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Political Hope?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by EQnoble, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    Just some babble here.

    I was pleasantly surprised about 20 minutes ago when William Petit Jr. knocked on my door and stopped to have a real conversation with me.

    When I made it clear that I was not interested in rhetoric and posturing he accepted that notion gracefully and just stopped the normal campaigning rhetoric and had an actual conversation with me where he listened to and made note of my concerns both general and specific.

    I laid down some pretty disturbing facts and some horrible viewpoints and even with some of the things I said which very well should have offended him I could see sincerity in his concern, a judgement I never give anyone the benefit of the doubt on.

    Maybe...just maybe, not all the upcoming elections offer me a choice between a douche and a turd sandwich.

    Divvens likes this.
  2. sbj

    sbj Well-Known Member

    I am not a savant in US history, but from what I know roughly the last 150 years there are only 2 parties to be chosen from. 2 parties.

    I don't understand how this lack of voices, ideologies, etc. can be viewed as "democratic". And then, pardon me for my harsh words, how can this country dictacte other countries what democracy is? I find it hillarious, when specially America and European countries put themselves on the morally high ground with their history.

    For example, not Nepal throw the nuclear bomb in Japan, US did. But yet US and some other countries dictate other countries who is allowed to have nuclear bombs and who not.
    I can give hundreds of examples likes this.

    Coming back to your current elections. Before the election campaigns started and there were all the candidates left, a friend of mine asked who I would vote for. And, I am not interested in US elections and I don't follow what is happening there. But I told him that if I could vote, I would give it to Hillary, not because I like her, but because I think that she is the smartest of all of them. And months later she and Trump are on the final stage.

    Now, I really haven't followed the campaigns, even if I wanted, I can't do that. The only 1 thing I did is to watch the presedential debate on youtube. I wanted to see the candidates. And oh my god is Hillary Clinton awful. So awful, I couldn't believe my eyes. The next day after the debate all newspapers said that she'd won the debate, but honestly I think they are biased because else they have to admit that the round went to Trump.

    I am a muslim, so I am probably the last guy who would like Trump, but to be honest, at that debate I found him very reasonable and he had solutions to US problems compared to Hillary, who just gave typical politician answers. Answers, which say nothing but sounds good, like political correct answers. For example if someone is asked what he/she thinks about stuff X, then the politician answes with "I find stuff X important and we should talk more about it". Like that kind of answers. Avoiding the questions, giving no substance so nobody can find a hole in your statement.

    So, good luck USA.
    tajhay likes this.
  3. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Well-Known Member

    The problem with politics in the US (or anywhere really) are politicians (especially the career ones).
  4. Lucas

    Lucas Well-Known Member

    The problem with politics is that they are run by lobbyists who are usually banks, big corporations, etc. People still believe that you have a choice by voting in any of those two parties and to be honest they are pretty much the same. It is basically a game. It will change once the population becomes more educated and very very slowly. Call me a conspiracists but if you go look at the big corporations, most of what you buy at a super market and all that stuff comes basically all from the same few big companies with different brands.
  5. Araripe

    Araripe Member

    Same thing here in Brazil. Corruption is literally killing our country. I wish I had money to leave Huezil forever :( And, unfortunately, there is no way to start from scratch. The damage was done already. Brazilian educational system - for example - is a mess and the long term results are worrisome. Our hospitals are a joke. And so are our so-called medics. There is no hope anymore, and nowhere to run. It's the end of the road.
  6. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    Nah there is quite a few more than two parties but other than dems and reps none of those groups ever really stands a chance due to the way the electoral college works and the way big business works.

    Don't get me wrong, I won't argue the points of the word democracy with you because by all definitions our govt is not really a democracy.

    4 things are needed for a real democracy

    1 A system for the appointment and replacement through free and equitable elections.
    2 Politics and civic life shall include the active participation of the people.
    3 Citizens rights as a human must be protected.
    4 Laws and procedure must apply equally to all citizens.

    1 We have free elections but we don't really have any real say in who is going to run it for the next 4 years. The fact that you can't win without super pac money and have to basically be a dem. or rep. to win pretty much removes equitable.

    2 We watch them on tv, we can't really participate and even if you find a venue to participate in your voice really does mean nothing unless someone who is already a politician can find a way to use it to promote their own image.

    3 Generally this is covered, but there are places here you would question it and I myself have experienced human rights violations from local authority as well as inhumane treatment outside of sanctioned behavior so I will be the first to tell you that nobody is perfect, a country made up by a bunch of people being perfect is pretty much not happening.

    4 This is certainly not true because they definitely don't currently.

    The 'democratic power race' mechanism is our country's crux and makes a joke of an actual democracy = Truth

    I'm sure you can, however....http://www.pearlharbor.org/history-of-pearl-harbor.asp the US stayed out of a world war and would have had Japan not advanced and attacked a military base on US soil during wartime in a war that again...we were choosing to stay out of.

    The reality is we (along with other countries) were working on an embargo trying to stop their fuel and materials supply so that we could stop the war before it got even bigger by making them unable to fight and the only reason we took swift and decisive action against them was because they with no warning attempted and succeeding at killing thousands of US soldiers who were not even drawing a single arm against them.

    The Japanese and the Americans have come to terms with the mistakes both of our peoples have made and we are now very strong allies and we consider Japan to be one of our closest (my cousin just came back from Japan where he was stationed and worked closely with Japanese soldiers).

    The reason our country (and all the other countries who support our motives whether silently or publicly) are about controlling nuclear weapons is because of their yield. All it takes is one dumbass to come into power of a country with a nuclear arsenal and the entire world can be rendered uninhabitable within minutes.

    In comparison with normal arms you could give every man, woman and child 5 guns and 10000 rounds and even the population is reduced 99% the world could eventually repopulate. A global level nuclear attack comes and our genome is dead.

    You also have to remember that a lot of smaller countries use the US as a mouth piece to protect their interests, many of things we stand on in public are really not something we necessarily wanted to do. But we have allies, treaties, conventions, accords and pacts in which we agree to go to bat for other countries when they request our help publicly or behind closed doors.

    Either way the US set many precedents that the rest of the world chose to follow once they realized that we were on the same path as all the other great civilizations before us that crippled under themselves and now many countries look to us for guidance, assistance and ultimately protection from a world that now possesses the technology to literally destroy itself.

    We are not the only country doing or behind these preventative measure but it sure feels like we are the only ones ever mentioned which is fine because we are a uniquely young and strong country with a diverse ethnicity that constantly get's new blood, culture, and ideas from the rest of the world and that is a fair trade off because everyone knows that knowledge is the real power anyways;).

    Meh, you didn't miss much. Our presidential elections have been blatant farces at least since the whole Bush Jr Vs Carey nonsense and regular citizens vote for a small fraction of an electoral vote basically.

    We don't even pick our presidents, we don't directly vote for our president and even if we somehow got an indie an actual shot at the race, super PAC money going to people against them would destroy any chance even if every average person supported them.

    I wouldn't vote for either if that matters.

    If given a choice between cyanide and oleander I would choose not to sit at the table and eat. I just don't believe that either candidate is being 100% genuine as I think it has been a lot of acting by both parties.

    Thankfully we only have 4 years and a checks and balances system that is roughly still intact enough to hold us down in the meantime. No matter who wins, I predict that even people who hated on Obama will come to appreciate him a little more once the oval has a rotation.

    السلام عليكم شقيق

    The problem is debating means nothing other than you can talk good....but so can your average street corner hustler so that's not too relevant. I don't think I could name even 10 presidents who actually achieved or set in motion the gears for the agenda they campaigned on.

    Debates are like the two tough guys in the lunch room in high school talking crap back forth trying to show who is alpha with the exception that in a presidential debate the participants rather than trying to be tougher than the other are trying to be smarter than the other. After the high school level showdown is over, nobody cares and the banter isn't relevant.

    They are not actually trying to do anything good for the people there (which is why they don't follow up on specific issues unless it benefits them), they are only trying to convince you that they will do a better job for you than the 'other guy' by manipulating the opponents weak points and strengthening their own and the strategy is more like chess mixed with poker VS genuine statements of agenda.

    What this means in reality is that most of what is said on stage is for the most part already accounted for on an index card somewhere and the debate ends up being a game of Uno waiting for the right time to throw out your wild draw 4 card, a card that a staffer wrote for you.

    Literally debates are there to let you see one person make another person look stupid and most of the time the ideas are not even their own and honestly it boils down to who has a better team to run debate drills with more than anything.

    A debate is won more times by preparation than it is determination or something that actually applies to the job of the president and is basically a glorified chit-slinging competition.

    At any rate, I am worried if Hilary becomes president because of many things including trends in her voting record (being a first lady who also held elected office works against her here) mainly that she is just willing to tow the party line and flip flops more than a beach in 1989, but I would be completely embarrassed if traveling abroad having a president who talked like Trump did publicly while running for office. (sexual fantasies of his daughter, build a wall make mexico pay for it..etc etc, it's like he was catering to every group of people who are closed minded and usually never vote and the sad part is I think that is where most of his momentum came from which is pretty scary itself).

    I am not always the most formal and proper but if I was running for an elected office of any kind I would most certainly not be putting words out there in the same order he did.

    At this point I feel like the only one that has already lost in this election is the American people.
  7. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    Honestly nothing there is really untrue with the exception that most people (that I have met who aren't part of any real political process) don't really believe they have that choice. Super PAC money is unlimited and though donors must be accounted for, non-profit organizations can collect donations from people with no lists and in turn fund the PAC with donors concealed...which makes me wonder why try to act like it's transparent in the first place.

    I have heard as such. Actually my cousin left Connecticut and went to live in both Argentina and Brazil a few years back and when he came home his new inspiration caused by his experience there led him to become a project coordinator in New York for a non-profit that is helping people who are disenfranchised or new to the country get an education. He definitely said you had to watch where you were when in Brazil and that living there was a life changing experience (add details) so I can kind of extrapolate how you feel.
    Araripe likes this.
  8. Araripe

    Araripe Member

    The worst thing here is that there are almost no job opportunities for my area: community management. What if I lose my actual job? There are lots of opportunities for community managers in Canada and United States, for example. I need to leave asap, because there are no opportunities at all for me in Brazil. It's like they say: Brazil is awesome, as long as you have money to afford a good house, a decent car, private school for your kids, private health care, etc... But for middle class and below, Brazil is a huge piece of trash. You can't travel every year, you can't afford a GTX 1080, etc. You can't even buy a gun to defend yourself. It's pathetic. I won't even mention corruption and high taxes, because the whole world knows about it already :p
    It's a beautiful country, people are usually nice and warm, there is a massive amount of different cultures, but the the negatives outweigh the positives :cry:
  9. Bionic Rooster

    Bionic Rooster Well-Known Member

    This is what the Democratic party will do for you,

    if this is true
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  10. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    Not for nothing and I have Russian friends...but giving Russia, China, or any private interest groups control of the internet is pretty much summed up once you get past all the religious stuff (@ 8:10)

    Q: "Does the internet need more oversight?"
    A: "Not by the UN, that's like putting Tony Soprano in charge of gambling in New Jersey."

    I can't believe I am about to type this but....I actually agree with that Fox news clip. That former state department official hit it right on the head.

    BTW - Sean Duffy holding it down with that real talk. Props to him.
  11. Gamorreaner

    Gamorreaner Member

    Actually a good democracy only needs two partys, and it worked in america in the past, but today theres basically one party. The big difference between those partys was, that one stood for big government, and the other for small government (get out of my life/leave me alone - mentality). If you look into countrys like germany, you got 2 major partys, several smaller partys but they all are big government partys and you see that around the world. So basically there is no choice when voting at all. All you do is trying to get most from your neighbours pocket into your own pocket by making a vote on partys which bring you benefits but not society as a whole.

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