whynot
Well-known member
I knew that, and he knew that you would not agree to anything which is not coming from you.
Negative responses on suggestion threads
- Thread starter dehness
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TPerry
Well-known member
This shows how much I "like" IPS but also that I'm not "all about XenForo".
The current site (https://servinglinux.com) is running IPS. So no, I'm not in "a camp" on any one. When I see what I believe is a lot of BS, I'll call it BS. The fact that folks can't stand to have someone disagree with them is, to put it bluntly TS. If one is a simplistic needs admin, then yes, IPS will work wonderfully for them (if you can deal with some of their RSDD's - really stupid design decisions). If one is an admin that requires more "power options" then they will NOT be happy with IPS unless they are willing to spend a lot of money.
In the entire time I've been here (since 10/18/2012) I've never had an issue with feeling like I was getting "dumped on" or "talked down to" or anything like that. If I was behaving like a jerk (and I can be an abrasive ass), I was adult enough to deal with being called out on it. I'm also adult enough to know that not everyone agrees with everyone.
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whynot
Well-known member
Are you defending IPS as much as you do XF?
Are you going to defend WBB as much as you do XF?
or...
Are you going to be banned from them because you are advertising XF on their site?
It's not going to help them not you and not XF.
If someone is having an idea what feature, function is needed here,
it's not necessary to immediately declare that it's not needed because you don't need it.
Please help XF to improve.
TPerry
Well-known member
If I find that they are being dumped on.. then yep, sure will. Same way as I do with IPS when I find some things that they do well.
If doing comparative features is "advertising" then most likely. Sorry that IPS is feature poor in a lot of aspects to someone who uses XenForo extensively. They certainly have a "not created here" attitude over there - WAY more than any of the XF dev's have. You want restrictive - feel free to purchase a copy and then ask for improvements over there.
Over there, you can't have any dissension (even if just mildly heated) that does not toe the party line. It won't be split off into another thread - it will just be deleted.
If they can't take a suggestion (and a comparison) to other scripts, then maybe I'm not that worried about them... as can be seen from above image. I'm not tied to them, nor to XenForo. I just see a lot of hullaboo because someone gets their "feelings" hurt. In the old days, one would be told to "man up" and "deal with it". There's another phrase that is used, but it would result in some no-no time for me if I posted it...
The issue is the constant hue & cry "it needs to be core". Crap, a lot of the stuff is VERY niche like and is better served by 3rd party implementation, but the suggester doesn't want to shell out the funds to have it coded for them so they would prefer it be rolled into core.
Telling someone that, in their opinion, it doesn't need to be in core, but would be better served as a 1st or 3rd party add-on is not "declaring that it's not needed", but that it's not needed as core. I have seen numerous suggestions that I liked, and I supported - some of which would fit as "in core" and others that would be better addressed as a 1st or 3rd party add-on.
Classic case was what I understood @Alfa1 was wanting. It appeared that he wanted, as core, what amounts to a fully functional wallet that could be extended. Well, that's a perfect target for a 1st party integration, with hooks that would allow it to be extended, no different than the RM or the Gallery or ES - but NOT core IMHO. Is it a 1st party add-on that I would likely purchase? Pretty sure I would, as that was one of the reasons (actually the commerce ability) that I went with IPS. The "wallet" aspect would make the production of a commerce app even more sensible - again, hopefully 1st party, but even 3rd from a reputable dev would be nice.
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erich37
Well-known member
some people just do not understand the concept and benefits of "Brainstorming"...
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/rules-for-brainstorming.101871/
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TPerry
Well-known member
Is that anything like BrainStrumming?
erich37
Well-known member
Is that anything like BrainStrumming?
no, "Strom" in german language means "Power".
... the Power of Brainstorming
TPerry
Well-known member
Sorry, XF is an english only area!no, "Strom" in german language means "Power".
... the Power of Brainstorming
That's why I can't talk sailor here.
Yes. Since we decided for XF, we can just hope that the situation with developers (called "regular fluctuation" by Chris D.) gets addressed. XF needs to be more attractive to professional add-on developers. Currently most of them are not happy and new professional developers from other software shy away from switching to XF and this community.
Daniel Hood
Well-known member
I'll assert myself as part of the minority I guess. Just patiently waiting for the market to continue expanding. I love the platform and the environment. I do wish there were more people with an appropriate value for developers. There's some bad apples that expect everything for nothing (or close to it). I just appreciate the ones that do have an appreciation for us and I know more and more will come eventually.
I also love the platform. It also makes fun to create add-ons. And there is more than enough room for add-ons with XF.
However, the market won't expand if XF does not attract the professional boards enough. The majority of XF users are small personal forums. They can only afford free or very cheap add-ons. And they need add-ons, because XF out of the box is -well, let's say- not very satisfying. I know not a single installation without any add-ons. And we could for example run vB 3.8 without any add-ons (except Sphinx) for years (still do).
This makes the market for professional developers who need to name their price for much needed add-ons so difficult. In addition to the very difficult community here.
There could be partnerships between XenForo and professional add-on makers. Even packages sold together could be possible. There should be some kind of official qualification badge. Official support by XenForo.
But currently there is no distinction between very bad coded scripts and perfectly coded professional add-ons. Customers have to decide themselves and are sometimes lost for XF and all professional coders after their first failed pick. They cannot try pricey add-ons, so the often bad coded scripts are the ones they download.
Professional coders need some guidelines. Currently there is no roadmap with XF. If someone for example codes a gallery and XF releases it's own gallery 3 months later, all the work is lost (because no one will buy the 3rd party gallery any more). Who wants this, if he works professionally?
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TPerry
Well-known member
How many add-ons do you use in your installation?
We have 67 add-ons with our XenForo site. Which is a small site.
We have 1 add-on (Sphinx) with our vB3 site. Which is one of the largest forum sites in Europe.
Both are forums with no extra features.
What XF should do is to ask their customers which add-ons they use. This would be much better approach for new features then the suggestion and "Like" measurement currently used.
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TPerry
Well-known member
Which did not answer the question.
So, you would have me believe that in 67 addons, there are no "extra" features - all it does is bring it up to parity with vBulletin 3.8?
Dang, maybe I should have gotten a vB 3.8 license instead of buying WBB.
Actually - no, because of the bloat that it will add putting in every little feature. Up/down vote is the better way.
I feel like we're getting off topic here and roughly have been for most of the last 20 posts or so. The core discussion here relates to the types of responses to suggestions. The rest of the discussion spawned from that Admin Talk thread is certainly valid feedback, but it's sort of off topic for this particular thread.
Lets try to keep this on topic. (I'm not sure there's exactly a single discussion going on in the previous posts, so I don't think it's necessarily splittable.)
Lets try to keep this on topic. (I'm not sure there's exactly a single discussion going on in the previous posts, so I don't think it's necessarily splittable.)
Mouth
Well-known member
I'd love to see a thread with official musings and feedback regarding the issues outlined in the AT thread, specifically the aspects where XF feels they are valid and actions that will be taken to address.
Mr Lucky
Well-known member
Apart from what I thought was a good point about the fanboys on suggestion threads (although that is not unique to xenforo of course) I hardly think that so called review is worth dignifying with a discussion, it was more of a badly written rant than a review.
Mouth
Well-known member
Both are opinions, regardless of which slant you want to put on it it. Those with objectivity take feedback without feeling the need to denigrate the author.
EQnoble
Well-known member
Calling anyone opposing your ideas a fanboy is denigrating anyone who may pose an argument before they even do it and not just the one person responding to the author's suggestion.
I'd rather argue with a 'fanboy' than give someone with an agenda a podium to stand on, at least a 'fanboy' ACTUALLY cares about the community.
The difference; heart > gains.
Saying that everyone with an opinion opposite to you is a fanboy, is akin to a person of one color being called racist because they wont do something for a different colored person which they wouldn't do for anyone of any color including their own.
Like if I was to say...you are doing 'X' because I am white....it's equal to you saying that I am a fanboy because I don't agree with you. Neither makes sense and both would be based on a mental perversion of actual reality and both are insulting summations made out of selfishness using exclusionary tactics and not so much to shoot my argument down but to discredit me entirely as not being objective so that you can be lazy and not even have to support your idea.
It is literally the base of manipulation.
Many suggestions I see are geared for a niche where a site owner does not want to pay for custom development and rather than just calling people cheap I think an engaged discussion (even a fact based argument for that matter) does more to explain the pros and cons to people who may not understand the scope of a suggestion which will get responses of REAL supporters, not the "hey friends support my suggestion" people.
If you can suggest things which will be added to other peoples sites when they upgrade...you should be prepared to argue/debate your point with the people who don't want those things added to their site...if you are not prepared to do that you basically want more stuff for free and don't want to hire a developer and just want everyone to shut up to get your way and have your needs added to their site.
Bottom line...if your suggestion only benefits you...and you can't support why it should be included when people question it posing circumstance...you should let other people with the same view as you handle the herding instead of calling people fanboys because the reality is, you are not a god and not everyone is going to drop to their knees in silence then look up and say 'thank you for your suggestion oh great one' if they don't actually feel that way.
Yeah, you don't answer a suggestion with, 'that's stupid...don't add it' as it is grossly insensitive and insulting in a disconnected way and it accomplishes nothing.
But when someone poses valid and opposing points...it's common practice to just label them a fanboy so you can dismiss them with minimal effort for the purpose to invalidate their argument because you really have no argument for the content of their words.
Here is how fanboy accusation mentality works (fanboy is thrown around in the software arena like calling people salty when they rage after insulting their mother is thrown around in online gaming);
You agree with me = you are a good independent customer.
You don't agree with me = shut up you are a fanboy
I feel if I want to say something countering your suggestion and support my reasoning with details there should be no problem unless you are scared of reality.
If your idea has legs and had the potential to eventually take off running and you can pose why that is and gather support...no amount of 'fanboy' arguments would stop the money train.
Your suggestions are about your idea not you so if you are offended at someone posing points of logic against it you honestly need to re-evaluate your position before making that post.
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