Is there a CMS planned?

I would need both CMS and a calendar system myself, but I’ve realised long before Kier’s recent post that there was no way XF could commit to producing these nor even a timescale, because the company hasn’t even started trading yet – it has no income, which makes it impossible to plan that far ahead.

I think they are right to get the forum software out there first and start generating an income from customers that only need the core product and those that can/want to buy into it for ‘playing with’, whilst they or others produce mods.

In an ideal world income would be enough to bring onboard extra developers as soon as possible and perhaps launch a fairly basic CMS (limited initial functions, but still highly polished) that can be developed further as time goes on.

I am happy to keep an eye on XF over the coming months, as I have a gut feeling it’ll take off rather quickly, whereas I was considering a more to IPB.

The old saying ‘learn to walk before you attempt to run’ is as true today as it has always been.
 
Chicken and baked eggs

Because they are not just good candiates, they're the lead candidates.

The XF community - which only exists as a potential not an actual community right now - needs to hear that this priority is on the roadmap. That cms and/ or gallery are the first priority after the forum itself is stable. That much I think would reassure those who desperately need these essentials in order to become XF buyers rather than lost to XF.

On the other hand, if sales are slow we will not be in a position to expand...
That may well mean that some people will not be able to adopt XenForo right away...

I would need both CMS and a calendar system myself, but I’ve realised long before Kier’s recent post that there was no way XF could commit to producing these nor even a timescale, because the company hasn’t even started trading yet – it has no income, which makes it impossible to plan that far ahead.

I think they are right to get the forum software out there first and start generating an income from customers that only need the core product and those that can/want to buy into it for ‘playing with’, whilst they or others produce mods.

In an ideal world income would be enough to bring onboard extra developers as soon as possible and perhaps launch a fairly basic CMS (limited initial functions, but still highly polished) that can be developed further as time goes on.

I am happy to keep an eye on XF over the coming months, as I have a gut feeling it’ll take off rather quickly, whereas I was considering a more to IPB.

The old saying ‘learn to walk before you attempt to run’ is as true today as it has always been.

Exactly (in reply to DoctorWatsOn). I fully understand what M&K are saying (and it is the only logical and right way to approach) and obviously I also get Shanji's point. For my platform AND a new project it is simply impossible to upgrade or go for XenForo. We are talking about the CMS now, but my problem is that XF does not come with integrated Blogs like vBulletin (my current platform is powered by it) does. I can live (for now) with a CMS not being there, but I simply can not give up my Blogs... :(.

So, it is a little bit of a chicken and egg situation isn't it? Maybe a forum-only solution doesn't generate enough income/resources to produce further integrated products (Gallery, Blog, CMS). But on the other hand... if there would be a Blog, CMS and Gallery now or very soon... XenForo's sales will skyrocket just by these facts alone. I am totally convinced of that (for several reasons). XF will be able to attract so much disgruntled vBulletin owners for example. So very much. I am still reading (not participating anymore, mind you) the vBulletin.com forums once in a while and an huge amount of customers do not see XenForo as a serious alternative now, because of the simple facts that there is no Blog, no Gallery and no CMS.

If XF really wants to compete with the big players in the coming years and generate more buyers/income... there has got to be a Blog, Gallery (User Albums) and CMS. I really see no other way. (I dearly hope that vBulletin doesn't get their act together with the road from vB4.1---> vB5.0, because if (and I doubt it) they improve the quality of their suite and XF is not going to offer anything but a forum... then the future of XenForo as a forum-only solution will be problematic, I'm afraid).

Having said that... I have very good hopes that in due time XF will offer an all-in-1 solution. XF, XF Ltd, it's community and the forumworld deserve and simply need it. (<--- yes, I do mean it ;))
 
You'll get there Kier. You and Mike and your mates were always the heart and best of VB.
XF is a brilliant forum and the whole way you handle the community of suggestions/ demands here is outstanding. No one is going to bne able to match those two together.
Then there are clearly a whole lot of coders who are queuing at the gate waiting to make wonderful mods for XF - theyt're already setting up websites.
So that's it really.

Just hang in there and do your thing the way you know how. My business nose never failed me yet - I'm always successful in business because I'm cautious but occasionally I know when to take a risk. You're good, I know it.
 
So, it is a little bit of a chicken and egg situation isn't it? Maybe a forum-only solution doesn't generate enough income/resources to produce further integrated products (Gallery, Blog, CMS). But on the other hand... if there would be a Blog, CMS and Gallery now or very soon... XenForo's sales will skyrocket just by these facts alone. I am totally convinced of that (for several reasons). XF will be able to attract so much disgruntled vBulletin owners for example. So very much. I am still reading (not participating anymore, mind you) the vBulletin.com forums once in a while and an huge amount of customers do not see XenForo as a serious alternative now, because of the simple facts that there is no Blog, no Gallery and no CMS.


I don’t necessarily see initial income needs to generate enough to rapidly move forward plans for additional developers, for additional features, it just needs to be enough to show the project is a ‘goer’, which I have little doubt it will.

Once that is proven there’s always the option to raise funds to speed-up development, although that could be difficult via, for example, the banks because of (a) they would struggle to understand what they were getting into and (b) UK banks are somewhat tight in lending to businesses at present.

However, there’s always the option of a ‘business angel’, these people invest in start-ups that they ‘get’ for a minority share as they don’t want to take ownership and motivation away from the people that started it. They tend to be very ‘hands-off’ in respect of the core business development, in this case the software, whilst offering their experience of running a business in more general terms, which can be very valuable.
 
I don't think we've ever stated that to be the future of XenForo.

I know :). Again... communication through postings is not always that easy... I was talking in the 'hypothetically' sense when I say: 'then the future of XenForo as a forum-only solution will be problematic, I'm afraid'. What I meant is ...' if XF is going to be a forum-only (for whatever reason: lack of resources is one of the reasons you stated for example), then the future will be...'.

Again, seeing how things are developing now... I wholeheartedly hope (and think) that many many boards owners will jump ship or choose XF for their new platforms. Even in it's current state. And hopefully that will generate enough resources to provide additional functionality that can compete with vBulletin and Invision so people are not depended any more on those platforms to provide an all-in-one solution for them. I can not wait. :)
 
There's no CMS, moving on ..

[unwatch] since some people can't seem to accept reality.
 
There's no CMS, moving on ..
Why? People are free to voice their opinions here.

Kier has made it clear that a cms can be done once the forum itself is stable.
He is also a strong supporter of free discussion - that was one of the key discontents "over there" that discussion was choked off or had no effect.
Attempts to squash people's freedom to discuss possibilities are very clearly against XF policy. So anyone joining this thread please don't be put off. Post away!
 
At the risk of simply stating what has been said before, consider our situation.
Kier, thanks once again for articulating your position. It's quite understandable imho, and I'm one of the guys who will probably or at least possibly have to stay with vB for a little longer because I do need a way to promote existing forum content to articles and allow comments in response.
If somebody can come up with a way to do that with the Pages mod you've already provided, plus perhaps a little more glue from some of the other astute talent in the XF community, I'd love to share XF with my community.
Meanwhile, I'll keep showing up here most likely, and keeping an eye on XF and the evolution of the 3rd party XF mod builders and see how it goes.
I hope you guys get paid WELL for this work. So far it's very cool as far as I'm concerned.
Cheers,
HJ
 
Kier that's spot on for what's needed. Thank you.
It's not the facts of your position that's frustrating it's not knowing what they are as in being left with a meaningless "maybe later."
There now I knew we could trust you to come through with a sensible statement.
I'd seriously suggest you put this or something very close to it up in the top section where there's a question about cms plans. Then we can all help by fielding further enquiries and direct them to your statement.
Yes please, Perhaps by using that cool Pages feature you >did< so graciously shoehorn into the current package lo, one afternoon.
 
CMS is in no way a deal breaker for me, after all a front page is something anyone can do, it would be nice to have that type of integration but, by far user friendliness is the thing that makes forums great. and I know that these people have the right way of thinking to accomplish that task.

The options are open source or vb lets face it. this is truly needed in the forum software market, and I myself will not hesitate to risk a little cash to broaden my horizons in the forum arena.
 
Let me clear up a few things, starting with content.

A CMS (Content Management System) is a mechanism in which the content and its media, pertinent to the site, is stored and can be manipulated: added, edited and deleted. These three basic functions form the core of a CMS. Such system may or may not include features to which the content may be presented to the user. However, the system does not offer additional features for specific requirements, such as forums. The system may provide provisions for textual content to be edited, adding in formatting where necessary to promote certain effects to the user. The system does not focus on entertaining a template system or a poll system. The CMS may give the option of how the content is displayed and delivered to the reader. Primarily, the system does not offer a feedback mechanism for content readers to communicate with the content authors/distributors. The platform does not provide social networking or other capabilities. These fall within the grounds of a complete Site Management System.

Take for example, my version of a CMS, as you may have seen earlier in the thread. All that piece of software does is provide a page for a user to add and edit "pages" or content. The editing interface is accompanied with a WYSIWYG editor, just to ensure that any content added is formatted correctly. Fields to define the page's meta information are provided. Basically, the minimum features a page should have to be successful. This is the basic and primary definition of a CMS.

To be clear, how much development have you done with a CMS, how far have you taken it with your projects?

I guess what I really want to see is a detailed case study to support why you’re against giving CMS (WP for exampe) the credit it deserves? But not just googling for answer and claim that you've defined whatsoever again. I don't want see yet another eassy either. I’m sure we could go back and forth forever with you giving reasons and me countering them.

Apparently I hit a third rail in the CMS world, because the comments kept flowing.

And, it still remains a vendor and consultant dominated landscape that you trying to frame the space based on the tools and put up artificial walls based on product price points or analyst quadrants/waves. And yes, I lump myself into that bucket, although I try my hardest to stay on the outside.

Don’t even get us started on what to call our space (SMS, WCM, CMS, BAH).
Nowadays, a CMS removes this requirement by providing an interface to which the user can publish data; direct from raw stimulus to web, visually formatted pages (as a style). CMSs these days may provide an "asset manager" to exert control over visual and aural stimuli. All CMSs do provide a template system, to which extent, is giving pathway towards a "Site Management System". Take for example, WordPress. It has CMS capabilities, however, it's feature-rich models gives it several other components. An example is plugins. Its plugin capability extends the possibilities to which the core software can be used for. We are seeing embedded forums etc. Wordpress provides both CMS and blogging facilities, the former, in the format of its pages system. Heck, what's tagging?

Unfortunately, these "CMS" devices are becoming ever bloated with extra features. Gone are the older days where the software didn't even know what search engine optimisation was. For some reason, SEO has exploded into the web. Content managers and indeed web masters are becoming lazy in promoting and performing basic SEO. Good SEO stems from the content itself. CMSs are adapting to providing a complete site solution, and not just focussing on content delivery and management itself.

You see.. . any topic with so many evangelists touting “How to use ABC as an XYZ”, probably means that either 1) ABC is admittedly not an XYZ, but it can be used in a similar fashion if tweaked or used in a certain way, or 2) ABC is not quite as intuitive as we might have thought, and these how-to videos, articles and blogs are required to educate users. I tend to think number one is more likely.

Well, the all-too-easy argument that WP is a system which manages web content; therefore it must not be a CMS. Sorry, this doesn’t hold water for me. Using that logic alone, toilet paper and disposable napkins are both paper towels. We know this doesn’t make sense, so let’s not get literal. I’ll grant you that the other term could be better defined--more on that later.

The argument that if someone uses WP as a WCMS, then that makes it one. If you’re being honest, it won’t take you more than ten seconds to come up with five examples of tchotchkes you use for unintended purposes.
 
Anything wrong with following up late? Everyone has their own live, so do I. Work, meeting, paper work, projects, home, dinner, sleep, then work again.. ..

whatnot! and I only have the free time mostly on weekends and I'm using part of it to follow up on some of the neglected posts.


I'm sorry if my reply annoyed you.
 
Top Bottom