Do you support the immigration law like Arizona?

[TimeWizardCosmo]

I watch Fox News, the other networks are kinda boring.

Well, that just about explains everything You don't want news, you want Psuedo-Infotainment.

 

[Ruven]

Well, that just about explains everything You don't want news, you want Psuedo-Infotainment.

Tell me where the news is then?
If i watch CNN i might fall asleep, if i watch MSNBC i get annoyed at their smugness and mugging for the camera, with FoxNews i can at least just not watch Hannity since he's batshit insane.
Billo gets a lot of flack from the left, but for the most part he does a real good job. I dont always agree with him, but i dont watch opinion shows because i want them to reinforce my exact views.
Fox and Friends is also horrible, and Glen Beck is like this girl i used to know... somedays she was awesome, other days batshit insane.
The hard news guys on Fox are pretty good though, and Shep Smith is great, one of my favorite guys doing the news right now in America. Judge Nap brings the hard stuff too.

 

[Ruven]

I've had enough of this discussion. Your continued unwarranted personal attacks are disturbing. Nobody lied. It seems you have a difficulty in focusing. Below is what you've quoted:

What does ANY of this have to do with the decision to settle in the US permanently as a naturalized citizen with a legal right to work?

Thin skinned now too?
Funny coming from someone who has been throwing barbs from the get go. I said that you lied when you did. That pales in comparison with all the junk you have been saying.
You have been attacking me for not being a person who respects the law, my "verbosity", (we both know what you are implying with that), ridiculing my points with sarcastic praise, belittling what i say at every turn, continually telling me what i believe even though i explicitly tell you that i believe otherwise, accusing me of insulting jews and blacks... and then you made it all worse by calling me a liberal!

Its ok man, you have supposedly left this discussion a few times now, but you continue coming back. Im guessing now you actually mean it?

We are talking about citizenship rights in the US - not visitor visas, mortgage abuses or Wall Street bailouts. From your emotional rambling, it seems that you're understandably angry about unpunished abuses by a larger number of people. Yes, the law should be applied equally. But the fact that I am powerless to stop the government from enforcing it equally (my taxes bail out Wall Street corruption nor force prosecution of those getting away with the crimes) doesn't give me any license to commit a crime either (run my own Ponzi scheme on innocent people.) A second wrong against innocent people doesn't make a right. My assertion was not that nobody gets special treatment. It was that numerous people of other nationalities don't get special treatment and share the same barriers and plight as Mexican people. They can't get into the US no matter how hard they try. So why should one group get away with jumping the border while others have to play by the rules of the system, even if partially enforced unfairly? They shouldn't. But in your argument, it is furthermore not justifiable to come here expecting me and numerous other honest Americans to foot the bill for their stay and medical care. There isn't enough to go around for people who have a legal right to it.

I'm officially done. I'm not responding. Point made. As a lawyer, you learn to focus on the ultimate issue at hand around other related, difficult but secondary issues. Good luck to you.

All ive done is respond to what you have brought up. You keep up bringing other issues into this and i keep responding to them. Hell i tried to get you to turn back into the original point of this thread, yet even know you seem to want to focus on the broader issue instead of the point raised in the title of the thread. I have no problem with that, but you do it seems, even though you keep doing just that.

And you dont seem to respond to anything, you just bring up more stuff that i then respond to.
When you asked me what i would do i gave you a comprehensive and actually logistically possible plan to deal with the narcotics, crime, smuggling, anchor babies, the border, landed immigrants, and illegal drivers.
Your solution?
As always... nothing. Just the same tired impossible non solutions that can never happen.
The 2 highlights being... "why dont they come here legally", and "deport them all", two things that are equally impossible to do.
You can repeat those two things till you are blue in the face, but those things cannot fix the problem because those things cannot be done.

Nobody ever gets around to explaining how exactly those things could even remotely be possible.

 

[twhiting9275]

Am I in favor of the necessity of this law? No way. Both sides of the aisle have been promising to deal with this problem for how long now? Eventually, something has to be done to protect the state's interest and rights. If the federal government's not going to get out there and do this, then why SHOULDN'T the state be allowed to protect themselves?

Am I in favor of the law? Absolutely. The only thing I'd change about the entire thing? Forget requiring valid ID from individuals whom you 'suspect' of problems, get out there and require it from everyone in interaction with police. Once that ID's received, they can check it against their databases, and go from there. Pretty much problem solved, right? Sadly, most people treat law enforcement officers as someone who is there to simply be given a hard time to. If you've got nothing to hide, why not co-operate instead of making individual's lives harder?

I haven't been to too many other countries myself, but I would imagine that if people gave the police in those countries half as much problem as theyy give the police in this country, you'd get ripped a new one. Try walking around without a valid id/passport/drivers license/etc in a foreign country, see how well that gets ya!

 

[TheLaw]

You have been attacking me for not being a person who respects the law, my "verbosity", (we both know what you are implying with that)...

I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what you think I'm implying other than what I'm saying. I'm not the first person to allude to this nor that you believe that breaking the law is acceptable. I'm writing back because your words make me concerned you appear personally hurt and on the edge. Nobody lied. You should reread people's responses to you and take a moment to think about them. This is a friendly place and it should stay that way. You're entitled to your opinion many of us are wrong but others have echoed similar sentiments. Perhaps reflection is in order in a friendly, productive way.

All ive done is respond to what you have brought up. You keep up bringing other issues into this and i keep responding to them. Hell i tried to get you to turn back into the original point of this thread, yet even know you seem to want to focus on the broader issue instead of the point raised in the title of the thread...Your solution? As always... nothing.

The subject is "do you support the immigration law like Arizona?" If the answer is "yes" then there is no problem to be solved. That's the solution. Since you're saying it isn't, it's up to you to provide a better alternative and I and others don't believe you have. It seems you believe that immigration law unfairly restricts numerous Mexicans who want to walk into the US and get a job and welfare to get started because everyone else does so jumping is acceptable. OK, you're entitled to your opinion, we are at an impasse, let's call an end to this in an amicable fashion. I have and am walking away from discussion with you and probably on this issue.

Am I in favor of the necessity of this law?... The only thing I'd change about the entire thing? Forget requiring valid ID from individuals whom you 'suspect' of problems, get out there and require it from everyone in interaction with police. Once that ID's received, they can check it against their databases, and go from there. Pretty much problem solved, right?

It's a difficult issue I won't expound upon too far. Suffice it to say this - if the law requires 100% of the population to carry IDs but the police then check 95% of people who appear to be of Mexican heritage, there will be a cry of "racial profiling" and million dollar lawsuits against the state. Why are only people who appear to be of Hispanic/Mexican heritage being checked and not a full sampling of the population as is the law? You know why but that isn't good enough to say that, technically, the law is being applied equally against all but only against a selection of the population that happens to appear Mexicans through observation (which is used due to the typical time/cost restraints.) Hence, this law attempts to address the problem specifically. You can discuss it amongst yourselves. Good luck guys, it has been interesting.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

I watch Fox News, the other networks are kinda boring.

This still doesn't account for your canned "Racism, we were here first" responses.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what you think I'm implying other than what I'm saying. I'm not the first person to allude to this nor that you believe that breaking the law is acceptable. I'm writing back because your words make me concerned you appear personally hurt and on the edge. Nobody lied. You should reread people's responses to you and take a moment to think about them. This is a friendly place and it should stay that way. You're entitled to your opinion many of us are wrong but others have echoed similar sentiments. Perhaps reflection is in order in a friendly, productive way.

The subject is "do you support the immigration law like Arizona?" If the answer is "yes" then there is no problem to be solved. That's the solution. Since you're saying it isn't, it's up to you to provide a better alternative and I and others don't believe you have. It seems you believe that immigration law unfairly restricts numerous Mexicans who want to walk into the US and get a job and welfare to get started because everyone else does so jumping is acceptable. OK, you're entitled to your opinion, we are at an impasse, let's call an end to this in an amicable fashion. I have and am walking away from discussion with you and probably on this issue.
It's a difficult issue I won't expound upon too far. Suffice it to say this - if the law requires 100% of the population to carry IDs but the police then check 95% of people who appear to be of Mexican heritage, there will be a cry of "racial profiling" and million dollar lawsuits against the state. Why are only people who appear to be of Hispanic/Mexican heritage being checked and not a full sampling of the population as is the law? You know why but that isn't good enough to say that, technically, the law is being applied equally against all but only against a selection of the population that happens to appear Mexicans through observation (which is used due to the typical time/cost restraints.) Hence, this law attempts to address the problem specifically. You can discuss it amongst yourselves. Good luck guys, it has been interesting.

It makes sense to me. The law effects "Hispanics" because thats the border we share and are having issues with. Its not racisms its Common freakin sense.

 

[twhiting9275]

It makes sense to me. The law effects "Hispanics" because thats the border we share and are having issues with. Its not racisms its Common freakin sense.

Absolutely agreed! Sadly, individuals will pull the racism card any time they get the opportunity though, unfortunately.

 

[Ruven]

Am I in favor of the necessity of this law? No way. Both sides of the aisle have been promising to deal with this problem for how long now? Eventually, something has to be done to protect the state's interest and rights. If the federal government's not going to get out there and do this, then why SHOULDN'T the state be allowed to protect themselves?

Am I in favor of the law? Absolutely. The only thing I'd change about the entire thing? Forget requiring valid ID from individuals whom you 'suspect' of problems, get out there and require it from everyone in interaction with police. Once that ID's received, they can check it against their databases, and go from there. Pretty much problem solved, right? Sadly, most people treat law enforcement officers as someone who is there to simply be given a hard time to. If you've got nothing to hide, why not co-operate instead of making individual's lives harder?

I haven't been to too many other countries myself, but I would imagine that if people gave the police in those countries half as much problem as theyy give the police in this country, you'd get ripped a new one. Try walking around without a valid id/passport/drivers license/etc in a foreign country, see how well that gets ya!

But this is not another country. This is America, and the point of America is that we are different.
Comparing us to others is a disservice to ourselves.
When a cop can pull you over without a legit reason... we have a problem.
You are not even required to fully open your window to a police officer when he pulls you over, and you are allowed to question why you are being pulled over. Cops often use any random excuse to pull you over, and once they have made contact they ask for your license, registration and insurance in order to fish for a violation.
I used to drive a beat up old pickup as my daily driver because i had to drive far and it saved me on gas, i was repeatedly pulled over by "friendly" officers who stopped me to alert me that my back taillight was busted. But in the process he also asks for my information.
I refused, telling him i had done nothing wrong, and that i would fix my tail light, but since it was daylight it was ok. He continued to ask for my information and i declined.
I asked him if i was getting a ticket, and he said no. So i asked if i could leave.
He let me go, but i knew that i was running the chance of being taken in just because i stood up for my rights.

People are not supposed to be harassed for their "papers" in this country. Unless you are breaking the law or suspected of breaking the law, your privacy and anonymity should be respected.
The "if you are innocent then you shouldnt care if they ask for your papers" retort is very illogical.
Would you be ok if cops came to search your house... i mean you have nothing to hide, right?
A cop cant even go into your car unless you give him permission to do so, or unless there is clear and present visible evidence that there is a crime being committed in your car.
If he thinks you are high he cannot look in your car for pot, but if he smells pot or sees a roach clip then he can.

Being brown, poor, or playing a certain kind of music cannot be grounds for being stopped and asked to produce papers.

People need to remember that erosion of these liberties always starts with those at the outskirts of society, but slowly creeps into the mainstream. Eventually cops will be able to pull anyone over without a valid reason. Whats to stop him from saying "i thought that white guy in the Camry was an illegal immigrant from Canada because he had the Canucks/Maple Leafs game blaring from his radio"?

 

[twhiting9275]

He let me go, but i knew that i was running the chance of being taken in just because i stood up for my rights.

No, you ran the risk of being taken in because you acted like a complete and total tool. Like I said, just try talking to any officer in any other country that way. You wouldn't be allowed, but it's ok, because you're American, you have the right to be rude and uncooperative. Apparently it's written in the Constitution somewhere.

 

[kickflip]

It's been "out of control" from the beginning when we ousted the native americans.

Hey now, once we started killing them they pretty much gave it to us.

Anyways, about the law, something has to be done. Where I live there are a lot of 'illegals' and it has a direct effect on the unemployment rate here. Yet they still get state benefits etc...

My solutions:
Harsher penalties on employers that use 'illegals' which would help to keep them from hiring them.

No more 'anchor babies'. If the parents are citizens from another country besides the U.S., their child should also be considered a citizen of that country, not the U.S..

Speed up the process for people to gain U.S. citizenship.

 

[Ruven]

No, you ran the risk of being taken in because you acted like a complete and total tool. Like I said, just try talking to any officer in any other country that way. You wouldn't be allowed, but it's ok, because you're American, you have the right to be rude and uncooperative. Apparently it's written in the Constitution somewhere.

I was a tool, how so?
Im always respectful with the police, ive given money to police for many years, im on theirs and the firemens call list for donations. I give them money and they send me stickers with my name and address for use in my mail. I send money to the blind people too, they send me trash bags, although im not sure how the blind people are able to make the black plastic trashbags being blind and all... but apparently they make them themselves. I use the bags much more than the stamps i get from the cops and firemen these days.
Anyhow, yeah... i dont disrespect cops. And its not just because im a bootlicker, errrr..... i mean respectful of their authority, but because there is no point in being a jerk. At worst its going to piss them off and get you a ticket, and there is nothing positive that can come out of it. Its not like you are going to intimidate the cop, so its just stupid to try and show him up.

BUT... you should not allow your rights to be violated either.
Standing up for your rights without being a jerk about it is not being a complete tool.
Well unless this was a police state.

 

[Ruven]

Hey now, once we started killing them they pretty much gave it to us.

Anyways, about the law, something has to be done. Where I live there are a lot of 'illegals' and it has a direct effect on the unemployment rate here. Yet they still get state benefits etc...

My solutions:
Harsher penalties on employers that use 'illegals' which would help to keep them from hiring them.

No more 'anchor babies'. If the parents are citizens from another country besides the U.S., their child should also be considered a citizen of that country, not the U.S..

Speed up the process for people to gain U.S. citizenship.

Well once you start killing people i would hope they have the will to fight back, right?
Is the logic "hey they fought back so its ok that we attacked them" ?

About the law... you are right. We are suffering and something does need to be done. I agree with everyone who says that. And while i dont agree with how Arizona has gone about doing something, i do understand why they want to do something.

And i agree with everything you said 99%
I wont go 100% because there is a constitutional issue with your solution to the anchor baby problem, but you can work around that. There are ways to intelligently deal with the anchor baby problem without violating our own constitution.

I applaud you actually posting real solutions. Putting the onus on the business that get rich off of using illegal labor is a huge thing that sadly people dont like to talk about.
Its hard to be for big business and be against illegal immigration at the same time, yet most people who are in one of those camps are also in the other... which is kinda mindboggling and hypocritical.

 

[Ruven]

I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what you think I'm implying other than what I'm saying. I'm not the first person to allude to this nor that you believe that breaking the law is acceptable. I'm writing back because your words make me concerned you appear personally hurt and on the edge. Nobody lied. You should reread people's responses to you and take a moment to think about them. This is a friendly place and it should stay that way. You're entitled to your opinion many of us are wrong but others have echoed similar sentiments. Perhaps reflection is in order in a friendly, productive way.

The subject is "do you support the immigration law like Arizona?" If the answer is "yes" then there is no problem to be solved. That's the solution. Since you're saying it isn't, it's up to you to provide a better alternative and I and others don't believe you have. It seems you believe that immigration law unfairly restricts numerous Mexicans who want to walk into the US and get a job and welfare to get started because everyone else does so jumping is acceptable. OK, you're entitled to your opinion, we are at an impasse, let's call an end to this in an amicable fashion. I have and am walking away from discussion with you and probably on this issue.
It's a difficult issue I won't expound upon too far. Suffice it to say this - if the law requires 100% of the population to carry IDs but the police then check 95% of people who appear to be of Mexican heritage, there will be a cry of "racial profiling" and million dollar lawsuits against the state. Why are only people who appear to be of Hispanic/Mexican heritage being checked and not a full sampling of the population as is the law? You know why but that isn't good enough to say that, technically, the law is being applied equally against all but only against a selection of the population that happens to appear Mexicans through observation (which is used due to the typical time/cost restraints.) Hence, this law attempts to address the problem specifically. You can discuss it amongst yourselves. Good luck guys, it has been interesting.

I would never tell someone what to do, but i would suggest you stop retiring from this thread, you are starting to sound like Brett Favre.

"Personally hurt/on the edge", is this how you try to argue in court, by first belittling, then saying you are being insulted, and then painting the other party as emotional and nuts?
This thread was a good 4 or 5 pages long before you stepped into it, and there people disagreed and agreed with each other and nobody (as far as i can recall) took umbrage at anything personally.
If anyone started with the snide comments it was you, just reread our posts, they are dripping with snark and sarcasm. Which is fine, i enjoy that myself quite a bit sometimes.
But nobody said anything about it, that seemed to be your style, so fine.
What was funny was you then getting all butthurt when i started with some sarcastic comments.
Its all good fun man.
This is a serious subject sure, but you shouldnt take an argument on the internet personally.

We all have our own reasons as to why we indulge in this kind of thread. I learn a lot from reading the replies to my posts, and i also learn a lot from my own posts... long winded as they may be.
And we are not at an impasse, we are at a failure to communicate properly.
You continue to take my posts and extract incorrect and misleading meanings to what i say.
Like i said before, either you arent understanding me or you dont want to understand me.

Im trying to understand your and everyone elses points, it helps my process and ultimately teaches me more about my own points.

 

[kickflip]

I would never tell someone what to do, but i would suggest you stop retiring from this thread, you are starting to sound like Brett Favre.

sorry for off topic, but...
lolololol @ Brett Favre - I was glad the day he left Green Bay! Minnesota can have him. Like they say, 'one team's trash, is another team's treasure' or something like that.

 

[whitetigergrowl]

Fact: Even the simplest laws open the door for discrimination. How many that complained about Arizonas law, are complaining about the Federal one for the same reasons? Maybe if the Federal govt. actually followed it's own laws they would be up in arms about that too. But since they aren't, they stay quiet.

If a cop pulls you over for a tail light thats out, even if you're white and he's Mexican-American, he can be racist and try nailing you for other things. It's not usually the matter of the law, but how it's enforced. That cop could just as easily give you a warning.

The fact that Illegal Immigrants think they should be given the same rights as American Citizens is a slap in the face to legal citizens and shows a general disregard to them.They are making it more about themselves.
Illegal Aliens Canvass for Votes in Wash. State

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/22/illegal-aliens-canvass-votes-wash-state/

A few key points from that article:

* When Maria Gianni is knocking on voters' doors, she's not bashful about telling people she is in the country illegally.(1)

* "Immigrants really do matter," Jayapal said. "If we can't vote ourselves, we're gonna knock on doors, or get family members to vote." (2)

* "In order for there to be a change to our broken immigration system," she said, "I believe one has to fight."

* In close elections across the country, the immigrant and minority vote is considered key for candidates, especially Democrats.

--------------------------

Notice the slight of hand between the first 2 copy and pastes. She says she is not bashful about telling people she is in the country illegally. Then in the second copy and paste it goes from 'illegal immigrant' to just 'immigrant'. An immigrant is someone that naturalized legally. An illegal immigrant is someone that hasn't. That slight of hand is what is causing problems. They are trying to downplay and legitimize their illegal actions. Of course immigrants matter. When they are legal citizens and didn't knowingly break laws to get here.

"Our broken immigration system."?. Our? She's not an American citizen. She is not here legally. It's not her system to worry about. Maybe she should go back where she came from and fix the problems there first before trying to criticize the system here. She is trying to just sway it more in her and other illegals favor than the American Citizens favor.

That last part is the part that tells me to vote anything but Democrat. While other groups may not always be much better, I'll go for the lesser of 2 evils. As they are promoting more illegal activity and racism by pandering more to specific groups of people rather than Americans as a whole regardless of ethnic origin. It shows a level of racism that is worrisome. When it becomes about the 'Hispanic, Asian, Black, etc.' vote, then racism is being done and is helping create more racism. It should be about Americans in general. Not specific groups of people based on ethnic origin. You can't say that you are against racism, then turn around and pander to specific ethnic groups. Telling them what they want to hear, rather than how it should be for everyone and not just a specific group of people.

If Bush would have said while in office, "Whites, you need to get out there and vote.....", Dems and other groups would have strung him out to dry and cried racism. But if Obama says, "Blacks, you need to get out there and vote.....", those same people seem to be ok with that. Again, that is worrisome. More worrisome is when those same parties sell out American Citizens as a whole, just to gain a certain ethnic vote. It's become more about the vote and them just staying in power than it has about the actual American Citizens as a whole. Pandering to specific ethnic groups is the worst thing the govt. can do. Regardless of which one is the largest one or one the fastest growing ones in the U.S..

The fact they are flaunting the fact they are here illegally and are trying to weaken our laws so more illegals can come here, is disturbing. More disturbing is the fact that they are also now trying to sway elections more in their favor than the American Citizens favor. During the Obama Candidacy it was made known that people from overseas in other countries were using programs such as Skype to call American Citizens to try and sway votes in Obamas favor. This trend is disturbing to say the least. And now illegals are trying to sway the vote? Where will this end?

I guess in America it's not about laws or if you are legal. It's about your ethnic origin and if you need the votes. Gee, no wonder America is a 'gimme' society. Gimme something in return and you'll get my vote. If you don't, you're racist.

If I came into your home illegally and started screaming things like racist and other stuff because you wouldn't let me into your home, even though you had 'No Trespassing' and other warning signs signs at the sidewalk, how would you respond? I just barge in, regardless of the signs, and start taking over the house and making demands, what would you do? Then flaunt the fact I came into your house illegally. How would you respond? It's happening right now.

The fact they are knowingly breaking the law, knowingly flaunting that fact, and knowingly trying to sway lawmakers into their illegal immigrant corner by swaying the votes, makes a mockery out of every legal American Citizen and this govt.. And they know it. They know it's weak. And when lawmakers and govt. try to enforce the law, then it becomes a 'racist' issue.

Sad, pathetic, and a totally mockery of every legal citizen and the govt..

 

[whitetigergrowl]

But this is not another country. This is America, and the point of America is that we are different.

"Being different doesn't mean much really. Germany is different from Japan. Japan is different from Iran. But in the end they all have laws and rules that are to be followed or you face the consequences. America is no different. Being different doesn't mean everyone should be able to do everything whenever and however they want."

Comparing us to others is a disservice to ourselves.

"How? Sometimes it's for the best. I see nothing wrong with it. Do you compare cars? Do you compare cell phones? Do you compare clothes? Comparing is an ok thing to do. Depending in what context it's being done of course."

When a cop can pull you over without a legit reason... we have a problem.

"I've lost count of how many times I've seen cops pull people over what didn't seem like a legit reason. I could be a cop and pull you for he slightest infraction, then after pulling you over try and find a bigger reason to haul you in. I may not find it this time, but sooner or later I likely will. This happens ALL OVER the world. Every day. But it seems each person has their own idea of what a 'legit reason' is. Fact is though, the law is the law. Doesn't matter if you like it or don't agree with it. If you break it, you pay the consequences. This applies to most every country."

You are not even required to fully open your window to a police officer when he pulls you over, and you are allowed to question why you are being pulled over. Cops often use any random excuse to pull you over, and once they have made contact they ask for your license, registration and insurance in order to fish for a violation.

"YOU may not think there was a reason. But believe me, many times there are valid reasons. Maybe you match the description of someone they are looking for. Or maybe your actions are suspicious. Whatever the case, in most cases there is more of a valid reason than you think. Then again, I have yet to see some officers of any race NOT be guilty of this. I'm white. I could get pulled over by a black cop for what I think is a minor infraction, and he nails me for something else. This applies to ANY COLOR. It's not limited to one ethnic group. Does that mean he was doing his job and enforcing the law no matter how pathetic I thought it was, or was he being racist? Hmmmm....."

I used to drive a beat up old pickup as my daily driver because i had to drive far and it saved me on gas, i was repeatedly pulled over by "friendly" officers who stopped me to alert me that my back taillight was busted. But in the process he also asks for my information.
I refused, telling him i had done nothing wrong, and that i would fix my tail light, but since it was daylight it was ok. He continued to ask for my information and i declined.
I asked him if i was getting a ticket, and he said no. So i asked if i could leave.
He let me go, but i knew that i was running the chance of being taken in just because i stood up for my rights.

"This is a very shallow argument and would likely not be held up in court. The fact is, if it's against the law to have a broken tail light for any reason where you are at, no matter how small or pathetic you thought the law was, it's the law and the officer was enforcing it. Asking for your information is something most every cop I have ever seen across the U.S. is something standard that is asked for to prove your identity and ownership of the vehicle and if you have insurance. You have the right to refuse him. But he also has the right to do what he was doing to uphold the law. Doesn't matter if you liked it or not. The law is the law. It affects everyone, not just you. I'm 100% positive you weren't the only one this has happened to in the U.S.. How you found any of this offensive when it's pretty standard fare is beyond me.

You can stand up for what YOU deem are your rights. But your assumed rights are usually overruled by the law. Unless it falls under the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Which in this case it wouldn't have. The officer was following the law and from the sounds of it had no other intentions but to inform you of the broken tail light. If you don't comply with an officers demands (look it up) they could have hauled you off. Especially if you started getting combative. IMO, YOU were the one over-reacting on this one. The officer was not out of line and seemed to of handled it well."

People are not supposed to be harassed for their "papers" in this country. Unless you are breaking the law or suspected of breaking the law, your privacy and anonymity should be respected.
The "if you are innocent then you shouldnt care if they ask for your papers" retort is very illogical.
Would you be ok if cops came to search your house... i mean you have nothing to hide, right?
A cop cant even go into your car unless you give him permission to do so, or unless there is clear and present visible evidence that there is a crime being committed in your car.
If he thinks you are high he cannot look in your car for pot, but if he smells pot or sees a roach clip then he can.

Being brown, poor, or playing a certain kind of music cannot be grounds for being stopped and asked to produce papers.

"You are taking this beyond what the Arizona Law and even Federal Law are saying. You are fueling a hysteria that isn't even there. Adding stuff that isn't even there. And almost wanting to create a society with no laws. Or laws that are easier on illegal immigrants. How do I know, as a white person, that if I live in the 'Mexican' side of town, that I won't be subjected to racism. That Mexican-American cops won't harass me because I'm white. This is a 2 way street ya know. And if you're here legally, whats wrong with being able to give proof of residency? Plenty of other countries do it that way and you aren't complaining about them. A few links for you. Read and learn. :

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...fted-immigration-law-in-Arizona-92136104.html

http://staugustine.com/opinions/201...l-immigrants-create-far-reaching-consequences

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/restarea.asp

"

People need to remember that erosion of these liberties always starts with those at the outskirts of society, but slowly creeps into the mainstream. Eventually cops will be able to pull anyone over without a valid reason. Whats to stop him from saying "i thought that white guy in the Camry was an illegal immigrant from Canada because he had the Canucks/Maple Leafs game blaring from his radio"?

"Yep. And having illegal immigrants that are showing no respect for the laws of that countries lands aren't helping either. They are also eroding that countries freedoms by trying to mold those freedoms in their favor and eroding the legal citizens freedoms away from them by using such classic tactics as racism, fear, and paranoia. Cops can pull you over for any reason in any part of the world. Even if the reason is stupid. But wait, if your Mexican, and you get pulled over in Mexico because of your broken tail light and they ask for your info there, is it racist then? Or only when it's a white cop doing it that racism occurs? Hmmm.....


When you have a group of people coming into your country that shows no respect for it's laws, it's legal citizens, and is only demanding what they want from that country and it's people, and trumpet that they are here illegally and there is nothing you can do about it, then something is horribly wrong. Not just with the system if they allow it, but the people doing such brazen actions. Especially when they are screaming racism and any other card they can to try and fundamentally change the way the system works, so it works more in their favor than anyone elses.

I promise you this though. The drug cartels are stirring a dangerous pot on the border. If the violence escalates into the U.S. much more than it is now, something will be done about it. I see a point in the near future where the border will have some sort of U.S. militarization in response, or with the approval of Mexico, the U.S. crosses into Mexico to push back the violence and cartels.

Illegal Immigrants are demanding the same rights as legal citizens. Fire is being played with. I see nothing good coming of this. Especially if they keep trying to fundamentally transform American Rules and Laws to benefit them over the citizens. Americans WILL fight back. At that point the racism card being pulled at the drop of a hat will have worn out it's welcome.

Which brings me to another point. Because some people and ethnic groups are using it on almost everything nowadays, people are growing numb to it. It's actually having a minimizing effect and for those cases where racism really did occur, they aren't being taken as seriously. People are growing numb to it because of it's abuse on everything.

Show me countries where illegal immigration has benefited them, especially long term. Not legal immigration, but ILLEGAL immigration. It's to a point now in Europe that Europe is fighting back. The U.S. is heading that same route right now.

And the fact some people are trying to confuse people by calling it just immigration rather than what it is, illegal immigration, shows that even they know what they are doing is against the law and wrong. If you have to do slight of hand tricks like that try and deceive the people, then what you are doing is horrible wrong. As immigration and illegal immigration are 2 different things. Muddying the waters purposely shows the deception at play."

My responses are in bold.