If you thought GDPR is a joke, joke's on you

They are not sites worth visiting
A&E Networks (history.com and several other similar sites)?
New York Times? LA Times? Chicago Tribune? Funny, plenty of people get their news from them.
https://gizmodo.com/dozens-of-american-news-sites-blocked-in-europe-as-gdpr-1826319542
https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/us-news-sites-block-european-readers/
(both about the same group of newspapers)
I guess if you were strictly concerned with the EU you would not be visiting their sites..... but they aren't doing it because their doing something "fishy" with data. They are doing it because the can't currently comply with the GDPR and found it easier to block incoming connections from the EU.
Then you have what the GDPR compliant version of the NPR for those that don't want to be tracked.
 
That button essentially moves your data to a separate server and puts you in a separate encrypted database that can't be accessed except by high level staff. The only data of yours that remains on the main server is the argon2id hashed password, email, and your username in order to let you log back in. But, those are never used for data processing so they're pretty irrelevant.
Hmm .. now you got me completely confused.
XenForo does not (yet) use Argon2, email & username (and ip addresses) are the only personal data available on a standard XenForo, so what yrwe you talking about?
H how exactly do you "restrict" processing of this data if you just leave it in place?
How do you handle threads created by a restricted user?
If you move all of the user data out of the production database (which is basically a deletion and not what the law wants you to do, it specifically states that data must not be deleted), what happens to those threads (which could contain thousands of pots by completely unrelated users)?
 
Hmm .. now you got me completely confused.
XenForo does not (yet) use Argon2, email & username (and ip addresses) are the only personal data available on a standard XenForo, so what yrwe you talking about?
H how exactly do you "restrict" processing of this data if you just leave it in place?
How do you handle threads created by a restricted user?
If you move all of the user data out of the production database (which is basically a deletion and not what the law wants you to do, it specifically states that data must not be deleted), what happens to those threads (which could contain thousands of pots by completely unrelated users)?

Our software stack is pre-XenForo and so, like I mentioned earlier, I've got my own account service that I use instead ;)

The "six hours" that I mentioned is actually mostly work on the other pieces of software we have. Like I was saying, this is for an MMO video game. So, there's a lot of users, a lot of real-time and private chat and conversation that needs to be handled correctly, etc. Even for us, it wasn't a big deal. GDPR compliance is more of an issue for companies that make their money by selling users (directly/indirectly) instead of selling products.

So, yes, this is not a normal XenForo install. I don't personally see much point in using XenForo to handle registrations as our software fits our needs better while also not locking me to a particular forum software.

Anyway, as far as how it is restricted, like I said, it's all moved into a situation that makes it almost impossible to make use of that data; it's on totally separate machines, encrypted, and not accessible by the same set of staff. So, processing is therefore considered to be restricted.

Temporarily moving the data, as we have done, is one of the methods recommended by the ICO. Essentially, it's not considered deletion because you can restore it and intend on restoring it. It's a totally valid method of complying (y)

For posts and threads go, those are not personal data. So, we just temporarily rename the author of said content until the user has been restored.


It appears that most of those are back up again. Anyway, though, I have to agree with @Arty; if you don't want to comply, I'm very curious as to what you're doing with my data.
 
I am somewhat inclined to say that this is pure FUD.
There is nothing in the proposal that suggest a tax on links, but a fee for displaying snippets.

I also can't find anything that says content filters would be mandatory.

For those who prefer 1st party sources:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:52016PC0593&from=EN
It's referred to as a link tax - not officially, point given, I should have put in "" as the source does, but oh well. A fee for displaying snippets is the same as a tax because displaying snippets is essential for the Internet not only as a whole but also in its sheer components to work (any media <- social media <- chats <- groups <- accounts as an example). IANAL, so it's hard for me to boil down how exactly Article 11 proposes a "link tax", but you can read more on that here:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/04/european-copyright-law-isnt-great-it-could-soon-get-lot-worse
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawo...-link-tax-no-exceptions-allowed/#1c2c059113c9
https://savethelink.org/me
https://www.communia-association.or...ight-publishers-right-link-tax-bad-idea-name/

And these are heavily-trusted sources. To put it short, my point was focused around natural social behaviour and social media, including blogs, shops, streams and independent sites with community interactions. Which is not suprisingly almost all of the Internet.
All of them need to display links and all of them usually need to display an excerpt or quote from within that link - why is that?
Because https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:52016PC0593&from=EN this is not appealing at all and not how we, the users, link content (unsure what content to expect), nor we, the service providers, want content to be linked as (SEO, usability, etc.).
This is how we want to link: Proposal for a DIRECTIVE OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL on copyright in the Digital Single Market (note: it's not the public page title)
And that's already a quote. No rich-snippet with favicon, picture preview and/or content preview needed. A simple quote is enough. Right now, this would definitely fall at least under fair-use, but with "link tax", good-bye links.
Sources above.
tl;dr: This is about to change the Internet with the proposed "link tax".

Mandatory filter system, Article 13:
Use of protected content by information society service providers storing and giving access to large amounts of works and other subject-matter uploaded by their users
[...]
Those measures, such as the use of effective content recognition technologies, shall be appropriate and proportionate. The service providers shall provide rightholders with adequate information on the functioning and the deployment of the measures, as well as, when relevant, adequate reporting on the recognition and use of the works and other subject-matter.
This requires a content filter system, it's not possible without.
So no FUD at all anywhere.
 
It appears that most of those are back up again. Anyway, though, I have to agree with @Arty; if you don't want to comply, I'm very curious as to what you're doing with my data.
Personally...absolutely nothing but using it on my site. My problem is the judicial over-reach and the sheer hubris of the EU to think that their "laws" trump other countries laws.
 
A fee for displaying snippets is the same as a tax because displaying snippets is essential for the Internet not only as a whole but also in its sheer components to work
No matter how you try to twist it - a fee payable to another privaty entity is a fee, not a tax payable to the state.
Furthermore, a snippet is not at all required to share links - in your post you shared 5 links. None of them contained a snippet and hence none of them would be subject to any fee.

Because https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:52016PC0593&from=EN this is not appealing at all and not how we, the users, link content
Oh contrary, this is exactly how users tend to share links, they just copy & paste URLs.
What social media sites (as well as XenForo for example) did built on top of just sharing those links is code to fetch more data and display it in a nice way.
While this is, well, nice to have, it is not neccesary for information sharing.

And that's already a quote. No rich-snippet with favicon, picture preview and/or content preview needed. A simple quote is enough. Right now, this would definitely fall at least under fair-use, but with "link tax", good-bye links.
Again, this is just FUD. Nobody is going to stop links, all that is proposed is about snippents which are not required to share links.

This requires a content filter system, it's not possible without.
So no FUD at all anywhere.
FUD :)
That quote just gives an example of what could be done, it no way does it stat it has to be done that way.

While those articles 11) and 13) are not exactly great ideas (the whole idea of copyright simply does not work in an all-digital world and we are still trying to "fix" it instead of accepting that we basically have to give up on it), it's not doomsday for the web.
 
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Oh contrary, this is exactly how users tend to share links, they just copy & paste URLs.
What social media sites (as well as XenForo for example) did built on top of just sharing those links is code to fetch more data and display it in a nice way.
While this is, well, nice to have, it is not neccesary for information sharing.
So you think things were better back in the 90s when there was no such thing as rich media?

Are you seriously claiming that instead of writing new standards for rich media embeds that can benefit both the content creator and the person wishing to share their content, we should impose a fee?

Because if you are, that has got to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen posted on this forum and (especially surrounding the GDPR) I've seen some pretty ridiculous things.

Scenario 1: Someone links to a news article. The site's implementation of the Rich Media Snippet standard asks the News Source web server for the preview snippet. The server returns "Earlier today, news happened. Read more at News Source." User is intrigued, clicks article. News source receives hits and ad revenue. Everyone is happy.

Scenario 2: Someone wants to link to a news article. Unfortunately, the website owner did not pay the Rich Media License, and as such has disallowed rich media links. User then manually copies parts of the article because random links with no context gets fewer clicks than your average spam email. User gets banned for posting copyrighted content.

Are you legitimately and unironically saying that Scenario 2 is preferable? Surely no-one that actually uses the internet (as opposed to getting paid to regulate it) is that dumb.

Maybe I just have too much faith in humanity, but Christ alive, this shouldn't be a point of contention between internet users.


Fillip
 
It doesn't really matter if it was better or not and what I may (or may not) think about rich media.

Point is I do think that claims a fee on displaying snippets would mean the end of the (internet) world as we know it is uncalled for-
The world wide web did exist before social media, before rich media embeds and it will most likely continue to exist even without rich media embeds.

Are you legitimately and unironically saying that Scenario 2 is preferable?
I don't expect scenario 2 to happen often (if at all); if the software does not do an embed, the user will just go with a plain link.
Or do you see users manually trying to craft Twitter-looking embeds on XF 1.5?
I don't, they just paste URLs to tweets.
 
don't expect scenario 2 to happen often (if at all); if the software does not do an embed, the user will just go with a plain link.
Actually... I frequently do this - it's referred to an an excerpt and is frequently used to get your point across - with a referral back to the originating article. Of course, I don't use the "first few lines" but the applicable portion of the article that may refer to what my discussion is about.
 
Simply by threatening to fine me if one of their member state "citizens" decide to visit my site and I haven't advertised for any EU business, nor do I have a physical presence in the EU.

But you have a digital presence there? That is the point where their rules apply, but they don't apply in the US or "trump" US laws.

Best thing would be to restrict your site to the US maybe like may are doing.
 
Simply by threatening to fine me if one of their member state "citizens" decide to visit my site and I haven't advertised for any EU business, nor do I have a physical presence in the EU.

You come into my house, you follow my rules. I come into YOUR house and I follow your rules. My house just happens to be in the US - not the EU.

It's not really comparable to physical places, though. You're using a globally connected network. Unless you're explicitly putting in the effort to say no to people, you're inherently saying "yes, feel free to come in".
 
But you have a digital presence there? That is the point where their rules apply, but they don't apply in the US or "trump" US laws.

Best thing would be to restrict your site to the US maybe like may are doing.
No, I don't have a "digital presence there. They actually have to come to the server where I have a "digital presence". No server, no digital footprint, no visit. And guess where that happens to be... in the US, not in any jurisdictional location controlled by the EU.
And no, many arguments are that simply having a VISITOR from the EU come the site then makes you liable.
And as for the argument of "digital presence"... that's no different than phone company "rules". just because you have a "device" does not make you subject to the worlds laws at the whim of that farce they call a court/legislative branch.
 
you're inherently saying "yes, feel free to come in".
With the inherent understanding that you also abide by my rules... not your rules.
Can't have the cake and eat it also.

You're using a globally connected network.
And THAT boys and girls is why you have to use the jurisdictional aspect of the endpoint, not the origination.

Anyone that believes a site, just because they are connected to the internet, is responsible for following every law of every country and every state/county/local jurisdiction that has internet access really needs to put the glass pipe back down.
 
Anyone that believes a site, just because they are connected to the internet, is responsible for following every law of every country and every state/county/local jurisdiction that has internet access really needs to put the glass pipe back down.

And the government boot they lick.
 
Actually... I frequently do this - it's referred to an an excerpt and is frequently used to get your point across - with a referral back to the originating article. Of course, I don't use the "first few lines" but the applicable portion of the article that may refer to what my discussion is about.

Its very common on some of the forums I visit for users to cut/paste entire content.
 
No matter how you try to twist it - a fee payable to another privaty entity is a fee, not a tax payable to the state.
Furthermore, a snippet is not at all required to share links - in your post you shared 5 links. None of them contained a snippet and hence none of them would be subject to any fee.
Not gonna go into the "fee" debate, just read the post you quoted again.
To clarify, though, when I use the word "snippet", I literally mean a snippet, an excerpt, a piece of something, and not a rich-media snippet. If I'm talking about a rich-media snippet, I will mark it as that. So my point still stands - a snippet is required. Why?

Because if you're quoting something (= snippet), you have to give credits (obviously) - if you share the link (plain text link), then the link + quote fall under the "link tax". And that's inevitable unless you are solely creating your whole content. And that again is not how the internet, how social media and every component of that again works. Fair Use is a big player here.

If you don't quote something, just share a link, well, the plain link does not suit our current internet, see above or below. And you are not allowed to use rich-media snippets (e.g. auto title conversion) unless you are eligible for that.
Oh contrary, this is exactly how users tend to share links, they just copy & paste URLs.
What social media sites (as well as XenForo for example) did built on top of just sharing those links is code to fetch more data and display it in a nice way.
While this is, well, nice to have, it is not neccesary for information sharing.
Absolutely wrong. Usually people on social platforms (not only social media) without automatic link conversion post links with own descriptors (this is a link to google) or they use an excerpt as I did above (Proposal for a DIRECTIVE OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL on copyright in the Digital Single Market) (yes, that actually was a snippet).
Writing your own titles is completely fine, but it's still a major throwback and changing the internet even without you quoting any content. And displaying plain text links is bad for everyone, not only users, but also the whole internet. SEO and usability suffer from that, as mentioned above, and I'm pretty sure there are more fields which would suffer from a "link tax" aswell.
Plus, usually shops don't just drop a link. That's unprofessional and makes reading texts and gathering information really hard. Same applies to blogs. "Further reading here", "quoted from here", "download here".
Again, this is just FUD. Nobody is going to stop links, all that is proposed is about snippents which are not required to share links.
No, it applies to quotes, which require credits, which require links, aswell, which is pretty the exact case described above (link to the proposal with a snippet from within the proposal). Sharing plain text or custom links is probably fine, but then again, that's not our current internet.
FUD :)
That quote just gives an example of what could be done, it no way does it stat it has to be done that way.
That quote is the definition of content filtering. User uploaded content which needs to be monitored and censored for whatever reason - that's what you call a content filter system. Here's how YT's content filter currently works: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797370?hl=en
This is an example of how content filtering could work. And something like that would be required for many more.
While those articles 11) and 13) are not exactly great ideas (the whole idea of copyright simply does not work in an all-digital world and we are still trying to "fix" it instead of accepting that we basically have to give up on it), it's not doomsday for the web.
It is, unless you still haven't understood that simple quoting plus linking for giving proper credits already would fall under a "link tax". To top that, rich-media snippets are vital for our current internet experience.
Additionally, content getting auto-rejected because your platform does not hold the rights - even though your work currently would be totally legal under Fair Use - is a pretty stupid censorship. This kills independent and small YouTubers, Bloggers and so many more.
It's even a big problem for news media itself: only big companies would be able to afford the "link tax". This means good-bye opinion and discussion folks. This means RIP freedom of speech.

I don't know how anyone could not describe this as the doomsday of the web - it definitely is. This is not the internet we currently use, it's throwing us back many decades. And it's killing stuff which is pretty essential for a modern society.
 
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