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New Search functionality

Discussion in 'General XenForo Discussion and Feedback' started by Edrondol, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. Edrondol

    Edrondol Well-Known Member

    Okay, I've looked and can't find a conversation about the new announcement, so I'm starting one.

    I'm not sure how I feel about the new search functionality being something that is a cost instead of a core product. On the one hand it's totally up to Kier & Co. as to how they add things. On the other, I personally feel that a search function is something that is a necessity on boards and should be core.

    Maybe it's the new thing with the widget mentality to monetize everything, but it just seems weird to me to choose something so essential to a board to add a cost that is more than 1/3 the overall cost of the platform and a 1/4 cost of annual upkeep costs.

    I know what answers I'm going to get. "Don't like it? Don't buy it." and "They can do what they want as it's their product." I dig this I understand where you're coming from and to an extent I concur. But what else is going to be getting this treatment? Is the spam manager going to be $25 and add $5 to our annual cost? Or the Resource Manager $50/$10?

    To stratify the user experience based on what you can pay using a Gold/Platinum/Whatever is one thing, but to stratify what should be core functionality just smacks of greed. (Or an attempt to recoup legal costs. :))

    I don't know, maybe it's just me. But the announcement of charging for a search function is just sitting poorly with me. I love XF and right now wouldn't use any other type of software for a forum, but truthfully it was this sort of thing that caused me to look away from vB.

    Sorry for venting. I'll go back to not making trouble now.
     
    ChemicalKicks likes this.
  2. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

    The search function works out of the box and will always work.

    The new addon is just a way to improve the search speed for very big boards dramatically. And if you run a very big board, the cost for the search addon are your least problem costwise :)

    No need to get anxious.
     
    Lost, RobinHood and Steve10 like this.
  3. RobParker

    RobParker Well-Known Member

    I think you've misunderstood slightly. It's search functionality for LARGE forums.

    The built-in, standard XF search will work fine for the majority of people and comes as part of XF. For those with sites that need it, there's the option to buy this and to be honest, if you need this then the price will be an irrelevant fraction of your running costs.

    Rather than getting 3rd party addons where the authors disappear after a year I much prefer official premium addons like this where we know they will continue to be supported. I agree it shouldn't be at the expense of core functionality but more reserved for specialised needs (which this search addon is).

    If I needed it as a core functionality for my site, I'd happily pay $100 for the Resource Manager as I recognise that most people will have no need of it. On the other hand, spam management should be a core part of the XF product and not an "extra" as it's basic functionality that's required by everyone.
     
    Walter likes this.
  4. Robbo

    Robbo Well-Known Member

    I was a bit surprised when I saw the price. On one hand I think it is a little expensive and on the other hand it is for big board owners. Big board owners would probably make money in the long run from server costs being down, people staying for adverts etc. Maybe not even the long run, one month they would probably be in front.
     
  5. RobParker

    RobParker Well-Known Member

    Exactly. Currently when we get busy our forum drops to a crawl and we need to disable the search functionality to prevent our server dying (still on VB!). For a tenth of our monthly running costs we solve that problem and ensure more up time (and hence more advertising revenue/page views) then it's easily worth it. For those that really need it it's worth a LOT more than they're charging. For those that don't need it but will buy it anyway it might seem expensive.
     
  6. Edrondol

    Edrondol Well-Known Member

    Okay, so it could very well be that it's just me. As I stated, this is all opinion.

    But like all of you, even though I don't have a big board I will say I don't have a big board currently. I have dreams and aspiration, yes, and as they say, "You want to play with the big boys you have to dress like the big boys." As elasticsearch is open sourced it cost nothing to use - just ("just!") the time it took to integrate it into the software.

    I'm not entirely sure if I'm being out of line here. I get Rob's point but I still feel a bit put out.
     
  7. Deebs

    Deebs Well-Known Member

    Indeed, the XenForo Enhanced Search module is not for those that run their forums on VPS or low end dedicated servers. ElasticSearch runs under a JVM which itself loves lots of RAM to be effective and is not a simple install it and forget application.

    The core search product is adequate for 90% of forum owners out there. I personally welcome the price as I guarantee that along with this module will come an additional support burden on XenForo Ltd.
     
    Steve F likes this.
  8. Slavik

    Slavik XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    The big board search is a specialised product for those who require it. Most likely those who require it are also running a forum with a substantial profitable income to match the size of the board.

    If you don't like the cost then the default Mysql search will always be free, but this is an "elite product" which has had substantial development time invested into it.

    $50 + $10 per year is a bargain if you ask me.
     
  9. Edrondol

    Edrondol Well-Known Member

    It's just me then, I guess. Maybe it's the geek in me wanting the bestest and shiniest thing out there.
     
  10. Kacee

    Kacee Member

    If this work as well as Sphinx, $50 + $10 isn't a bargain, it's a joke!

    Using Sphinx on my vBB board saved me thousands dollar in hardhare cost and setup time, why would anyone complain about $50???
     
    Steve10 likes this.
  11. Slavik

    Slavik XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Nothing wrong with that, we all want the shinest toys, but this toy is not for everyone :)
     
    M@rc likes this.
  12. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Indeed.

    I won't be able to use it on my shared hosting :(
    Not that I need it anyway with only 100,000 posts.
     
  13. Mike

    Mike XenForo Developer Staff Member

    I would point out that you could say the same thing about the whole LAMP stack, so by that token XenForo doesn't fit itself. But obviously there's a reason that people (you) buy it, so what does it provide over free alternatives? You could probably apply that to any commercial software company.
     
  14. Steve10

    Steve10 Well-Known Member

    As a smallish board admin I know we don't need this at the moment but having helped to run a big board in the past I know that $50 isn't actually problem and to be honest if it allows a highly usable search that can take massive load then really it's a bargain and will pay for itself quite quickly. It's also not something that needs to come in the box, I like the default search, it works well for small sites and the whole thing about running something you don't need applies here.
     
  15. Edrondol

    Edrondol Well-Known Member

    Well, I actually have my answers - it's not something I need to use. (Although I would love to have the functionality of small searches.)

    Hopefully I haven't come across as a complainer but someone who really wanted to know what was up. The fact that there wasn't a thread already on it discussing it caused me to pause for quite a while before I took the plunge.
     
  16. Slavik

    Slavik XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    You still can, open up your my.cnf

    Add in

    Code:
    [mysqld]
    ft_min_word_len=2
     
    [myisamchk]
    ft_min_word_len=2
    Save close and restart mysql.

    Go into xenforo search options, set the minimum letter length to 2 letters then rebuild your search index ;)
     
    EQnoble and Saeed like this.
  17. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Yup, mine's already on 2 characters.

    It's been in the FAQ for a while:
    Note that with XenForo 1.1 and above, it is now possible to set the minimum word length in the ACP -> Options -> Search Options: Search Minimum Word Length; this value must correspond with the MySQL full text minimum word length in the my.cnf configuration file.
     
    EQnoble and Saeed like this.
  18. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

    Just the time? That is a misconception. Why?

    If I could program such an integration, I would do it myself. Despite having >20 years experience in software engineering, I don't have the knowledge. As I don't have the knowhow needed here, I rely on others (=Kier+Mike).

    So it's not only their time (which is valuable) but also their knowledge that you pay. And on top of that, Xenforo is a business so some of the money is spent on accounting and other expenses. Someone has to pay it and I fear, it's people like you and me.
     
  19. principia

    principia Well-Known Member

    I dont think that this is a abig deal for Xenforo.
    How much (big) Boards will need - and buy - this search function?
    So, if they really want to make fast money, there are other easier ways
     
  20. TheBigK

    TheBigK Well-Known Member

    I'm guessing that big boards => boards with 1 million+ posts. Or do we have a different definition of big (/large) boards?

    I think $50 + $10 (recurring/year) is *nothing* for a big board; for the cost would be recovered within just a few hours if not minutes. I'm not sure how the new product improves the whole search experience, but I'm definitely going to give it a try when the right time comes.

    I'm quite excited to see the announcement. Just that I've few more months to wait before I see 1.2 makes me a little nervous. Given my experience of using Beta; I think I'm going to upgrade as soon as we get the mobile style ;)

    K&M - release the mobile style with first beta, please. My users are dying for it.
     

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