State of XF Coders

[king8084]

Good day !

anyone noticed how a lot of veteran coders stopped updating/maintain their mods and some even stopped posting

this really is sad, i hope this more coders keep coming in to keep XF platform creative

do you guys know the reason for this? or are they now just active in their own dedicated site which i admit i do not visit as much as xf.com

 

[whynot]

anyone noticed how a lot of veteran coders stopped updating/maintain their mods and some even stopped posting

They are all excitedly waiting for XF2.

 

[king8084]

They are all excitedly waiting for XF2.

this is actually a good point, you think that is the reason they are bothered to update anything for a while ?

 

[Joeychgo]

this is actually a good point, you think that is the reason they are bothered to update anything for a while ?

Probably. Why update a mod when your going to have to do a total rewrite in a month or two?

 

[whynot]

Why update a mod when your going to have to do a total rewrite in a month or two?

Or in a different cloth the mod will be included in the core?

 

[Chris D]

If that's the attitude, it's a somewhat dangerous tactic.

All developers should be ensuring their current version is stable, and releasing bug and security fixes as necessary. It's somewhat understandable not to be working on massive functionality updates, but to not maintain it at all will just tarnish your reputation and will frankly make people think twice about using your products in the future.

However, this is also the nature of the beast which, as far as I understand, is a common pattern throughout all platforms. You develop a product, you maintain it for a bit, real life happens and you disappear. This, in most cases, is the more logical explanation, and has been true for most of the more well known developers who have departed in recent years.

Also, anecdotally, when I last looked into it, 2015-2016 has so far been one of the busiest years in the Resource Manager with more updates and more new resources being posted than ever. It doesn't seem to me like that's on a decline.

Thankfully we have some very interesting and exciting times ahead in terms of XF development with XF 2.0 getting closer by the day. We're still on target for having a publicly accessible demonstration installation and the sooner we gather the feedback on that, the sooner we can get XF 2.0 in the hands of developers (and anyone else who is interested in playing with it) which, I have to say, is a generally far more enjoyable experience for developing than XF 1.x... and that's coming from someone who loved developing for XF 1.x.

 

[sbj]

But to be frank, I think XenForo has hurt itself with this announcement.
This announcement was made in July 2014.
Specially saying this:

We have already written some of the core code in order to test the viability of some of our architectural ideas, and we are excited by the progress we've made so far.

made it look like that 2.0 is waiting around the corner. I am not a developer but for me the impression was that in 2015 we'll see the release. So everybody (forum owners and devs) slowed their efforts in putting time into 1.x. But XF didn't release anything yet after 2 years past, and probably next summer we will see the gold release, when 3 years have been past.
I don't want to rant or something, but to be honest this process has a big portion of why we don't see much going on the past 2 years. At least this is how I feel it.

 

[Joeychgo]

If that's the attitude, it's a somewhat dangerous tactic.

Thankfully we have some very interesting and exciting times ahead in terms of XF development

You also have to keep in mind Chris... Similar promises were made by vBulletin --- I'm not saying XF will do the same things as VB did... In fact I highly doubt XF will have empty promises like vb did... But I bet there are some people with a 'wait and see' attitude, at least subconsciously.

This is a difficult time, for developers for site owners as well. I am faced with a decision right now where I have to either gamble that XF will have a particularly functionality built in, or take a safer route that isn't what I really want for my site. This is because we've been told virtually nothing of what may or may not be coming. Except of course that its 'exciting and interesting'.

Please understand, I'm not being critical or complaining. Just offering a little food for thought and discussion.

 

[Chris D]

I understand that.

We've already been quite open about the fact that we haven't laden 2.0 with lots of new functionality, but it really does open a lot of doors for us and third parties in terms of further development in the future. Obviously the upcoming demo installation which is happening in the coming months is the first opportunity to see it and use it in all its glory (from a user perspective) and this should answer most questions.

 

[whynot]

We've already been quite open about the fact that we haven't laden 2.0 with lots of new functionality, but it really does open a lot of doors for us and third parties in terms of further development in the future.

In short: It will be the same but different in many ways?

 

[Alteran Ancient]

I'll probably be shot by a lot of people for saying this, but I'd very much prefer the VALVe approach. If it isn't ready, don't push it out the door.

I'd love to see a release of XF2.0 as much as the next guy, sure, but I'd much rather wait for a better product.

 

[rainmotorsports]

this is actually a good point, you think that is the reason they are bothered to update anything for a while ?

Probably. Why update a mod when your going to have to do a total rewrite in a month or two?

But to be frank, I think XenForo has hurt itself with this announcement.
This announcement was made in July 2014.

A couple of the "major" coders that have gone missing are children in school right now and you wonder why they haven't update their free addons?

The majority of paid addon coders here would be out of business the moment they decided to stop supporting their 1.x addons and any that purposely stop supporting them now will lose reputation. Who the hell is going to buy from people who didn't support their crap the last 6 months? Plenty of new 1.x projects in development.

There have been people waiting for 2.0 since before 2.0 was announced. This doesn't really effect addon development and Xenforo is succesful so a few percent of sales being delayed probably isn't anyone elses concern but KAMC.

 

[Snog]

I have to say, is a generally far more enjoyable experience for developing than XF 1.x... and that's coming from someone who loved developing for XF 1.x.

If that's the case, I might be in heaven.

Coming from the 'other' software to XF was like a breath of fresh air and enjoyable. If XF 2 is more so, I may just have to break out in a dance.

From a developer standpoint, I still issue updates for bugs, etc. for 1.x add-ons. But, for the most part I've stopped adding features and they are frozen to fixes only (there a some exceptions). There will always be a 1.x market to support, and if that market disappears, then and only then would I drop support for 1.x.

 

[sbj]

A couple of the "major" coders that have gone missing are children in school right now and you wonder why they haven't update their free addons?

There have been people waiting for 2.0 since before 2.0 was announced. This doesn't really effect addon development and Xenforo is succesful so a few percent of sales being delayed probably isn't anyone elses concern but KAMC.

Your source? You know all of the "major" coders and all are children in school? Like who? Only ones I can think of is Liam and MrGoodie who are in that age.

Look one post below you what Snog said. It is defintely effecting addon development. That is the major case. Nobody's concern is that XF success is in danger or something.
We were just saying that there is a decline of the development community in XF.

 

[rainmotorsports]

Your source? You know all of the "major" coders and all are children in school? Like who? Only ones I can think of is Liam and MrGoodie who are in that age.

Look one post below you what Snog said. It is defintely effecting addon development. That is the major case. Nobody's concern is that XF success is in danger or something.
We were just saying that there is a decline of the development community in XF.

First off read what I said. A couple. How many is that? Did I say all? No. This is why we have a mess of threads in regards to information about development, 2.0, and many other things. People read what they want to read and then repeat it.

Notice how Snog says he is still issuing updates and bug support? That means he isn't even included in list of people who have stopped maintaining. Also while maybe not terribly clear. My reply in that part is in reference to "Xenforo has hurt itself". Xenforo only has 3 addon's. People who don't even own a license yet are out of scope into 3rd party addons at that point. They would be waiting for things that don't even exist in the least. I am speaking of the fact that a few delayed sales of licenses isn't a reason to quit providing support to addons, the reason behind this thread.

Sorry if I was unclear but I am responding to a very specific scope of statements.

 

[Snog]

Look one post below you what Snog said. It is defintely effecting addon development. That is the major case.

I think I need to clarify why I've frozen most of my 1.x add-ons and relegated them to bug fixes, etc..

Many of the requests for features would require a major rewrite of the code for the add-ons. In most cases I've made it abundantly clear that I wouldn't do that. Those features are reserved to possibly be added to the 2.x versions since they will most likely require a major rewrite anyway.

 

[sbj]

First off read what I said. A couple. How many is that? Did I say all? No. This is why we have a mess of threads in regards to information about development, 2.0, and many other things. People read what they want to read and then repeat it.

Notice how Snog says he is still issuing updates and bug support? That means he isn't even included in list of people who have stopped maintaining. Also while maybe not terribly clear. My reply in that part is in reference to "Xenforo has hurt itself". Xenforo only has 3 addon's. People who don't even own a license yet are out of scope into 3rd party addons at that point. They would be waiting for things that don't even exist in the least. I am speaking of the fact that a few delayed sales of licenses isn't a reason to quit providing support to addons, the reason behind this thread.

Sorry if I was unclear but I am responding to a very specific scope of statements.

Well, you still didn't give any names... And I didn't mean to say that you meant "all", I admit my phrasing was not correct. You said that a couple of the major coders are missing because of school. But for you to know who is major and who not, you need to know "all" or else how will you know who is major and who not. Anyway. My point is, who is missing because of school? A couple is still a big amount when you consider there are handful of active coders around. You are talking in vague direction.

And I didn't claim that Snog is included in the list of people who stopped maintaining. I said:

So everybody (forum owners and devs) slowed their efforts in putting time into 1.x.

what Snog approves. And he is definitely not the exception, but the rule.

With "Xenforo has hurt itself" I didn't actually mean to their sales or in major scope to their business which should be also affected in a minor scale. I meant the community here. The activity here declined so much.

Just an easy example to prove my point. Go to the RM and sort by Ratings or downloads, which is a good indicator for how active the community is. On the first pages how many addons do you see from 2016, 2015, 2014? In the last 2-3 years not much happened here, it is a fact. All of the beloved addons are older than 2-3 years. Even though much time has progressed and you would think that the amount of XF license holders are bigger than 2 years before, that is not proportional to the developments.

 

[sbj]

I think I need to clarify why I've frozen most of my 1.x add-ons and relegated them to bug fixes, etc..

Many of the requests for features would require a major rewrite of the code for the add-ons. In most cases I've made it abundantly clear that I wouldn't do that. Those features are reserved to possibly be added to the 2.x versions since they will most likely require a major rewrite anyway.

I know and I totally understand you and this is how I would do it either. There is nothing wrong with that. I didn't try to make a "bad" example out of you. I was just saying in general, that devs are holding back and you are a good example for that. If there is one thing to blame or to point out, it is the announcement of 2014. Cause in my opinion it laid an expectation which the case didn't fulfill. I feel like the community is at a train station and the train keeps delaying and delaying, which causes the people to leave the station.

 

[Snog]

Just an easy example to prove my point. Go to the RM and sort by Ratings or downloads, which is a good indicator for how active the community is. On the first pages how many addons do you see from 2016, 2015, 2014? In the last 2-3 years not much happened here, it is a fact. All of the beloved addons are older than 2-3 years. Even though much time has progressed and you would think that the amount of XF license holders are bigger than 2 years before, that is not proportional to the developments.

Be careful when using that as a basis for development. A lot of add-ons just don't need updating and will fall off the map using that basis. And downloads don't register for premium add-ons at all.

In my case, I started preparing for 2.x release in June of this year when I published an update schedule for my add-ons. I am intentionally clearing my schedule to have the time to devote to 2.x.

 

[Snog]

I didn't try to make a "bad" example out of you.

I know that.

I just want to be clear for anyone else reading this thread.