorry if I did. But some are claiming we need to bring down the price of our work, I am simply defending that they are as low as they possibly can be already.

 

[Robust]

If you want your theme done by someone who does not have an office, barely supports or updates their products if at all, have not been established for a long time (we've been around ten years), there you will find cheaper prices and cheaper quality.

Audentio is a large company, but I feel like you're playing the monopoly game here. PixelExit, I'm not sure they have an office, @Arty and one other are some fine designers here too.

It isn't my intention to hurt feelings, Im sorry if I did. But some are claiming we need to bring down the price of our work, I am simply defending that they are as low as they possibly can be already.

I hope you don't refer to me with pricing, as I actually never once said you price high, rather the opposite. My only opposition here is the acquisition of the two brands, which is really not my business anyway but I just think you dug yourself a hole with that one, and also the idea funding - don't make it $30 for 1 upvote, that's why there's no upvotes on the site... Make it $1 for 1 token, and let a user buy tokens in batches of 10s, and you can add as many tokens as you want to an idea.

If you told me to invest $30 into a project for the possibility of it getting done, as 1 upvote, I'd say "damn, in the XF industry this will take quite some time..." - I think more explanation is also needed on this idea. A few comments and concerns were made over the last few pages that are still unanswered.

I will say this though, my opinion is you're trying to stick a foot in a shoe that doesn't fit. Try your hardest to make it fit though.

Laces do a darn good job at fitting, it slides around still but it fits to an extent y'know. Like if you fasten laces like you should, it provides the support to keep your foot still. Advice by the podiatrist

 

[The Grand Potentate]

The fact of the matter is that we keep being brought down by people wanting things for free.

Come on down from the cross Mike. Who is trying to bring you down by complaining about your pricing? Even a casual read through this thread would tell you that the overwhelming majority of questions have been over your new crowdfunding quasi-pyramid scheme and your recent acquisitions causing a drop in service. If you're trying to relate pricing to your recent addition of new charges to once free addons, well, that's a completely different can of worms, and even in that, the people weren't trying to "bring you down". They were just trying to understand your often mysterious decisions.

Anyways, we heard what you guys were saying on the idea funding. First of all, it is a bad name. I don't know how else to word 'small add-on request' without it being kind of long and hard to word. Suggestions are welcome

Changes:

• You can easily see the number of upvotes required on the index page
• Filtering to any one of our add-ons (and soon themes) is easier now, not just a huge select menu
• A percentage of complete can be seen when hovering the upvotes

Here is a screenshot of the changes.View attachment 123245

Uhhhh. I'm not sure you actually heard the people screaming the loudest because this doesn't address what will happen to people's money if the feature isn't fully funded.

It isn't my intention to hurt feelings, Im sorry if I did. But some are claiming we need to bring down the price of our work, I am simply defending that they are as low as they possibly can be already.

 

[Gossamer]

Quick question.

If I were to purchase an upvote for the purpose of contributing to a particular idea, what happens if that idea never gets enough votes to develop it? Let's say two months go by, there's no sign development has started, and nobody else has expressed interest in it. Would I be able to get a refund on my contribution?

 

[Dad.]

Audentio is a large company, but I feel like you're playing the monopoly game here. PixelExit, I'm not sure they have an office, @Arty and one other are some fine designers here too.

On the contrary, we are quite small with respect to web development companies as a whole. And Im not comparing us to any other designer when it comes to the product, merely the cost related to the product. Im a fan of Artys work as well honestly, and many others. Im just arguing that those who wish to move forward keep getting arguments that claim we should compete with hobbyists. Im simply arguing that is not be fair.

I hope you don't refer to me with pricing, as I actually never once said you price high, rather the opposite. My only opposition here is the acquisition of the two brands, which is really not my business anyway but I just think you dug yourself a hole with that one, and also the idea funding - don't make it $30 for 1 upvote, that's why there's no upvotes on the site... Make it $1 for 1 token, and let a user buy tokens in batches of 10s, and you can add as many tokens as you want to an idea.

$1 a vote was our original plan. But that would take a lot of upvotes to fund anything. And to be fair we do a lot of ideas for free as is, this is a way for the ones that we don't have time for to be heard.

If you told me to invest $30 into a project for the possibility of it getting done, as 1 upvote, I'd say "damn, in the XF industry this will take quite some time..." - I think more explanation is also needed on this idea. A few comments and concerns were made over the last few pages that are still unanswered.

I know I've missed some of the posts, will go back to read them. Its a good point, and we're going to figure out a solution that works best.

Laces do a darn good job at fitting, it slides around still but it fits to an extent y'know. Like if you fasten laces like you should, it provides the support to keep your foot still. Advice by the podiatrist

 

[n00bsaibot]

Quick question.

If I were to purchase an upvote for the purpose of contributing to a particular idea, what happens if that idea never gets enough votes to develop it? Let's say two months go by, there's no sign development has started, and nobody else has expressed interest in it. Would I be able to get a refund on my contribution?

lol that's the question everyone wants answered.