The obligatory "Go XenForo!" thread

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But maybe they are putting the finishing touches on a new release and don't want to tell us until they release it....trying to optimistic.
Nothing to be optimistic about right now.

Nothing has been said (officially) confirming or denying a settlement - thus we cant assume one has been reached.
 
I read this differently...that, outside of the lawsuit, vB.com's use of vB5 Connect is the nail in the coffin. (Seriously, the site is incredibly slow, confusing to use, and a mockery of good forum software...that's my opinion).

I don't expect anything to come from the settlement. I don't see any "bridge" between the parties positions on the merits. I could be wrong and maybe there is an offer that comes that is so favorable to XF that they accept. But, absent that, I don't think a settlement is in the offing. I could be wrong. As I sit here, I am just an arm-chair quarterback.

None of this changes my view that in the end XF is going to prevail.
This was my opinion too...

But my assumption based on the history of the case (I believe it has been stated that IB have made many attempts to settle with terms that were not acceptable so were refused by XF) was that these settlement talks would be over pretty quickly.

I assumed that IB would make similar settlement offers as before with XF refusing. With maybe an offer made by XF that would equally be refused by the other side.

Yet, yesterday was the 3rd session of settlement talks.

There must have been something to talk about for that long. There must have been some sort of progress made between the two. I would have thought if there wasn't the magistrate or whoever would have scrapped settlement talks on the first or second day.

I dunno. I know nothing about all this stuff... but I can't imagine they spent 3 days in a room together twiddling their thumbs.


Keep in mind: IF the outcome would be an "all win", I'll assume KAM will notify us within a minute. Not notifying us of the outcome likely means we -the customers- won't be very pleased about it.
I would actually not expect KAM to make an announcement until they had some short and long term plans about the future of XenForo. I'd much rather hear "It's over and here's what happens next" than just "It's over... we have no idea what happens next".
 
The chance that vB5 being put on the main vB site yesterday likely has absolutely bugger all to do with the case.


See, i'm not one who usually buys into these conspiracy theories... far from it... but given how obviously rushed out this is... something is up...

If I had to theorise, id suggest they are trying to push out a gold release before the lawsuit is over to try and capture as many sales as possible before people realise XF is in the clear and can switch to it... heck, that may even be part of the settlement agreement, that they get to release 5.0 gold in X timeframe before an official announcement from either party is made...

But I digress, and speculation gets us nowhere, just wait for PACER.
 
Yet, yesterday was the 3rd session of settlement talks.

There must have been something to talk about for that long. There must have been some sort of progress made between the two. I would have thought if there wasn't the magistrate or whoever would have scrapped settlement talks on the first or second day.

I dunno. I know nothing about all this stuff... but I can't imagine they spent 3 days in a room together twiddling their thumbs.

That's my view, you don't spend so long on settlement talks for nothing. Unless they was sharing Easter Eggs for 3 days...?
 
Not trying to sharpshoot you or pick a fight. Just stating my experience (across several courts and different venues...a caveat is that local practice may vary).

Firstly pacer updates arent quick - probably wont hear anything on pacer till next week.
As a regular PACER filer (actually, PACER is just the reporting mechanism...Electronic Court Filing (ECF) is that actual input mechanism), once you hit "submit", you normally get a response/confirmation email within seconds. Not sure if you mean the time to get output or the time until it is updated...but the system is not slow. The lag, if any, is with the actual filing of whatever documents.

Secondly for all we know the talks are ongoing
True. No one knows the parties actual positions, except for the parties themselves. But, from the filings, nothing suggests that the parties' positions are close enough to suggest an actual settlement. Could be wrong, though.

Thirdly, there are no ways of looking at it - you'd be very naieve to have expected something to be posted by now. It's way too early days. The chance that vB5 being put on the main vB site yesterday likely has absolutely bugger all to do with the case.
Yes. Though, outside of the case, I don't think the public change to vB5 on vB.com bodes well for vB. I doubt that there is any relation between the use of vB5 on their main site and the lawsuit. But, I do think its abysmal performance and completely bad user experience (at least in my subjective view) does signal real problems for vBSI. I am not sure it is a nail in the coffin...but, it seems like it is a really bad omen for them.

We all know where everything is heading. IB will make a demand like XF shuts down, or is sold to them. XF will refuse and ask for all legal fees to be paid then walk away. Neither will come to a sensible arrangement, and we'll end up having it decided by the judge in March.
Mostly agree, except for the fact that if the judge does not rule in favor of XF outright, I think there will be a trial (date to be determined, but not to long off)....after the close of evidence, then I think the judge will rule in XF's favor (based on legal points), or if it goes to the jury, they will rule in XF's favor. Though, this is just my instinct. Anything could happen .

Suggesting that not hearing anything is bad is complete fud and will result in the closure of yet another thread.

Yup. Especially as to the silence meaning anything substantive.

The legal process can be VERY SLOW and GRINDING. People should understand that (even if they don't like it...it is in the nature of the beast).
 
Seeing as you know more about how the law system works than us, you being involved in it. Why do you think both parties have been asked to attend in person with their legal teams this time around on the 20th Feb, that's if there's nothing on the table to discuss with a settlement? So far KAM have not been going to California, probably due to expense involved no doubt. So why are they suddenly going in person after the 13th and 14th talks took place, what makes things so different now that they need to be their themselves?
 
This was my opinion too...

Yet, yesterday was the 3rd session of settlement talks.

There must have been something to talk about for that long. There must have been some sort of progress made between the two. I would have thought if there wasn't the magistrate or whoever would have scrapped settlement talks on the first or second day.

You would be surprised by the ridiculous reasons for delays or continued hearings. I would not read anything into this.
There must have been something to talk about for that long.
It could mean something, or it could mean nothing. I would place zero substantive implications on the delays. I would disagree that there was "must have been something" to talk about. There might have been. But, delays, adjournments, continuations, etc., can happen for reasons that have nothing to do with the substance of the discussions.
 
Seeing as you know more about how the law system works than us, you being involved in it. Why do you think both parties have been asked to attend in person with their legal teams this time around on the 20th Feb, if there is nothing on the table to discuss with a settlement? So far KAM have not been going to California, due to expense involved no doubt. Why are they suddenly going in person now after the 13th and 14th talks took place, what makes thing so different now that they need to be there?


I did not see any explicit requirement for personal attendance of the parties. My last understanding was that telephonic attendance was fine. (I did see some posts suggesting personal attendance...but my read was that this was an inference and I did not see personal attendance as a requirement; I could be wrong on this point- I may have missed a post. There are so many threads covering this topic, some closed, some active, and Shamil's original consolidated listing of updates seems to have died out. Hard to say for sure what the actual situation is unless there is some information/posts I am missing).

Normally, I would say, attendance of the parties is required to ensure that any agreement on settlement is actually agreeable to the parties. That is a common rule- that the attendees at any settlement/mediation/alternative dispute mechanism are actually authorized to settle on whatever terms. It makes little sense to hold a conference on settlement if no one is actually authorized to settle. (I have not come across this in my own practice- how this is dealt with in my experience is that prior to settlement discussions, I have to secure the maximum settlement terms I can commit to on behalf of my client(s)). My best guess, absent some other information, is that the "presence" will be by telephone/video conference. I could be wrong- I am just spit balling on this point as I never saw anything requiring personal attendance.
 
You may be right, I read it as though KAM was going to California in person this time with their legal team, same with IB.

Must have read it wrong then and you're correct.
 
Why do you think both parties have been asked to attend in person


They haven't, I have no idea where people got this idea from. KAM were already granted by the court the ability to be present by telephone/teleconference in lieu of personal attendence.
 
@jadmperry:
From your experience, can you guess how much only the trial will cost for XenForo per day?
Given the arguments of both sides from the pacer documents a trial may take several weeks.
 
After reading this thread, I've just had a quick look at the IB-vB forum and even if I will never use this script again, I don't find it slow. To be honest, the pages are displaying quite fast for me. They might have upgraded their server too (I don't think the db requests have been reduced that much). Anyway... who cares.

Back to the topic, let's wait next week to see what happens. XenForo doesn't need only to win, IB must also be ordered to bear the costs of the proceedings. An other question is: are KAM and Robert Brisco going to make their appearance in one episode of the season 3 of Suits...?
 
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They haven't, I have no idea where people got this idea from. KAM were already granted by the court the ability to be present by telephone/teleconference in lieu of personal attendence.

Can you really confirm that neither Kier nor Mike are in California currently? Just curious...
 
They haven't, I have no idea where people got this idea from. KAM were already granted by the court the ability to be present by telephone/teleconference in lieu of personal attendence.


Well that's different then, I couldn't get my head around WHY they are now going to California. Not unless to sign something agreed with a settlement on the 13th and 14th talks, and the 20th would be to finalize things, why both parties was turning up in person with their legal teams.
 
@jadmperry:
From your experience, can you guess how much only the trial will cost for XenForo per day?
Given the arguments of both sides from the pacer documents a trial may take several weeks.

No, I have no idea. Legal fees are famously variable, especially with big firms (you will find that time is calculated strangely- i.e., often in six or ten minute increments...pick up the phone and talk for 45 seconds? Bill six or ten minutes. Inject into the fray variable fees for paralegals, associate attorneys, extra or enhanced fees for in court appearance, etc., and you can see fantastic or reasonable fees). The entire legal profession in the US is undergoing a huge transformation in billing practices. There could be specified flat fees, hourly fees, or contingency fees (though, in this case, I doubt there is a contingency fee based agreement). I can tell you that it would not be cheap (though that is a relative term). That said, I think that a several week trial is probably wildly optimistic as to the length of time this case would take at trial. I base this mainly on the fact that the witnesses disclosed do not seem to have much to say that is relevant. Assuming (incorrectly, in my view), that all claims go forward, I can't conceive of why this case would take more than a few days if tried to a jury. Maybe a week. Several weeks? It could happen, but only if the defense and the judge are asleep at the wheel. I could be wrong, though.
 
See, i'm not one who usually buys into these conspiracy theories... far from it... but given how obviously rushed out this is... something is up...

nowadays, "Conspiracy Theorists" are actually called "Conspiracy Realists" ;)
 
Imagine if IB said they'll drop the suit if Kier and Mike helped them fix the abomination that is vB5. KAM's considering it, discussing it, thinking about it, offering advice here and there, jk but that's what I would've asked for out of the settlement if I were IB on some 'come on guys come fix our mess so we can put this behind us then you can go do your own thing. Pleeaaasssee???'
 
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