Mike Edge
Well-known member
My post was moved to here too even though it was positive for it. I just rather see it as a 1st party add-on extention like Resource Manager then in the core.
Negative responses on suggestion threads
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My post was moved to here too even though it was positive for it. I just rather see it as a 1st party add-on extention like Resource Manager then in the core.
Daniel Hood
Well-known member
I don't think this is related to a single situation.
Almost every suggestion created the past few months instantly has a "this isn't need in the core", "bloatware", "why is this needed?" type post made after it. I get that not every post has to support the suggestion but rather than shooting it down with a sentence or single question, give it some thought. A lot of the great features in XenForo that people love could really be considered bloat or categorized as not necessary. I look through old suggestions sometimes, a lot of the ones with the most likes have a lot more constructive feedback or zero replies. All the new ones have much more bickering. People have to follow up their original suggestion with a justification of why they suggested it. Everyone posts their suggestions knowing they may not get implemented or might not be liked by everyone, they shouldn't have to justify their opinion though.
I personally like the first post like system, if you like the suggestion, like it, if you dont, don't. If you have more questions or constructive feedback then by all means add it.
TPerry
Well-known member
I think the big issue is "it needs to be in the core". If we put everything in the "core" that everybody believes should be there.. guess what you end up with. 
Some things are better served by 1st party add-ons or even 3rd party. I can see the dev's making it easier to hook into for that, but why does everything always "need to be in the core". The only thing I see is "I want this and I don't want to have to pay any extra for it" when I see that phrase. There have been a few good suggestions to improve the core, but most are better answered by an add-on.
Some things are better served by 1st party add-ons or even 3rd party. I can see the dev's making it easier to hook into for that, but why does everything always "need to be in the core". The only thing I see is "I want this and I don't want to have to pay any extra for it" when I see that phrase. There have been a few good suggestions to improve the core, but most are better answered by an add-on.
Bionic Rooster
Well-known member
Justifying suggestions is nothing more than clarifying an idea so others can better understand what and why someone thinks their suggestion is the be all to end all.
Any disagreement can be viewed as negative no matter how politically correct it is presented so the suggester needs to put aside their feelings of being slighted and help others understand their idea rather than pouting and blaming others for their inability to clearly state their needs.
Not everyone will agree with an idea and to censor any questions or disagreements is less constructive than qualifying the need for said suggestion when questions or disagreements are posted.
Any disagreement can be viewed as negative no matter how politically correct it is presented so the suggester needs to put aside their feelings of being slighted and help others understand their idea rather than pouting and blaming others for their inability to clearly state their needs.
Not everyone will agree with an idea and to censor any questions or disagreements is less constructive than qualifying the need for said suggestion when questions or disagreements are posted.
Alpha1
Well-known member
This is not just about the thread that this discussion was split from.
IMHO its very valuable when people ask for clarification of suggestions, point out problems with the suggested feature and even of they explain why they think it should be a 1st party addon.
It is in no way constructive when suggestions are labelled unwanted or niche, need to be defended, become a Yes/No argument, attract passive aggressive comments, sarcasm to the point of being trolled and needing to give up. It's quite ridiculous when you need to ask for the feature request to be deleted because it gets too much.
AFAIK this is the feature request section of an official company website, to collect useful ideas for improvement of a great platform. But its often responded to as if its another discussion forum to vent frustrations or to diss others.
People should not be afraid to post suggestions or addons on xenforo.com but it has already come to that point. There are plenty of people who stopped posting suggestions or anything at all here. Where developers move on, do not even dare to start on XF or make their addons privately released only. Its regrettable that the XF platform needs to suffer from this.
I do realize that XF is one beast of a community to moderate and I have nothing but the highest respect for all of the staff here. Especially @Brogan who has to deal with most of it. I hope that XF will keep on growing as I expect it will, but this comes with growing pains.
I hope that this aspect will be considered by the staff & management to avoid that the lack of company community standards in this respect negatively affects the success of this awesome platform.
IMHO its very valuable when people ask for clarification of suggestions, point out problems with the suggested feature and even of they explain why they think it should be a 1st party addon.
It is in no way constructive when suggestions are labelled unwanted or niche, need to be defended, become a Yes/No argument, attract passive aggressive comments, sarcasm to the point of being trolled and needing to give up. It's quite ridiculous when you need to ask for the feature request to be deleted because it gets too much.
AFAIK this is the feature request section of an official company website, to collect useful ideas for improvement of a great platform. But its often responded to as if its another discussion forum to vent frustrations or to diss others.
People should not be afraid to post suggestions or addons on xenforo.com but it has already come to that point. There are plenty of people who stopped posting suggestions or anything at all here. Where developers move on, do not even dare to start on XF or make their addons privately released only. Its regrettable that the XF platform needs to suffer from this.
I do realize that XF is one beast of a community to moderate and I have nothing but the highest respect for all of the staff here. Especially @Brogan who has to deal with most of it. I hope that XF will keep on growing as I expect it will, but this comes with growing pains.
I hope that this aspect will be considered by the staff & management to avoid that the lack of company community standards in this respect negatively affects the success of this awesome platform.
Thank you for this part especially. A bit stifling really.
Mr Lucky
Well-known member
Yes, I have more or less stopped posting suggestions, they tend to be shot down in flames, however much time I spend on thinking them through.
What is the thread in question ???
Daniel Hood
Well-known member
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/xenforo-wallet-purchasable-features.109578/page-2#post-1016443 This is the thread that got split.
Alpha1
Well-known member
^That thread tended to go in a similar direction as the suggestions before. Luckily @Chris D intervened. If you want to see a good example of how wrong it can go then maybe @Brogan can restore my suggestion from November 25th.
It was a valid suggestion. I have been very cautious about posting suggestions since then.
It was a valid suggestion. I have been very cautious about posting suggestions since then.
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Bionic Rooster
Well-known member
I haven't read that other post so my comments here are not influenced by what was said there. They are pertaining to what has been posted here.
I agree with you here. But I think you'll agree with me that not everyone can post responses clearly and concisely that makes the disagreement of what I think a well thought out plan easier to swallow. So comments grate or seem to belittle but most replies to many suggestions I've read is others don't see the idea needed in core. And of course they should try to explain that reasoning as best they can.
If I think someone is trolling and just poking the OP to get a reaction then I just ignore him/them. Nice tool that
Most times I need to read between the lines to see the point, pro or con.
That's a major flaw in typing suggestions and replies. People are too quick IMO to over react to a disagreement because they don't understand why a person doesn't see a need for their idea.
My suggestion would be for the idea people to stop reacting to obvious trolls and concentrate on justifying their ideas so we understand them better. If we all moderated our reactions/overreactions there wouldn't be a need for staff intervention in many cases. Hit the 'ignore button' and stick around to post what you think are great ideas. Perhaps others will come to see your idea better and vote 'LIKE'
3rd AnGle
Well-known member
I also feel the discussion whether any newly posted suggestion should be "part of the core" or "devs should better spend time on other things" by other community members is not needed, considering these suggestions are made by customers of a company and it is a message directed at the company. When a suggestion is made, it's not really a public poll seeking public support, although the method may seem like it, to pick up suggested features is based on the "likes" in Xenforo. Regardless of the methodology used, when someone makes a suggestion, they are asking the company to consider the feature. That should be the premise but fellow members in XF community have a habit of jumping in with "nah... you can have it as an addon though" comments which discourages people to participate more.
Asking clarifications are fine but the judgement should be the sole responsibility of the company, XF in this case. Why should other members pass a judgement on my suggestion which is directed at a company i am purchasing from? I don't understand why there are members here taking the trouble of giving their opinions on whether it is worth it or not. The argument about bloating the product has become a cliche now. Let the XF developers decide as they are the ones who knows best. This is the biggest confusion i have about XF suggestion forum.
If XF finds the suggestion to be in line with their vision for the product, they "might" just implement it (as an addon or otherwise) and we are all okay with that. If they don't want to implement it, it is okay as well. This way, at least, people will keep pouring in more ideas. I have seen a lot of product companies and marketplace where customers interact with their product developers for product features and there i don't find others (not the product owners) telling me how else can i achieve that feature.
Let's leave it to the company to decide. Perhaps, the company should make it very clear of their methodology. There is no downvote (dislikes), in the current method so i just don't see why other members should be given a chance to create confusion and negative vibe by giving their opinions on "what's best for core and what's not". Honestly, it turns me off.
*** i like suggesting features in XenAddons. It is very fertile there.
Asking clarifications are fine but the judgement should be the sole responsibility of the company, XF in this case. Why should other members pass a judgement on my suggestion which is directed at a company i am purchasing from? I don't understand why there are members here taking the trouble of giving their opinions on whether it is worth it or not. The argument about bloating the product has become a cliche now. Let the XF developers decide as they are the ones who knows best. This is the biggest confusion i have about XF suggestion forum.
If XF finds the suggestion to be in line with their vision for the product, they "might" just implement it (as an addon or otherwise) and we are all okay with that. If they don't want to implement it, it is okay as well. This way, at least, people will keep pouring in more ideas. I have seen a lot of product companies and marketplace where customers interact with their product developers for product features and there i don't find others (not the product owners) telling me how else can i achieve that feature.
Let's leave it to the company to decide. Perhaps, the company should make it very clear of their methodology. There is no downvote (dislikes), in the current method so i just don't see why other members should be given a chance to create confusion and negative vibe by giving their opinions on "what's best for core and what's not". Honestly, it turns me off.
*** i like suggesting features in XenAddons. It is very fertile there.
Dakota Storm
Well-known member
Actually, that's exactly what it is, given that the devs implement a lot of suggestions based on how much/if any, support the suggestion his.
RDR
Well-known member
Can you point me to where this is explained?
Because I have always been under the impression that if we want something that someone suggests, we are to like the first post. Nothing more, nothing less.
@3rd AnGle summed up my feelings here perfectly.
Dakota Storm
Well-known member
SneakyDave
Well-known member
It's not passing judgement, it's members providing opinions. Everybody is a customer here, whether they make a suggestion or not. If somebody wants to make a suggestion that I don't personally care for, shouldn't I or other members be able to voice their opinion about it? Or are people so sensitive that they think a dissenting opinion will hurt their chances of getting the suggestion implemented?
I may not want the devs wasting their time on something that can better be used on the existing code base, or cause more bugs to be introduced.
We have it great here with suggestions. The only other options would be to have moderators remove any hint of negativity from all suggestion discussions, so that the OP's can feel better about their suggestions, or implement a private suggestion box sent directory to developers, and not let any commentary happen.
Martok
Well-known member
Replying to suggestions is mentioned in the guide to suggestions here:
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/guide-to-suggestions.2285/
Also note Brogan's responses at the start of this thread and in particular this one:
Why does anyone have to be labeled sensitive because they are bothered/offended by a tone of someone speaking to them? Calling someone sensitive is not an excuse for various people's poor behavior because they feel they can be outspoken and dismissive and come off as arrogant or disrespectful because they don't want developer's wasting their time.
There is an obvious issue here. Regardless if the community has existed/worked this way from the start, with the growth of Xenforo, things evolve and some comments in this thread alone have me shaking my head., and perhaps the problem needs to be looked at and reevaluated before it escalates even further.
Some type of Upvote/Downvote ala reddit would be a great implementation. So it can gauge interest and intention. I personally don't see a need for 'discussing' suggestions with anyone except the staff simply because nobody but the staff has any say in the end, truly, and my wants differ from the next person's and vice versa.
Leave it to a simple upvote/downvote thing and call it a day.
RDR
Well-known member
So make a suggestion that you don't want this company to produce more bugs in their code and get like support for it. Might as well also make a suggestion that you want to be product manager for this company and make the decision on what they should or shouldn't be working on. I do believe that is the only person who can do what you are implying?
SneakyDave
Well-known member
What tone? point out the negative tone of a dissenting opinion? Are these people calling them names? Are they saying the idea is stupid?
Is there some kind of negative tone when somebody comments "This shouldn't be in core"?
In my opinion, if you go so far as to ask to have your suggestion removed, maybe it wasn't a very good suggestion in the first place, or you hadn't thought it through enough.
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