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XF 1.5 Moderator Usergroup Permissions vs Node

Discussion in 'XenForo Questions and Support' started by XenBurger, Jul 4, 2016.

  1. XenBurger

    XenBurger Member

    I was having difficulty explaining this question in text:



    Thanks.
     
  2. Harpers Tate

    Harpers Tate Well-Known Member

    Permissions given on the first page you visited (usergroup permission) will apply across the entire board; are NOT restricted to any node or nodes.
    Permissions given on the node page will apply within that node only.

    One doesn't override the other; they add. In this particular case, having a permission on the node page set to allow will have no effect if the same permission is given at UserGroup level.

    (IMO) XF doesn't handle Moderator-Node permissions very well. It's a reasonable (but false) assumption that UserGroup permissions given to Moderators will apply only where they are Moderators. Whereas in fact they apply across the board; UserGroup permissions are in effect "Super" permissions.
     
  3. XenBurger

    XenBurger Member

    Something doesn't make sense here.

    Because yes I can add a user to the Moderator Usergroup, but I was explicitly told this does not add them as a moderator to any forums. I was told you must make them a "Super Moderator" for this to happen.

    So i was told I *must* go into the Node Tree and manually add each Moderator to each forum, and set permissions.

    Why am I then being presented with this additional permissions page? Q1: Should I uncheck all the boxes and assume that defaults to Usergroup permissions?

    Forcing me to view and "Save" this additional permissions page creates a psychological dilemma.

    It implies that these node level settings take precedence. Q2: That isn't true?

    Q3: What good are the Moderator usergroup permissions if it doesn't even make them a moderator of any forums? They've got capabilities of moderators but they're not moderators of any forums?

    Confusing.

    So they must be "Super Moderators" to automatically be moderators of all forums, yet there is no such usergroup! How do I make someone a super moderator?

    So i can select the option to make someone a super moderator at the Node level and yet again it asks me to set a bunch of permissions.

    I added a user to "Moderator" usergroup but when I viewed the forum list (node tree) I did not see that user listed. It still said "4" moderators even though I had just added a 5th to the usergroup.

    At this point my brain is completely jumbled and lost.

    • Adding user to Moderator usergroup does *not* add them in the "Moderators (4)" number you see when viewing node tree.

    • Yet adding user to Moderator usergroup *does* give them moderator capabilities. I guess? But yet it doesn't actually make them a moderator of any forums, so whats the point of this usergroup setting at all?

    • You must go into each node and manually add them, and set permissions once again (or uncheck everything and let it default to Usergroup permissions? Nobody knows for sure ... lol

    • Adding someone to "Super Moderators" gives them moderator permissions across all forums - yet there is no such usergroup. Q4: So where are default permissions set for Super Moderators as there is no such usergroup?
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2016
  4. Sunka

    Sunka Well-Known Member

    What you choose in group permission is not for complete forum, just for subforum where you add moderator role to user.
    In moderator own page, you choose directly what hey could or not in forums where they can to moderate.
    For supermoderator, permissions are set into own user supermoderato paga (same as moderator own page)
     
  5. XenBurger

    XenBurger Member

    1) Adding user to Moderator Usergroup is where I "add moderator role to user". I don't do this in the subforum.
    2) If user is not made moderator of any forums, then what is the purpose of Usergroup permissions?
    3) Why am I being forced to set permissions again when I add moderator to subforum? What is point of Usergroup permissions?

    Sorry, what?
    Now there's a third location? Usergroup Permissions, Subforum Permissions, and now User Page?
     
  6. Mike

    Mike XenForo Developer Staff Member

    To be a moderator is a separate "position" from anything you specify in groups. A user is only a moderator if you made them a moderator via the moderator system. This is distinct from someone who just has higher level permissions. As a pedantic point, we didn't name the group "moderators" but "moderating" -- and "administrative" -- to try to make a subtle implication that this isn't how you make someone a moderator, as you might be used to in another system.

    I may be sort of making up terms now, but there's a "moderator position" and a "moderating role". The position says "as a moderator, you can do X, Y and Z in the area you moderate and A, B and C in other places (like view warnings or IPs)". This is what you specify via the moderator system. Simultaneously, you might add someone to the moderating group (role) to say "as someone in this role, here's a forum you can access that other people can't" or "we trust you to post new threads here where other people can't".

    In this way, the system is designed that you specify what abilities a person has to perform their specific moderation duties in the moderator system while using groups to handle more general changes. That's the basic system.

    Techncially, this all works through user permissions. It's basically accessing the same thing, just with a more specific UI for managing moderators and what they can do.

    The more advanced step involves using the moderating group to specify baseline permissions for all moderators (assuming you add all of them to that group). This is most definitely optional. It can save some amount of duplication of work (depending on your site), but it also requires you to understand the action your taking. If you apply moderator permissions to the moderating group, it's no different than applying any other permission to a group: if you apply it at the global level, it's going to apply everywhere. The permission analyzer will demonstrate this.

    It's worth noting that there are no outward indications in XF that someone is a moderator. The only indication is if they are displayed as a staff member, but you don't have to display that for moderators (or you can display it for people that aren't moderators).
     

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