Implement AMP Project framework
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Recep Baltaş
Well-known member
Then you are the 1%. Even I do not care if it's AMP or not.
Kevin
Well-known member
The only place I encounter them is from Google News, haven't seen any 'in the wild' elsewhere.
If I go down the AMP route the goal would be to have a Google News formatted feed of specifically flagged threads for the sole purpose of submitting them to Google News.
JoyFreak
Well-known member
Literally, same. It comes so handy to have AMP for news. Particularly for article thread types but people can extend if they wish.
mazzly
Well-known member
And that's your choice
- It doesn't really matter what you do, because google places the result higher, and the common smartphone user won't care/know what AMP is, they just know that the link that has the small
icon next to it will load the page instantly (yes instantly) and it will have less bloat like popups etc.Just because you don't like it (because of whatever reasons), shouldn't prevent the forum software from supporting a standard that helps pages load faster and ultimately rank better => grow your userbase
Sidenote: There is no reason we couldn't have the AMP pages mention on the top (could be optional feature & customizeable text):
"This is a minified version of this page, if you want to load the full page click here"
- That way Brogan can easily skip to the real page that he prefers.
The benefits to having AMP pages are very clear:
- Faster pages
- Less bloat
- Less risk for malicious JS (tracking, mining, what have you)
- Less server resources needed (pre-cached content from CDNs)
- Better Search engine Rankings
- Better growth (because more people visit your pages and some of them will engage with the content)
- And best of all: If you don't want AMP for your forum, then don't enable the feature (which is your loss)
- Google has initially created the standard (and still partly is involved), and "I don't like google".
- Some people don't like google, which is fine, but you have to be able to utilize the ecosystem they have built, because it will ultimately benefit you.
- Slightly offtopic: I've worked in a company where some devs didn't want to add the "sign in with google"-functionality to our app because "google is evil and will track everything", the fact still remained that it helped our users' onboarding vs just having a normal registration. => better growth => more profit. (which was very clear from analytics after we finally had it added..)
- Some people don't like google, which is fine, but you have to be able to utilize the ecosystem they have built, because it will ultimately benefit you.
- It would take some time to implement
- All features will take time to implement (this every dev knows). However, AMP is a very easy to implement for something that is as structured as a forum.. For a blog software like Wordpress it might be harder as content can vary wildly with various magical plugins etc (Somehow, even WP has an official AMP pugin...)
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mazzly
Well-known member
Quick google on my phone for "How to eat a banana":
First of the "web search"-results is an AMP link. Few more when scrolling down..
Kevin
Well-known member
Which has no bearing on what I said. If you're encountering them when searching then, hey, great, more power to 'ya or something, but at least in my searches (and others it would seem) they are not popping up.
mazzly
Well-known member
Fair enough, I see them, you don'tWhich has no bearing on what I said. If you're encountering them when searching then, hey, great, more power to 'ya or something, but at least in my searches (and others it would seem) they are not popping up.
(I just wanted to show that they also show up in the "normal" search results.)Even so, it still doesn't change the fact that AMP pages overall increases search engine rankings and organic growth for sites that have it enabled.
Here are some interesting study results regarding AMP (I'm not surprised as I myself saw major traffic growth when adding AMP on my other sites)
Source: Does AMP Improve Rankings, Engagement, and Conversion?
Even if you would only get 10% increase in traffic from having AMP enabled, that is still a hella lot of traffic and growth for your forum. And things like these compound. (more traffic => more users => more more discussions created => more possibility to rank for keywords => more traffic => ...)
I don't get the people here (forum owners) who argue against AMP, like, don't you want your forums to grow more?
djbaxter
in memoriam 1947-2022
Page experience: a Google ranking factor
In May 2022, Google launched new metrics called Web Vitals. Combining with existing experience factors, these will form the page experience update.
The writing has been on the while for some time now. AMP is headed for obsolescence.
Masetrix
Well-known member
That only appears to solve our problem.
We need AMP because the MobileStyle of XF is very slow compared to the Desktopstyle.
As long as XF doesn't change this, AMP will still be needed to compensate for this because MobileStyle-speed is still a big factor in ranking ...
Aayush
Well-known member
Page experience: a Google ranking factor
In May 2022, Google launched new metrics called Web Vitals. Combining with existing experience factors, these will form the page experience update.yoast.com
The writing has been on the while for some time now. AMP is headed for obsolescence.
That sounds great! I really hated AMP, I usually bounced back from the AMP page due to weird(in-coherent) scrolling behavior. I wish there were addons that redirected to non-amp versions of the websites. Are there any?
mazzly
Well-known member
I don't know if you skipped to read the rest of the article you linked, where it states exactly why AMP would be needed as part of the ranking factors.Page experience: a Google ranking factor
In May 2022, Google launched new metrics called Web Vitals. Combining with existing experience factors, these will form the page experience update.
The writing has been on the while for some time now. AMP is headed for obsolescence.
- All the things that AMP brings as a "side effect" of the more restricted markup, are part of the "Core Web Vitals" that google now priorititzes
And the nonsense about AMP being headed for obsolescence, really? People(skeptics) were saying that in 2016, and since then it has only grown and become better.
In the past year, the support for AMP pages in the top 10M domains has almost doubled (source)
- Why are the top 10M domains in the world adapting to a standard that, according to you, is becoming obsolete?
Hmm I'm not sure about you, but you seem a bit biased, having your own XenForo Native Mobile Apps extension you are selling..
What do you mean with the "weird(in-coherent) scrolling behavior."? I haven't noticed anything like that on any AMP page, and I have a nasty eye for details being a webdev myself..
Anyway, if you don't personally like AMP that is fine, you can choose to skip it.
- The fact still remains that fast pages (can't beat AMP in speed) will show higher up in search results (I'm not talking about "Top stories")
As for your addon question, I spent like 5s googling to find this, which should be what you are asking for: https://www.ghacks.net/2019/08/29/d...rome-with-the-redirect-amp-to-html-extension/
There still hasn't been any good argument against AMP apart from biased / Personal (I don't like it) reasons, while the benefits are very clear from an "I own a forum and want to grow my community"-point of view.
- And let's face it, most people on here own/manage some forum and want to grow their communities... right?
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Aayush
Well-known member
My opinions could be biased towards PWAs but why AMP. Even re: PWAs it's not biased, PWAs have come a long way since 2017 when we came out with ForumApps. iOS is just stupid for not providing good support for it.
ForumApps serves a very different use case than what AMP serves.
Wanted one for mobile, not desktop, lucky Google doesn't serve amp on desktop. But if it doesn't exist, could make an app for that.
Re: AMP
Excuse my naivety here as I am not knowledgable with AMP and everything below is my personal opinion. Sure, speed matters, but what's the point when the user is just going to bounce back in the next 5 seconds. With all the AMP pages, I go to the page and bounce back, never performed any action. I don't have the numbers to back this and maybe it's different for other people, but this is what I personally do. I don't know about you but that scroll always feels different. I have seen some addons that add AMP support to XF but haven't seen how they do it.
But I'm guessing they don't promote engagement, they just increase page views from Google Search(part of the reason is that Google wants to promotes its own technology and increase your websites reliance on it and in turn solidifying Google's own search engine monopoly since it owns the tech).
Sure it's a good exploit to get your Google SEO pumped. It works if only a handful are doing it and it doesn't if everyone is doing it. Even with that, I don't seem to see any pages in my Google search other than NYTimes, Yahoo News and similar news site popping to the top. They would've already showed up at the top regardless, based on what I was searching and their existing SEO.
I find it hilarious when someone throws vanity metrics around that don't show the whole picture. "Doubled in 1 year" XD
0.1% is 10k.
It just went from 5k to 10k.
Now the real truth about top 10M sites. That is a huge number!
I have several domains that don't get more than 10 visitors a month and they are in the top 5 Million. That gives me eerie vibes about the bottom 5 Million websites. You could literally buy a domain, install WP, add 1 post, install the AMP addon and be listed in the top 10M. Growing from 5k to 10k after 3 years is hilarious even after Google's capital and SEO fear-mongering behind it.
Disclaimer: This part is based on the W3Tech source @mazzly provided mixed with logical calculation. I didn't do any additional research.
mazzly
Well-known member
Ahh then you are probably out of luck.. yeah make an app, only thing is that you probably would have to code a fully-fledged web browser for itWanted one for mobile, not desktop, lucky Google doesn't serve amp on desktop. But if it doesn't exist, could make an app for that.
If the user bounces back within 5s, then your forum thread/post/content is not relevant to the search anyway. (So google will stop showing your page for the search keyword sooner or later)
Yes, here is the problem, you != everyone.
- As long as the content (a forum thread in this case) is discussing what the user is searching for, they will continue reading/engaging with the page, if not the result was not relevant
Are you sure you know what AMP is? Because it shouldn't affect the scrolling in any way. It is very basic and semantic HTML that only allows very minimal JS things. (Or maybe some pages you are browsing has some JS-smooth-scrolling-thingmabob?)
What you "Feel" is not really relevant and unless you can actually prove that it is different between AMP and "regular HTML", it doesn't matter.
Yes, improving SEO will give you the competitive edge. (Up to 27% mobile increase just by enabling AMP as per Does AMP Improve Rankings, Engagement, and Conversion?)
- @Aayush Don't you feel that this would be relevant and easy way to grow your own forum/community? (i.e. enable the SEO option for AMP and get that extra traffic to your forum?)
Again, this is your personal anecdotal evidence. And again: It is not just the "top stories" that we are talking about, we are talking about all search results (top stories, search snippets, normal seach results etc etc)
If you have a niched forum, NYTimes, Yahoo news, etc etc won't be your competitors, so you won't compete with "The big dogs".
You will surely have other competitors (Which are not big established companies), and if you have a competitive advantage (AMP) over those competitors, you will get more of the traffic related to that niche's keywords. And then you get this nice flow:
- AMP will show you higher in search results (this is not even debatable), and that leads to
- More traffic, which leads to
- More registered users, which leads to
- A more active forum/community which is equal to:
- More relevant content posted around your niche, which leads to
- More keywords you can rank for in search results, which leads to
- More traffic
When it comes to websites and domains, 10M sites is not a huge number at all. There are some estimates 200-400M active websites and 1.7-2B total if you do some quick research.
See, now I know you are just lying
you won't get into Alexa Top 10M unless you do at least some work..Simply making a WP install and making one post, won't do that for you, literally
As an example here are some stats for some of my sites:
| Domain Age | Type | Pages (indexed) | Visitors daily | Alexarank |
| 4yr | content site | ~13.3K | ~10K | ~89K |
| 3yr | microservice | 26 | ~500 | ~932K |
| 21yr | forum + wiki | ~26K | ~800 | ~1.6M |
| 5yr | WB blog (that once upon a time had many visitors) | 33 | ~20 | ~6.9M |
| 3yr | microservice | ~2.7K | ~150 | n/a (i.e. over 30M) |
| 3yr | microservice | ~17K | ~100 | n/a (i.e. over 30M) |
| 4yr | WP affiliate site | 27 | ~10 | n/a (i.e. over 30M) |
According to Alexa themselves, they won't show AR if the site's score is less than 30M:
You saying you would get into top 10M with a single post is just a lie... Sorry
Aayush
Well-known member
Content-blockers might work. Not sure
true
yes, that’s why it’s my personal opinion.
Don’t know why people think traffic=growth. But in most cases it’s not. In some cases it gives the site owner an ego boost. I don’t know what it is for your forum/community. But engaged community > any SEO hack or any hack in general. Google would automatically list your site at the top of you provide value and your community is actually helping people.
Google was built to help people find what they are looking for faster. Your website wasn’t built so that optimization for Google visibility is the end goal.
That pure marketing material. It’s like publishing an article on ForumApps about how mobile apps are the next big thing and everyone should have ForumApps. Might be true might not be. But while pursuing my Masters, I’ve realized how research papers are manipulated to get results that will get your paper published, so I don’t buy anything that article says without experimenting it myself.
Sound great!
Why would I?See, now I know you are just lying
Bonus: I went to Alexa and typed in a random website. Second click, found this website
Amazon Alexa
www.alexa.com
This is their website right now. They are not even using a SSL
Anyways, back to the topic, why don’t people just buy the add on from third party developer that’s been out there for quite some time now?
djbaxter
in memoriam 1947-2022
See, now I know you are just lying
1. When you start calling someone a liar, as far as I'm concerned anything else you might say no longer matters.
2. Why would anyone care about being in "Alexa Top 10M"? Alexa has never been a meaningful metricit surfe isn't meaningful today.
There you go again, calling someone a liar.
That won't gain you any credibility or respect here or anywhere else.
mazzly
Well-known member
Okay, so research results that don't fit your standpoint is false.. great..
Yeah that was never the question..
Regardless if you have an engaged forum or not, having AMP will show you higher up in search results compared to having the same forum without AMP.
Of course you should as a forum owner also try to improve all other things, but it still doesn't change the fact that with all else equal, AMP will be shown higher up than non-AMP due to it improving various things that are ranking signals...
Why wouldn't we want to have both?:
Engaged community AMP pages to bring more people into your Engaged communityAgain, why can't you have both?
In the case of forum threads and posts, the content is very structured and therefore easy to "lay up" in AMP as well.
Well you are saying something that I strongly believe isn't possible as if it was a fact.Why would I?
Bonus: I went to Alexa and typed in a random website. Second click, found this website
Oh and that website: what??? Just because the site is currently down it can't have a good Alexa rank. (Try putting it into the Wayback Machine)
- If Xenforo.com goes down today, does that mean that it should not be able to have an Alexa rank of 8421 ?
Can you link to this plugin and where to buy it? please
For Xf1.5 there was one and I had it in use before upgrading to Xf2, there was another Xf2 plugin but it doesn't seem to be for sale.
I would gladly pay 50$ for an addon like this. (Either to Xenforo as an extra to my license, or to some 3rd party dev)
1. Yeah you are right, it might've been slightly childish, although not uncalled for as he is simply stating something as if it was a fact, when I don't think that would be possible at all. (Creating a WP blog, making 1 post, adding AMP plugin, and somehow getting it to be in Alexa top 10M)
- Therefore I called him a liar.
2. It was never a question about being in Alexa top 10M tho.
- he tried to say (without any proof) that Alexa top 10M can contain any crappy site and that it therefore is a bad gauge about big sites supporting AMP
btw, both those instances of calling him a liar were about the same thing
Anyway, lets skip the "he said she said" and ask you a very simple question @djbaxter @Aayush:
On your forums, wouldn't you want to be able to simply enable a SEO option, and bring in a lot more traffic without having to do anything else?
- Try to disconnect from the fact that you personally don't click AMP links because you dislike them.
- Lets also assume that your forums are already well engaged from before
Aayush
Well-known member
So, I'm building one for XF 2.2+.
Continuing the discussion here:
xenforo.com
Continuing the discussion here:
AMP for XenForo 2.2
After the long discussion here: https://xenforo.com/community/threads/implement-amp-project-framework.106501/ I've decided to implement AMP addon compatible with XenForo 2.2. I am yet to do market research on what is expected so I'm hoping that this community will be helpful in providing...
xenforo.com
Recep Baltaş
Well-known member
I know that my competitors are following my account here but since they are boomer than me, they always lack behind. So, I have no problem sharing this data with you. For those who still can not comprehend the importance of AMP, I would like to show you that of all the 346K sessions on our website, 85K of it was AMP! And this is daily...
Need I say more?
Need I say more?
Aayush
Well-known member
What I'm more interested in is, if they convert/register.
Recep Baltaş
Well-known member
I really do not care. I said before here in this very same thread. 95% of the users will not contribute to your forum. But if you want to know the answer, yes, they do register. We are growing constantly.
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