Do you support the immigration law like Arizona?

[Mattie Num Nums]

Nothing like stirring the political pot ey? hahahhaa

 

[Laric]

Man these threads are so totally suitable for this web site!

You hit the head of the nail with this one.

 

[jmurrayhead]

It's off-topic...who cares? As long as all opinions/views are represented tastefully, I don't see a problem with it.

 

[Hannah_M]

Nope, as it's just going after a symptom not the cause. More short term thinking.

Same.

 

[Ruven]

In the Netherlands everybody has to have photo id on them at any time for when an authority asks for it - without provocation when they do random search. Or something like that. You get fined if you get pulled over for no reason (or a reason) and can't show ID.

In the US you do not have to show your papers unless you have been caught committing a crime or have to enter an area where your identification is important.
That is the law.
The interpretation has always been something else though.
Ive was walking home from playing basketball one day and stopped by an officer who asked for my ID.
I told him that i never took my wallet with me to the park because it can get stolen, and i dont like playing ball with my wallet on me. So no ID.
He said that if i could not show an ID that he would need to take me into the station to properly identify me using my fingerprints.
I was cuffed, put in the back of a squad car, and taken to local lockup for 6 hours.
Was released from jail at 3AM on a cold winter morning, with no money, phone, and miles from my house, wearing nothing but a sweaty t-shirt and shorts.
And it was legally ok because i wasnt arrested, just detained in order to be identified.
Thats how the police circumvent the law when they want to.
And Arizona has always done this as a way to check on folks they suspect may be illegal.
Except since there has always been some backlash over this interpretation of federal laws they have decided to make a more narrowly defined state law that allows them to do the same thing they have always done... but without leaving room for people to have a legal complaint.

 

[Ruven]

I'm just aggravated that I'm being forced to learn a 2nd and 3rd language just to be able to communicate in public at the grocery store or in wal-mart in my own native country.

You are aggravated at having to learn Spanish in a country that is named in Spanish, which has a very large part of its states and major cities named in Spanish, has a great amount of Spanish speaking people who trace their American lineage to before English was the official language, and whose previous rulers were mostly Spanish?
Im guessing the other language is some sort of Asian language, most likely Chinese. Well get used to it, because not only are they an immigration issue, they also own most of the west coast real estate and are buying up more and more of it as we speak.
Chinese interests own a lot of the US (in more ways than just real estate and business im afraid), so its time we start getting with the program.

 

[Ruven]

They don't require a passport only a photo ID. Every state in the country require a drivers license! Have you ever tried to cash a check without an ID? I don't see the problem. If you are illegal, you should pay the price with a bus ride to your real country.

Dont confused a driving license with an ID.
They just happen to be issued by the same department by convenience.
If the Fed ID act goes through you will be getting them at the Post Office... and you wont be calling it your Mailing License.

 

[Ruven]

oh, don't get me wrong, I love learning new languages and interacting with people in a new way, but it bugs me that I HAVE to learn 'em just to be able to shop in my local stores or check in to a hotel. Not to mention being passed up for a job because the other lady knew 2 other languages fluently. I just wish things were more simple. I'm a creature of habit I guess. That can be a bad thing sometimes.

So you got passed for a job because the other lady was more qualified?
Yeah, that sucks.

 

[Ruven]

I don't like that there are people living here illegally, not paying taxes like everyone else, but still enjoying many of our benefits. However, have you seen what it takes to become a citizen? I couldn't pass the test if I had to and I've lived here all my life.

As far as the OP's question, I'm ok with that, sorry.

Thats a myth.
Most illegals pay taxes.
The vast majority do.
They pay taxes on jobs that pay very little, so they normally are in line to receive nice tax checks when they do their taxes.
But since most illegals do not want to rock the boat/risk setting off any red flags... they rarely file a tax return. And thats where they "illegals dont pay taxes" bit comes from.
They dont file a tax return means the government gets to keep a lot of money that they were supposed to return at the end of the year.

 

[Hannah_M]

I'm just aggravated that I'm being forced to learn a 2nd and 3rd language just to be able to communicate in public at the grocery store or in wal-mart in my own native country.

Would you rather live under a rock?

 

[Ruven]

I think its a great law. I live in Southern California and my ex g/fs brother was murdered by an undocumented alien who killed him and ran south. It happens a lot here. Also, tons of people get in car accidents with illegals and there is nothing you can do about it. I don't have any problem showing an officer my ID and going along my merry way. The problem is people throw the race card around so much in the US that everything is racists now.

On a side note I agree with the statement about taxes. Also illegals collecting welfare enrages me. I pay alone almost $2000 dollars a month in taxes.

Another myth.
I was in a car accident with an illegal.
He offered to pay for the damages out of his pocket because he didnt have insurance, being illegal and all he could not get the insurance, that is a flaw in the system.
My insurance company though was ready to pay for the damage.
A police report would have to be filed if my insurance picked up the bill though, and that would cause the man who hit me to be fined nearly 2k dollars for not having insurance and not having a license, plus be put in jail for a time and possibly get him red flagged for deportation.

How can someone talk about the ethics and morality of people who break the law to get into this country, and then turn around and not have any ethical or moral understanding of how turning this man in would wreck his life and his family?

We worked it out, he paid me 1000 dollars for the damage to my car, i called my agent and told him not to process the claim, and it all worked out just fine. For everyone.

 

[jmurrayhead]

Thats a myth.
Most illegals pay taxes.
The vast majority do.
They pay taxes on jobs that pay very little, so they normally are in line to receive nice tax checks when they do their taxes.
But since most illegals do not want to rock the boat/risk setting off any red flags... they rarely file a tax return. And thats where they "illegals dont pay taxes" bit comes from.
They dont file a tax return means the government gets to keep a lot of money that they were supposed to return at the end of the year.

I have worked on jobs that payed very little, and my tax checks "income tax return?" were not nice in the least bit. Now, I'm not denying your claims above, but where do you get this information from? As far as the government getting to keep a lot of the money they were supposed to return? They're also not getting any of the tax money that they would otherwise return a small portion of at the end of the year. You know, money that goes towards transportation, education, etc?

 

[Ruven]

I have worked on jobs that payed very little, and my tax checks "income tax return?" were not nice in the least bit. Now, I'm not denying your claims above, but where do you get this information from? As far as the government getting to keep a lot of the money they were supposed to return? They're also not getting any of the tax money that they would otherwise return a small portion of at the end of the year. You know, money that goes towards transportation, education, etc?

If you earn very little then your the check you get back will also be very little, specially if you are single.
It all depends on your bracket.
But someone making above the poverty threshold should get a nice little check of money back at the end of the year. More if they have children as there is an added kicker if you have them.
Obviously if you make more than a certain amount you do not get any money back, on the contrary you must pay another chunk of money more than what was already taken out of you by your employer.
But illegal immigrants who use a fake social security number or who used a Taxpayer Identification Number DO pay taxes with every paycheck they receive. Their employers do take Social Security and the other taxes out of the illegal immigrants paycheck and send it to the government.

This country runs on cheap illegal labor, specially in the south, most specifically in Texas.
Everyone knows that they use illegal labor, but its all "legal" from the corporations POV because they ask their employees to show them a Social Security card... which is usually sold around the corner from whatever plant they are working at.
Its all a game of turn-a-blind-eye... our economy would plummet even more if these companies could not do this.
I love to BBQ, but the vast majority of labor employees in the beef industry are illegal aliens... and if you get rid of them my steaks are going to get really expensive.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

How can someone talk about the ethics and morality of people who break the law to get into this country, and then turn around and not have any ethical or moral understanding of how turning this man in would wreck his life and his family?.

Because him damaging my car when its ILLEGAL AGAINST THE LAW to drive without insurance forcing me to find a way to repair it isn't damaging my life. Seems to be a pattern. Break the law once and keep breaking it and rely on excuses from apologists while I suffer.

 

[Ruven]

Because him damaging my car when its ILLEGAL AGAINST THE LAW to drive without insurance forcing me to find a way to repair it isn't damaging my life. Seems to be a pattern. Break the law once and keep breaking it and rely on excuses from apologists while I suffer.

How would you feel if the law said that XenForo was violating the law in using Internet Brands owned intellectual property?
There are a lot of laws... so what?
Smoking pot is against the law, yet i can show you plenty of big pot farms that are incorporated as businesses here in California. All without the cops doing anything to stop them... even though its illegal.
Driving with no insurance is not a habit of illegal immigrants, all sorts of people who are citizens drive without insurance. The big difference being that these citizens drive without insurance by choice, while illegals drive without insurance because they are not allowed to purchase insurance without a license, which the state wont give them... although many years ago they did.

 

[Forsaken]

Just putting in a quick comment; this law harms legal residents and alienates them from the community, where much of the time they have already seen abuse at the hands of the police (One of the people who was the strongest supporter, if not the main reason for it passing is not shy in voicing his opinion on certain ethnic backgrounds).

While illegal immigration is a problem, this really does nothing because people who are doing illegal things, and who do not legally belong in the country usually keep themselves fairly well under radar.

Notice, there have been no drug busts either? That was one of their reasons for passing it, due to the large amounts of drugs that come in through Mexico through illegal immigrants.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

How would you feel if the law said that XenForo was violating the law in using Internet Brands owned intellectual property?
There are a lot of laws... so what?
Smoking pot is against the law, yet i can show you plenty of big pot farms that are incorporated as businesses here in California. All without the cops doing anything to stop them... even though its illegal.
Driving with no insurance is not a habit of illegal immigrants, all sorts of people who are citizens drive without insurance. The big difference being that these citizens drive without insurance by choice, while illegals drive without insurance because they are not allowed to purchase insurance without a license, which the state wont give them... although many years ago they did.

You are missing the point. The point is they broke the law in the first place and in order to stay afloat they need to break more laws. Do it the right way. My family came here from Korea in the 50's and did it the right way.

 

[Forsaken]

You are missing the point. The point is they broke the law in the first place and in order to stay afloat they need to break more laws. Do it the right way. My family came here from Korea in the 50's and did it the right way.

Most of the people effected by the law are people who are not legal, and they are being outright stereotyped now.

I know of one person who got pulled over for coming off an offramp one mile over the speed limit because he was mexican, and he was clearly slowing down at the time.

 

[Ruven]

Very true Forsaken.
Im a Republican, and i detest any system that forces anyone in this country to have to identify themselves or fear prosecution.
There has to be reasonable doubt to a crime, and if the crime is illegal immigration then the reasonable doubt has no limit.
Cops could stop any random white person and ask for their identification because they could be an immigrant from England on an overstayed visa. So then "reasonable doubt" would mean nothing as anyone in the country could theoretically fall under its auspices.
So the cops by nature will instead selectively enforce reasonable doubt on brown people who look poor, as being poor and being brown are the two main prerequisites of an illegal alien.
And while racial profiling is as common by police as entrapment... it would suck even more if it was sanctioned and made legal.

 

[Ruven]

You are missing the point. The point is they broke the law in the first place and in order to stay afloat they need to break more laws. Do it the right way. My family came here from Korea in the 50's and did it the right way.

My parents came here legally in the 50's and 60's too.
My mom not only came here legally, she emigrated legally.
Dad came here legally, but overstayed his visa and became an illegal.
The far majority of people who claim to come here legally are also actually illegal after they fail to go back home.
Just because you came here legally does not make you any less illegal.

Do you know the right way of how to come here legally today?
Its 100% an impossibility for the vast majority of people.