Stay safe DigitalPoint.

[Daniel Hood]

Good people CAN change. Good people can do bad things or illegal acts. Just because they did a lot of good in the past for others, doesn't negate their current or future bad deeds.

So doing one bad thing (he's being charged with 1 count), makes you a "bad person" in your book regardless of the rest of his life prior to that?

In addition, you know that this "bad deed" is neither current nor future; it's years in the past.

I'm not trying to argue how good of a person he is though, I'm not even trying to plea his innocence. Frankly, I don't care about his innocence and neither should you. His crime didn't effect me in the least, he didn't really hurt anybody, maybe he got some money he shouldn't have but that has nothing to do with us.

All I know about him is, he's a good programmer who got rich doing affiliate marketing, and he spends a lot of time helping people out. Providing them tools, scripts, advice, etc... he doesn't need to make an add on and sell it for $50 here, he's obviously not in a position where he needs $50. He must do it for something else, like enjoying helping people.

I refuse to hate on him over something that happened years ago. And it's really not surprising that people on xF are showing support and acting like they'll miss him, he does some good things for the community. So, maybe try stepping off your high horse and recognizing that just because the US government says somebody did something bad doesn't make them a bad person. I'm sure you or someone in your inner circle (that in your mind is a good person), has done something that warrants a run in with the law at some point of their life. Maybe they didn't get rich from it but does that really make them better?

 

[TPerry]

Should he be praised as a Hero or a victim of government? No. Since he knowingly did stuff he knew might be bad/grey and got rich off of it. He's no victim to anything and I wish people could see how sad they look praising him. He did good work for XF & VB....doesn't change the fact he is a criminal.

So, according to you there are no innocent people in prison/convicted of crimes?

I simply gave my opinions. I apologize if my mindset doesn't follow and fit in with the pack mentality of the community

Once you get some "age" on you and you have more life experiences I think your eyes will be opened.
Not everyone convicted of a crime is guilty - not everyone that accepts a plea bargain is guilty.

 

[digitalpoint]

Should he be praised as a Hero or a victim of government? No. Since he knowingly did stuff he knew might be bad/grey and got rich off of it. He's no victim to anything and I wish people could see how sad they look praising him. He did good work for XF & VB....doesn't change the fact he is a criminal.

I wouldn't *want* to be praised as a hero or victim, because I'm neither. But you are mistaken about a few things there...

1. I knew the stuff I did that eBay was asking me to do was grey. As in I knew it violated their terms of service. Did I know it was illegal? No. When someone asks you to do something that ultimately only violates their *own* terms of service, I certainly thought it was super weird (and I had discussions with eBay about exactly that), but I didn't think it was illegal. There actually was some stuff eBay asked me to do that I *did* know was illegal, for example figure out a way to take out Google data centers (and that stuff I absolutely refused to do because I wanted nothing to do with it).
2. Did I get rich off it? Definitely not. It's cost me somewhere around 20x what the original gain was.
3. I'm definitely not a victim... and to be honest, I think the biggest victim here is the US government. Personally, I think they were mislead at least a little bit by eBay and were used to help settle what ultimately should have been a civil suit. Of course that's just my personal opinion, and obviously I'm going to see things differently.

As far as being a "criminal", yes... in the eyes of the US government, I plead guilty to one count of wire fraud, which correlates to one person in another state being forced to click an ad. What I plead guilty to amounted to a grand total of $0 gained. More info on that here: http://13411-111.com/2014/05/what-exactly-is-wire-fraud/

 

[Carlos]

Pretty sure you have a bigger chance of getting beat up or raped walking down the street in a good neighborhood than you do in federal minimum security prison.

Um. I disagree here, there's a small chance you'd get "raped" for walking down the street in a *good* neighborhood. Most good neighborhoods are "friendly" folks. It's the bad ones (bad people, bad community, bad neighborhood) you need to worry about. It's much worse in the ghetto, where beat ups are the norm. You'd be lucky to walk scotts free. Some people don't bother you because they don't see you as a threat, or you didn't do anything to them in the first place.

Since 2010, there have been a grand total of 5 "serious assaults" in minimum security federal prison. For purposes of rounding, let's call it 1 every 10 months... with 36,243 inmates.

That still doesn't negate the fact that there's a high chance of you getting beat, hurt, raped, or whatever. It depends on what you did, and who you are.

At that rate, I would suspect the ones that *were* assaulted probably were assaulted because of something they did/said (arguably they deserved it).

Yep. Exactly.

Assault in minimum security prison means you no longer get to be at camp, and they send you to a more "traditional" prison, so why would anyone assault anyone? Also, only people with non-violent histories go to camp.

Now, that's better.

Long story short, is I'd have a better chance of getting in a fight in a bar than I would in prison camp.

You need to stop thinking that way, sometimes people pick a fight with you.

I wouldn't *want* to be praised as a hero or victim, because I'm neither. But you are mistaken about a few things there...

Dude, I wouldn't bother arguing with Micah. He stirs arguments through innocent posts but incites arguments. I wounldn't bother.

We all know that you didn't want any part of this because it seemed a bit dirty (okay, a lot). We know that you're a nice person. We know the justice system is borked.

As a matter of fact, I had my own brush with the law, too. Most of them are dumb little arrests by dirty cops. I have a scab on my left kneecap to prove this.

 

[Sheldon]

I disagree here, there's a small chance you'd get "raped" for walking down the street in a *good* neighborhood. Most good neighborhoods are "friendly" folks. It's the bad ones (bad people, bad community, bad neighborhood) you need to worry about. It's much worse in the ghetto, where beat ups are the norm. You'd be lucky to walk scotts free. Some people don't bother you because they don't see you as a threat, or you didn't do anything to them in the first place.

That was the point Carlos.

 

[Sheldon]

As a matter of fact, I had my own brush with the law, too. Most of them are dumb little arrests by dirty cops. I have a scab on my left kneecap to prove this.

So, this was recently? I mean, eventually a scab heals, so this is within what, the last month?

 

[Cambion]

So doing one bad thing (he's being charged with 1 count), makes you a "bad person" in your book regardless of the rest of his life prior to that?

In addition, you know that this "bad deed" is neither current nor future; it's years in the past.

I'm not trying to argue how good of a person he is though, I'm not even trying to plea his innocence. Frankly, I don't care about his innocence and neither should you. His crime didn't effect me in the least, he didn't really hurt anybody, maybe he got some money he shouldn't have but that has nothing to do with us.

All I know about him is, he's a good programmer who got rich doing affiliate marketing, and he spends a lot of time helping people out. Providing them tools, scripts, advice, etc... he doesn't need to make an add on and sell it for $50 here, he's obviously not in a position where he needs $50. He must do it for something else, like enjoying helping people.

I refuse to hate on him over something that happened years ago. And it's really not surprising that people on xF are showing support and acting like they'll miss him, he does some good things for the community. So, maybe try stepping off your high horse and recognizing that just because the US government says somebody did something bad doesn't make them a bad person. I'm sure you or someone in your inner circle (that in your mind is a good person), has done something that warrants a run in with the law at some point of their life. Maybe they didn't get rich from it but does that really make them better?

What high Horse I am? guy is richer than me so How on earth can I be on a high horse or looking down at someone who is richer than me? get over yourself.

he's a good programmer and did great things. Awesome...truly it is.
Doesn't change the fact he partook in some shady stuff, got caught or whatever and now is labeled as a criminal.
Him being a good Samaritan and programmer has ZERO to do with his crime(s).

And no, I doubt anyone in my circle has, since I don't associate with people like that. Nobody is hating on him, but I find it hilarious people are using his unrelated work with XF/VB as a excuse as to why he is a "Good person".

Idk the guy to call him a bad person. I CAN say he is a criminal. It's fact.

So, according to you there are no innocent people in prison/convicted of crimes?


Once you get some "age" on you and you have more life experiences I think your eyes will be opened.
Not everyone convicted of a crime is guilty - not everyone that accepts a plea bargain is guilty.

What does my age have to do with anything? Like seriously. I don't need life experiences to know that. It's common sense.

just like noteveryone who is found innocent is in fact innocent.....OJ simpson anyone?


But in this case there obviously IS guilt thus he is a criminal/convict.

I wouldn't *want* to be praised as a hero or victim, because I'm neither. But you are mistaken about a few things there...

1. I knew the stuff I did that eBay was asking me to do was grey. As in I knew it violated their terms of service. Did I know it was illegal? No. When someone asks you to do something that ultimately only violates their *own* terms of service, I certainly thought it was super weird (and I had discussions with eBay about exactly that), but I didn't think it was illegal. There actually was some stuff eBay asked me to do that I *did* know was illegal, for example figure out a way to take out Google data centers (and that stuff I absolutely refused to do because I wanted nothing to do with it).
2. Did I get rich off it? Definitely not. It's cost me somewhere around 20x what the original gain was.
3. I'm definitely not a victim... and to be honest, I think the biggest victim here is the US government. Personally, I think they were mislead at least a little bit by eBay and were used to help settle what ultimately should have been a civil suit. Of course that's just my personal opinion, and obviously I'm going to see things differently.

As far as being a "criminal", yes... in the eyes of the US government, I plead guilty to one count of wire fraud, which correlates to one person in another state being forced to click an ad. What I plead guilty to amounted to a grand total of $0 gained. More info on that here: http://13411-111.com/2014/05/what-exactly-is-wire-fraud/

Shawn, my question to you is that if you claim to not know it was illegal and knew it was grey why not do you due diligence before doing these acts?

I mean no disrespect, I truly don't, but tracey amusingly brings my age up. Okay, Fine...I am nearly 19 years old and I don't have the "life experiences" most of you people have. I certainly don't have a criminal record nor will I. However, I do have common sense.

My question is if you KNEW it was grey, then why not do your research and find out more before doing these acts? It seems like to me(and this is just my opinion): you're calling ignorance on something that you could have potentially looked into more before doing them.

Grey means skirting the lines of right/wrong...legal and illegal and a man of your stature, I'd think you'd likely would have figured out which way it was leaning(legal or illegal) and thus might have prevented the misfortune of being labeled a criminal/convict for the rest of your life.

again, it just doesn't make sense to me. But you know "my age"...what do I know? LOL I have no common sense or intelligence Is what some people would say.

We all know that you didn't want any part of this because it seemed a bit dirty (okay, a lot). We know that you're a nice person. We know the justice system is borked.

As a matter of fact, I had my own brush with the law, too. Most of them are dumb little arrests by dirty cops. I have a scab on my left kneecap to prove this.

Carlos as always you amuse me

 

[Slavik]

I certainly don't have a criminal record nor will I. However, I do have common sense.

I didn't plan on getting a criminal record either, but have one.

What for you ask?

I picked up an offcut of gas pipe lying next to a path at a park and chucked it in a bin, in my eyes I was just helping keep the area where I live clean.

However unforutnately for me, a whole bunch of full length gas pipe had recently been nicked, so when CCTV caught me picking it up and walking off with this offcut, they found out who I was and arrested me for theft.

I even offered to appologise or pay for the replacement as my mistake was genuine, but feel the police were more interested in being able to tell the gas company they had "charged someone" so they could close the investigation to the real theft.

 

[Daniel Hood]

My bad. I didn't realize you were perfect

 

[digitalpoint]

Shawn, my question to you is that if you claim to not know it was illegal and knew it was grey why not do you due diligence before doing these acts?

I mean no disrespect, I truly don't, but tracey amusingly brings my age up. Okay, Fine...I am nearly 19 years old and I don't have the "life experiences" most of you people have. I certainly don't have a criminal record nor will I. However, I do have common sense.

My question is if you KNEW it was grey, then why not do your research and find out more before doing these acts? It seems like to me(and this is just my opinion): you're calling ignorance on something that you could have potentially looked into more before doing them.

Grey means skirting the lines of right/wrong...legal and illegal and a man of your stature, I'd think you'd likely would have figured out which way it was leaning(legal or illegal) and thus might have prevented the misfortune of being labeled a criminal/convict for the rest of your life.

again, it just doesn't make sense to me. But you know "my age"...what do I know? LOL I have no common sense or intelligence Is what some people would say.

I don't know how old you are and I definitely didn't make a reference to your age.

I'm not trying to use ignorance as a defense, nor did I ever make any excuses. I've always accepted responsibilities for my actions. I was simply stating facts about what brought about my "criminal activity".

The best analogy I can come up with would be something like this... Say someone you knew offered you $1,000 to throw a brick through a car that they owned. Before you agree, you question them about "why" and their response didn't make a whole lot of sense so you keep questioning them about it. Finally they tell you they are filming a hidden camera show or something that could at least make some sort of sense in your mind, so you agree and you do it. A year later the police show up at your place to arrest you because the person who asked you to do it didn't have the legal authority to ask you to do it. Because even though it was their car, the car was owned by the bank still. You vandalized bank property.

There really is no point in me being bent out of shape about it... what happened, happened. And you could spend the rest of your life placing blame on the person that asked you to do it or you can move on. {shrug} At the end of the day eBay paid me a lot of money for doing something that was very easy for me (I told them many times I would do what I was doing for 1% of what they were paying me), and no, I'm not talking about any "grey area" stuff.

 

[TPerry]

But in this case there obviously IS guilt thus he is a criminal/convict.

As I said ealier - and apparently it flew right over your head... not everybody that pleads out is guilty. Sometimes you have to look at the cost/benefit ratio of the plea.
If it's going to cost 1.5 million to defend against something and your net worth is 1.75 million... is it worth it or is spending 6 months in a camp a better decision.

And age has EVERYTHING to do with life experience. The longer you live/have lived, the more of them you have and the better position you are typically to see what really goes on.

I mean no disrespect, I truly don't, but tracey amusingly brings my age up. Okay, Fine...I am nearly 19 years old and I don't have the "life experiences" most of you people have. I certainly don't have a criminal record nor will I.

And that's the point... you could easily get one depending on the circumstances and how "clean" the charging authority is, your ability to hire a good lawyer to defend you and a few other factors.... all the while being innocent of the charge brought.

 

[Jeremy P]

Somebody being 'rich' and looking down on them aren't mutually exclusive. Not to pick straws at your argument or to say I disagree with it completely. Just saying, money is only one measure of wealth, and I think there are more riches to be had than money.

He is, in fact, criminal, but is a criminal necessarily equivalent to a wrongdoer? There's a correlation, but I would say no, of course not. That leaves whether or not Shawn is a wrongdoer open to interpretation. If you believe he is then that is fine. If I believe he's not then that's fine too. I won't attack your beliefs and I don't see it necessary to attack others.

In many people's eyes it probably comes down to how they view the justice system.

 

[Cambion]

My bad. I didn't realize you were perfect

Didn't you know? I am a perfectionist?

I didn't plan on getting a criminal record either, but have one.

What for you ask?

I picked up an offcut of gas pipe lying next to a path at a park and chucked it in a bin, in my eyes I was just helping keep the area where I live clean.

However unforutnately for me, a whole bunch of full length gas pipe had recently been nicked, so when CCTV caught me picking it up and walking off with this offcut, they found out who I was and arrested me for theft.

I even offered to appologise or pay for the replacement as my mistake was genuine, but feel the police were more interested in being able to tell the gas company they had "charged someone" so they could close the investigation to the real theft.

Ah, I see. Well in that circumstance that is pretty sucky. No grey area there. I have heard of something like that happening to a neighbor of mine.

 

[Slavik]

Didn't you know? I am a perfectionist?

Ah, I see. Well in that circumstance that is pretty sucky. No grey area there. I have heard of something like that happening to a neighbor of mine.

It's pretty grey, what happens if I put a crisp packet down and put my empty can of coke on it and leave them unattended, then someone comes along and picks them up and throws them away.

By the same rules I could charge those people for theft.

 

[Cambion]

Somebody being 'rich' and looking down on them aren't mutually exclusive. Not to pick straws at your argument or to say I disagree with it completely. Just saying, money is only one measure of wealth, and I think there are more riches to be had than money.

He is, in fact, criminal, but is a criminal necessarily equivalent to a wrongdoer? There's a correlation, but I would say no, of course not. That leaves whether or not Shawn is a wrongdoer open to interpretation. If you believe he is then that is fine. If I believe he's not then that's fine too. I won't attack your beliefs and I don't see it necessary to attack others.

In many people's eyes it probably comes down to how they view the justice system.

In many people's eyes from what I gather in this thread(and taz) is his past great deeds seem to hold more weight than his crime, which are two unrelated things.

Our justice system is flawed, lord knows it is, but the arguments most people have made to me are less about the justice system and more about what a good person he is and the bad choice(s) he made.

I am not attacking anyone for believing what they believe, I am in fact slightly appalled at the pack mentality or hive mind these people seem to have.

I am not looking down on him. I have no reason to. I simply called it like I see it and since I don't have devotion to XF/VB and I think I used like one thing from dp, I have no problem acknowledging his crimes and him as a convict.

@Tracy Perry I guess we differ there. I wouldn't want the label of convict staying with me for the rest of my life. My age has nothing to do with this topic anymore than yours or anyone elses.....I at nearly 19 have common sense to make better choices, apparently, the some people twice or three times my age.

I can see clearly....Guy does shady things and is now serving time for it Rabid fans surround anyone who sees it for what it is and get all defensive

and then said fans make threads like these.

 

[Cambion]

It's pretty grey, what happens if I put a crisp packet down and put my empty can of coke on it and leave them unattended, then someone comes along and picks them up and throws them away.

By the same rules I could charge those people for theft.

That's still not grey. you had no knowledge that what you were doing was wrong anymore than someone throwing a crisp packet and a can down.

Shawn admitted he knew it was grey what he was doing thus he is where he ended up at.

the two situations(yours and shawns) are different.

 

[TPerry]

@Micah Impulse, I don't know the man from Adam and only use one of his add-ons. I make no judgement on what he did... my point being that because something is alleged does not necessarily mean it is factual and that sometimes the battle is not worth the fight. We all were 19 once... and thought we knew more than we did (and when we got older we figured that out ).
It doesn't matter if you make "better choices" or not - just look at Slavik's incident... probably similar to what you would do (see trash laying out and pick it up and put it in a bin)... but wrong time, wrong place. Common sense doesn't always have anything to do with it.... there is a saying that cops have "You may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride". Any idea of what that is actually referring to?

 

[Cambion]

@Micah Impulse, I don't know the man from Adam and only use one of his add-ons. I make no judgement on what he did... my point being that because something is alleged does not necessarily mean it is factual and that sometimes the battle is not worth the fight. We all were 19 once... and thought we knew more than we did (and when we got older we figured that out ).
It doesn't matter if you make "better choices" or not - just look at Slavik's incident... probably similar to what you would do (see trash laying out and pick it up and put it in a bin)... but wrong time, wrong place. Common sense doesn't always have anything to do with it.... there is a saying that cops have "You may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride". Any idea of what that is actually referring to?

That is true and I do have a lot to learn, though I don't think my age still holds any meaning here. Trust me, I have quite a bit to learn but I am also far more advanced and unlike most 19 year olds.

and no, I have never heard the saying. Though I get what you mean by it.

 

[Jeremy P]

@Micah Impulse

I think the reason they're getting defensive is because the people who "see it like it is" are picking on their beliefs. It's not as if they were completely unprovoked. Why not agree to disagree?

It's one thing to say "I do not think Shawn deserves the condolences" and a whole nother to say "The people giving Shawn their condolences are silly blind fanboys." There's a bit of a jump there, no matter how clear it seems. A lot of people here seen him as a friend to the community and them giving him well-wishes and thinking he's a good person doesn't seem to imply they think he shouldn't be there in the first place.

If he committed a violent crime I would agree this would be silly, but I don't see this thread as anything more than people wishing a friend well as he serves his sentence. I wouldn't want to touch whether or not he "deserves" the sentence with a 10 foot pole... but I still wish him well.

 

[Cambion]

@Micah Impulse

I think the reason they're getting defensive is because the people who "see it like it is" are picking on their beliefs. It's not as if they were completely unprovoked. Why not agree to disagree?

It's one thing to say "I do not think Shawn deserves the condolences" and a whole nother to say "The people giving Shawn their condolences are silly blind fanboys." There's a bit of a jump there, no matter how clear it seems. A lot of people here seen him as a friend to the community and them giving him well-wishes and thinking he's a good person doesn't seem to imply they think he shouldn't be there in the first place.

If he committed a violent crime I would agree this would be silly, but I don't see this thread as anything more than people wishing a friend well as he serves his sentence. I wouldn't want to touch whether or not he "deserves" the sentence with a 10 foot pole... but I still wish him well.

Oh I mean I don't wish Shawn any ill will and I do wish him well, though threads like these are sort of "Praising him" which is bad taste, whether it was a crime against humanity, violent or something as simple as fraud/theft.

The hive mentality of the community is a bit stifling....and amusing. It is not a jump really since they proved themselves.

but perhaps I was a bit blunt, though I don't typically fit the mentality of the XF community as is already. Even as a client.