Do you support the immigration law like Arizona?

[Forsaken]

Very true Forsaken.
Im a Republican, and i detest any system that forces anyone in this country to have to identify themselves or fear prosecution.
There has to be reasonable doubt to a crime, and if the crime is illegal immigration then the reasonable doubt has no limit.
Cops could stop any random white person and ask for their identification because they could be an immigrant from England on an overstayed visa. So then "reasonable doubt" would mean nothing as anyone in the country could theoretically fall under its auspices.
So the cops by nature will instead selectively enforce reasonable doubt on brown people who look poor, as being poor and being brown are the two main prerequisites of an illegal alien.
And while racial profiling is as common by police as entrapment... it would suck even more if it was sanctioned and made legal.

The law was passed by republicans for the most part, as much of AZ is primarily republican.

 

[Ruven]

The law was passed by republicans for the most part, as much of AZ is primarily republican.

Dont i know it.
The party has not been very well represented there, and most everywhere else the past decade or so.

 

[Forsaken]

Dont i know it.
The party has not been very well represented there, and most everywhere else the past decade or so.

Democrats are more like the older style of republic, though I don't agree with everything they do as well, and many of them are just as bigoted.

I've given up on American politics, its apparent nothing good comes from it .

 

[HannahP]

Identification will be a moot point when the socialist Obama death machine involuntarily implants RFID into all of us. You think it's not going to happen? It's already happening! Your dentist implanted it last time you were in his or her chair. You didn't even notice because they have mind control frequencies in those easy listening radio stations that are always playing in dental offices. Regular cleaning? Annual checkup? Think again.

 

[Forsaken]

Identification will be a moot point when the socialist Obama death machine involuntarily implants RFID into all of us. You think it's not going to happen? It's already happening! Your dentist implanted it last time you were in his or her chair. You didn't even notice because they have mind control frequencies in those easy listening radio stations that are always playing in dental offices. Regular cleaning? Annual checkup? Think again.

Having seen secret documentation; this will be happening through access of the anus.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Having seen secret documentation; this will be happening through access of the anus.

you said anus

 

[whitetigergrowl]

I love how illegal immigrants are getting labeled only as immigrants. Thats a big slight of hand. Immigrants are those that come here legally have done their part to become legal citizens. By calling illegal immigrants just immigrants is a slap in the face to those that have done things the right and legal way.

Also whats worse is that many don't want to assimilate into American culture. They basically just want the U.S. to be Mexico 2, China 2, Saudi Arabia 2, etc.. They don't care about our history, culture, or really anything else and like to just wave their native land pride around in our faces. And the fact that politicians have to talk to and pander to specific ethnic groups is horrid. Because then it becomes an issue more of race or religion than of just being an American.

There is also a belief that because they work here, that they are spending more money here. That is false. A good chunk of that money is sent back to their native land to their families and never sees its way back into our system. It would be like if I owned a business and gave you $20 to spend in hopes you would spend much of it there. But you only spend $3 there and give the rest to others to spend elsewhere. How does that benefit the business? It doesn't.

Its also been shown that areas where illegal immigration are higher generally also have higher crime rates, lower property values, and lower wages.

Whats worse is also when you have illegal immigrants that think they should have more rights or all the same rights and privileges as American citizens.Many American citizen attitudes are being forged by things such as this. You don't cross the border illegally into Mexico or Canada and not expect consequences.

The Arizona law isn't perfect. But the fact remains it's not much different than the actual federal law which also requires you to carry papers if you are an immigrant. The fact is, what is ticking American citizens off is this blatant attitude many illegals seem to have that they can skirt the system and shouldn't have to pay the consequences. And if they have to all of a sudden it's not because they knowingly broke the law coming here but because according to them we're just being racist. They can't even take responsibility for their own actions. They will walk downtown LA with the Mexican flag waving thinking they are just as entitled as everyone else. Simply put, they aren't. And I don't of any other country they would be either. It would be like walking Mexico City waving the American flag demanding things. What do you think would end up happening.

I support the Arizona law. If it keeps legal citizens safer and lowers crime and other problems, then yes, I'm all for it. Some people single out the Arizona law, but the fact is most every law out there allows for some form of racism.

There is an old saying that you reap what you sow.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the first place we should insist that the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equity with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming an American and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any flag of a nation to which we are hostile. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." Theodore Roosevelt in a letter to the American Defense Society in 1919.

"Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or to leave the country," he said in a statement to the Kansas City Star in 1918. "English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools."

 

[HannahP]

Also whats worse is that many don't want to assimilate into American culture.

I know exactly what you mean. My great great grandmother was Oglala Sioux and she said the same thing about all the illegal immigrants that came to her country starting in the 1500s. Things haven't changed much, have they.

 

[FreshFroot]

oh, don't get me wrong, I love learning new languages and interacting with people in a new way, but it bugs me that I HAVE to learn 'em just to be able to shop in my local stores or check in to a hotel. Not to mention being passed up for a job because the other lady knew 2 other languages fluently. I just wish things were more simple. I'm a creature of habit I guess. That can be a bad thing sometimes.

I guess your lazy then.. what's so bad about learning something new? You must lack poor motivation then.... start channeling some positive energy.

 

[Sherri]

I kinda think you missed my point. I am about the farthest thing from lazy as it comes. LOL
It bothers me only that I'm forced to learn another language just to check out in the grocery store when I feel that if people are going to come to my country, make a life here and find employment, they should learn our native language of "english" here. Not force me to learn their language in order to do everyday things that I have always done, and done by speaking my own native tongue.

This really isn't a big issue for me. I have never even stated my thoughts on this out loud because it's not important to me. It certainly doesn't warrant anyone throwing insults at me. I get that this is a "touchy" subject, but calling someone lazy and throwing insults because of an opinion is something I must have mistakenly assumed was not a part of this community. (guess I was wrong)

Either way, I think it's time I bow out gracefully and exit the conversation. Lesson well learned. I will stay clear of any topics that involve voicing opinions on politics.

My sincere apologies to anyone that may have found my opinion offensive in some way. Although, I'm not sure I understand how it could have been.

And to assure you all I'm not "lazy", I speak english, spanish and french quite fluently.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

I know exactly what you mean. My great great grandmother was Oglala Sioux and she said the same thing about all the illegal immigrants that came to her country starting in the 1500s. Things haven't changed much, have they.

Considering that was over 500 years ago and things are much much much different now.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

I guess your lazy then.. what's so bad about learning something new? You must lack poor motivation then.... start channeling some positive energy.

Same could be the same for people coming into my country and forcing me to assimilate to there culture and if I dont I am racist. Thats like me going into your house and telling you how to do things.

 

[HannahP]

Considering that was over 500 years ago and things are much much much different now.

You miss the point, kimosabe. America was founded by illegal immigrants. They didn't assimilate, they just took whatever they wanted and spread disease and religion (if you consider those to be separate things) everywhere they went. Considering that you don't have to be on the receiving end of that, having to learn a few Spanish phrases isn't so bad now, is it?

Whether the world is "much much much different now" or not doesn't change the fact that xenophobia (look it up, it's an interesting word) is a dangerous thing.

 

[whitetigergrowl]

You miss the point, kimosabe. America was founded by illegal immigrants. They didn't assimilate, they just took whatever they wanted and spread disease and religion (if you consider those to be separate things) everywhere they went. Considering that you don't have to be on the receiving end of that, having to learn a few Spanish phrases isn't so bad now, is it?

Whether the world is "much much much different now" or not doesn't change the fact that xenophobia (look it up, it's an interesting word) is a dangerous thing.

Again, that argument is old, worn out, and was hundreds of years ago. Holding us accountable today for actions none of us were there for is like the Kiowa holding the Lakota responsible for the massacre of their people and demanding their old hunting lands back. Thats like saying 300 years from now how the stuff they are doing then is right because of how we are doing things now, no matter how wrong it really is. Makes almost no logical sense. All we know is what we have been told. NONE of us, our parents, grandparents, great grandparents, great great grandparents, or even great great great grandparents were alive then. All we know is what was written (subjectively or not) in books, news articles, and folklore. I'm 100% positive there is so much we don't know and aren't aware of that happened at that time. The world is not a black and white place. Many times we miss the whole story and bigger picture and try creating an image from that although it may be distorted. You can beat that drum all you want. Someday it won't be whites you have to worry about anymore anyways. It'll some other ethnic group. So that gravy train will come to a dead stop.

The world then and the world now are 2 almost completely different worlds. I can all but guarantee if you could go back in time with what you have learned now, they would think you were crazy. No different than if people from 300 years in the future came back and listened to your ideals, how they would think you were crazy. Trying to tie what happened 300 years ago and use it to justify actions today is just silly and stupid IMO. Back then it was not a nation of laws. Native tribes killed and slaughtered each other somewhat frequently before the appearance of the white man. But I guess it was ok when they only did it to themselves right?

The Lakota were driven from Minnesota by the Chippewa into the plains. They slaughtered and killed men, women, and children on their journey. Destroying tribes such as the Kiowa, the Omaha, the Ponca, the Oto and the Pawnee and taking their land on the journey from Minnesota to the west across the plains. What the white man did at that time I guess was no different than what the tribes had been doing to each other for thousands of years. Just because the Lakota for example wiped out other tribes and claimed those tribes lands as now theirs because Wakan Tanka claimed it to be, doesn't mean it was any more right or justified. Killing someone is killing someone regardless of ethnicity. Taking someone elses land for no other reason that what someone may feel is a religious or ethic right doesn't make it any less different. Just because a Chippewa tribe may have wiped out another tribe and taken their lands and goods for no other reason that out of anger or some sort of right, doesn't make it any less right than if a group of whites had done it. Same car, just a different color. But I digress.

Also, I absolutely hate this broad brush you are painting with. Just because something happened 300 years ago, doesn't mean it should be justified into todays world. We can't go back in time and fix things. All we can do is move forward.

What many people are missing is the bigger picture. America is setting itself up for a major civil and likely racial war because various ethnicitys and even religious groups, don't want to assimilate. They all want things catered specifically to them for various reasons. Rather than doing it for the good of the whole they want it only for themselves. Because according to them they deserve it for any number of reasons. And when they are told to assimilate and learn our culture and history if they want to live here, they take offense at that and want us to learn theirs instead and start to get more aggressive about it. The blacks feel they are deserved things. The Native Americans feel they are deserved things. Whites feel it, etc.. It's not about America or being American. It's about me and only me and my people it seems. That fractures America. It does not create unity of any kind and only further encourages things like racism and a broken society.

Illegal immigration is compounding this problem. It creates a system of no checks and balances. What happened 300 years ago will be nothing but a minor footnote in history compared to what is coming if things don't change. This country 300 years ago is not the same country now. The fact is it is becoming less of what is best for America and Americans, and more of what is right for me and my people. Whoever they may be.

Here is a small part of a famous speech by JFK. A Democrat for those unaware.:

"In your hands, my fellow citizens, more than in mine, will rest the final success or failure of our course. Since this country was founded, each generation of Americans has been summoned to give testimony to its national loyalty. The graves of young Americans who answered the call to service surround the globe.

Now the trumpet summons us again - not as a call to bear arms, though arms we need; not as a call to battle, though embattled we are - but a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle, year in and year out, "rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation" - a struggle against the common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease, and war itself.

Can we forge against these enemies a grand and global alliance, North and South, East and West, that can assure a more fruitful life for all mankind? Will you join in that historic effort?

In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shank from this responsibility - I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavour will light our country and all who serve it -- and the glow from that fire can truly light the world.

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.

My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.

Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own. "

<<< Illegal Immigrants should be made to follow this code if they wish to live in America. Or are Americans just willingly going to hand over the U.S. to others that do not care about the U.S. and it's heritage and history. That just want to shape the U.S. into their image of what it should be.

Illegal Immigration has almost zero benefits. Especially if they keep sending money they make to other countries, as well as lower property values, wages, and increase crime in the U.S..

I just want to know why someone that is working hard at becoming a legal immigrant and assimilating into America and learning its history and language should be overshadowed by those wishing to break laws and think they can just cut to the head of the line and feel they deserve privileges for it. That is NOT upholding any laws and is only promoting more illegal activity. And thus only emboldening those doing it if it's not stopped and or/minimized. That is, if America has a backbone left in it.

Excuse me now. I'm gonna cross illegally into Mexico, get busted for it, cry racism, then stomp down the streets of Mexico City with my American flag demanding things and rights from Mexico while I wave my flag above theirs. I'll let you know how that goes. And if it doesn't go well, I'm gonna go to Moscow and do the same thing. And if that doesn't work, I'll be off to Tehran. I'll let you know the results. >_>

 

[HannahP]

What?

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

What?

Read it. Its educational. Basically to sum it up, the Native Americans were stealing each others land way before "the white man" came and stole it from them.

 

[HannahP]

I don't really need any education on the plains bands and tribes. Thanks though.

Justifying racism and xenophobia with a bunch of internet cut and paste is just sad.

 

[Forsaken]

Read it. Its educational. Basically to sum it up, the Native Americans were stealing each others land way before "the white man" came and stole it from them.

Europeans did the same, as did Africans (They also made each other slaves ), as well as Asians and everyone else in the world.

Doesn't make it right .

It was apparent when it it was presented that it was a form of selective racism; if you're attempting to deny it, research the people who were involved. If you need proof that it has increased racism against people of Mexican descent, you can probably find a few hundred articles about it.

 

[David McHenry]

Seems a little extreme, to me. Have to show my passport when I get pulled over? What if the cops all target minority? Hmm. What do you guys think?

It's also federal law that you have to carry these items when you're in the country.

The only thing Arizona did was take a federal offense and turn it into a state crime so they could enforce it since the Government doesn't care about the drain on the economy illegal immigrants have.

Also the law isn't targeted for illegal Mexicans. It just happens that illegal Mexicans make up the largest majority of illegals in that state. It applies to anyone suspected of not being a US citizen, that also means Russians, Dutch people, Egyptians and anyone else.

If you dont like it, then leave.

 

[FreshFroot]

I kinda think you missed my point. I am about the farthest thing from lazy as it comes. LOL
It bothers me only that I'm forced to learn another language just to check out in the grocery store when I feel that if people are going to come to my country, make a life here and find employment, they should learn our native language of "english" here. Not force me to learn their language in order to do everyday things that I have always done, and done by speaking my own native tongue.

This really isn't a big issue for me. I have never even stated my thoughts on this out loud because it's not important to me. It certainly doesn't warrant anyone throwing insults at me. I get that this is a "touchy" subject, but calling someone lazy and throwing insults because of an opinion is something I must have mistakenly assumed was not a part of this community. (guess I was wrong)

Either way, I think it's time I bow out gracefully and exit the conversation. Lesson well learned. I will stay clear of any topics that involve voicing opinions on politics.

My sincere apologies to anyone that may have found my opinion offensive in some way. Although, I'm not sure I understand how it could have been.

And to assure you all I'm not "lazy", I speak english, spanish and french quite fluently.

Since when was my comment insulting? I didn't curse you out. I just stated your point of view could be seen differently.

BTW, for those people moving to your "so called country" may have spoke 1 language eg. Spanish ALL their LIFE.

It isn't easy moving to a new place and learning right away. Try going to China and living there, and then tell me how easy it is..... You will have a tough time too.

This isn't about insulting you at all.. this is about changing your point of view, which i feel is not looking at these immigrants pov.